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i just bought a 99 f250 at copart with 169k on it....was wrecked lightly in the right front, not that bad though....anyway, i got it fixed and am having trouble starting it....turn the key on, light comes on and goes out like it should(i'm not new to these trucks), crank it over and it just wont start..cranks for 10 to 15 seconds and it will finally start if you hold your foot on the accelorator(not sure if that actually helped or not)..when it starts, it runs fine, no romp or smoke...where do i need to start? batteries seem to be up to par as it cranks like crazy...i have another 99 with a hole in the piston/blowby like a freight train and it starts better than this one:hehe: its also 98+ degrees outside here so i'm thinking it shouldn't have any trouble at all starting....after it starts, let it run for alittle while and shut it off...go to start it again and its the same thing again....you would think if it was fuel bowl draining out or hpop res not full(after sitting) it would start right back up after just shutting it off
 

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I have an early 99 F350 w/ 7.3L Powerstroke. I assume yours is the same. You didn't say. I have had my truck since March. It has 197K on it. Starts like a charm. It sounds to me as if the glow plugs are getting weak. But its warm out so that may not be it at all. The other direction would be the high pressure pump output. perhaps the fuel filter is clogged. Its on top of the engine in the valley. In order for these engines to start they need to produce high enough pressure in the High press pump to inject fuel into the cylinders. So you turn on the ign. which starts the electric fuel pump between the tank and engine (among other things). This feeds the high pressure pump which is mechanically connected to the crankshaft. It will not work until the engine is turning over fast enough to produce the need psi.

I learned tons on these trucks by this website and also POWERSTROKEHELP.COM - The Information Source for Ford Power Stroke Diesel Owners & Mechanics and Home of EDAS® "Engine Damage Avoidance System" for Powerstroke Diesel Trucks some folks on here don't like this guy but I found the videos he has very enlightening.

Good luck.
 

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update, i checked the hpop res and it was right where it needs to be, checked the fuel filter and it was full also....i cranked it without touching the gas and it cranked for along time but finally started. let it run for about a min and shut it off, cranked it again and it started pretty good/fast but still didnt start/sound as good as my other 99 with the blown piston:dunno:
 

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A diesel will never start like a gasser. A full fuel filter canister does not mean the delivery is right. Take off the inlet line and put it in a jar or something then turn on the key to see if the flow is good. Its a very rough test but would give you an idea of how much fuel is being delivered to the hpop. Mine turns over for a 2-3 seconds before it starts every time. Never will it be like a gasser that seems to start with just a touch on the starter. Its just how a diesel works.
I just reread your original post 10- 15 seconds is way too long. If its your hpop its going to be big $'s.

If you are a do-it-yourselfer then I suggest this
POWERSTROKEHELP.COM - The Information Source for Ford Power Stroke Diesel Owners

He sells videos on what to look for in no start situation. IF/When I have trouble with my truck I am going to start here
 

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Ok let's see here first I thought that fuel pumps are cam driven not crank driven and the 7.3l and 6.0 use heui injection which is oil runs through electronic injectors. So with that also with the glow plugs they are not going to affect your starting unless its cold your thinking an idi such has a pre combustion chamber and need glow plugs. You said when it does start there is no smoke hmmm how is your oil if its clogged it will take injectors a long time to fire and codes popping also which light are you talking bout that goes out comes on and goes out come on again
 

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Pull your icp sensor and see if it starts and runs better also check and see if there us oil on the plug
 

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I have an early 99 F350 w/ 7.3L Powerstroke. I assume yours is the same. You didn't say. I have had my truck since March. It has 197K on it. Starts like a charm. It sounds to me as if the glow plugs are getting weak. But its warm out so that may not be it at all. The other direction would be the high pressure pump output. perhaps the fuel filter is clogged. Its on top of the engine in the valley. In order for these engines to start they need to produce high enough pressure in the High press pump to inject fuel into the cylinders. So you turn on the ign. which starts the electric fuel pump between the tank and engine (among other things). This feeds the high pressure pump which is mechanically connected to the crankshaft. It will not work until the engine is turning over fast enough to produce the need psi.

I learned tons on these trucks by this website and also POWERSTROKEHELP.COM - The Information Source for Ford Power Stroke Diesel Owners & Mechanics and Home of EDAS® "Engine Damage Avoidance System" for Powerstroke Diesel Trucks some folks on here don't like this guy but I found the videos he has very enlightening.

Good luck.
A diesel will never start like a gasser. A full fuel filter canister does not mean the delivery is right. Take off the inlet line and put it in a jar or something then turn on the key to see if the flow is good. Its a very rough test but would give you an idea of how much fuel is being delivered to the hpop. Mine turns over for a 2-3 seconds before it starts every time. Never will it be like a gasser that seems to start with just a touch on the starter. Its just how a diesel works.
I just reread your original post 10- 15 seconds is way too long. If its your hpop its going to be big $'s.

If you are a do-it-yourselfer then I suggest this
POWERSTROKEHELP.COM - The Information Source for Ford Power Stroke Diesel Owners

He sells videos on what to look for in no start situation. IF/When I have trouble with my truck I am going to start here
Ok let's see here first I thought that fuel pumps are cam driven not crank driven and the 7.3l and 6.0 use heui injection which is oil runs through electronic injectors. So with that also with the glow plugs they are not going to affect your starting unless its cold your thinking an idi such has a pre combustion chamber and need glow plugs. You said when it does start there is no smoke hmmm how is your oil if its clogged it will take injectors a long time to fire and codes popping also which light are you talking bout that goes out comes on and goes out come on again
Pull your icp sensor and see if it starts and runs better also check and see if there us oil on the plug


OK, first off, the fuel pump on the rail, electrically driven, not crank driven; of the truck provides around 50-60 psi of fuel to the fuel bowl, on top pf the engine, and it has a regulatoor on the return line back to the tank.....

the low pressure(engine) oil pump) is crank driven, and provides oil for the engine and the resivior of the high pressure pump.

the HPOP(high pres. pump) provides 500 PSI of cranking oil pressure to the injector plungers to open them up to fire fuel into the cylinders. when running and under load, the HPOP provides 2000-3000PSI of pressure to the injectors.

pull the ICP wire plug, on the drivers side front of the head, and see if it runs. its a sensor thats screwed into the top of the front of the head. white plug. you can unscrew it and see if theres oil in it... could be IPR, which is the regulator for the HPOP. if its stuck closed it wont open.

how is your fuel filter? needs to be changed at least every 10k miles. I do mine on every oil change. (5k)
you can unscrew the fuel bowl top, and either drain out the fuel in it by the yellow handled valve on the back of it or by sucking fuel out of it. put top on, and cycle key. see if the pump fills the bowl.

thats a good place to start...
 

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Thanks for setting things straight HVAC SuperTech. I'm a HVAC tech too...

Isn't there a safety in there that does not allow the engine to run if the engine oil is low? Perhaps (allbeit dopey) check the dipstick to see if the oil is low.

Thanks for your service USNAVYAD!!! great truck. Mine was a company truck which had a power liftgate (now removed) so they added an extra leaf spring in the back. Its a bit jacked up in back.

Mine just turned 198K
 

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Yes, if the engine oil is too low(not showing on the dipstick) then the truck wont run. Thats the safety. If theres not enough oil, then the hpop wont have enough pressure to open the injectors.

Sent from my Acer Android Tablet
 

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Discussion Starter #10
checked the oil and it was just down to the add mark so i dont think thats the problem...is there any way to check the hpop?
 

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Allen key inspection hole on top of the hpop
 

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You have to have it on a good scanner to check icp. You can check the level of oil in the resivior with that allen screw removed. It won't necessarily check the hpop though.
 

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I know I sound like a broken record. But powerstrokehelp .com is the resource I would suggest for troubleshooting yourself. OR askanexpert.com is another resource. I know there are probably experts on this website too. I used the service with very good results on my 94' F250 and my wifes VW. They are very responsive and you can ask all the dumb questions you want for a whole month only $15 bucks or so
 

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I went searching for you (and me) as stated my truck has 198K on on it so I may be seeing the same issues soon enough.

I found this at this website:
Ford Powerstroke HPOP Fuel System

Ford Powerstroke HPOP Fuel System
This to me is fascinating as I've been getting to the bottom of an oil leak in the HPOP of a 7.3 Powerstroke Superduty I bought yesterday. I thought I would relay all that I learned for the purpose of ExPo and the idea of international travel and general reliability with particularly higher mileage (150K+) International Powerstroke 7.3, not running into issues, and what spare parts to carry.

Basically, low pressure fuel is supplied to all injectors which are controlled for ignition by the computer. Like all diesels huge amounts of fuel pressure are required at the injectors for combustion. In the post-mechanical pump electronically controlled era, this is often this is done through a high pressure common rail with 2500-3000 psi of fuel and again the injectors are actuated by an electronic system. In the case of the Powerstroke it uses an auxilary (basically a second) oil pump high pressure system called the HPOP ("high pressure oil pump") that pushes even thousands of lbs of high pressure oil in a braided stainless steel line that reaches the injectors. The oil is never introduced into the fuel itself of course, it's kept entirely separate but used to punch in the fuel at the injector, like a hammer, when the injector is opened by the computer. The oil pressure revs up and down according to load and RPMs, and the pump itself is gear driven.

It's my understanding that this system came with the 7.3 Powerstrokes as soon as 1994. The Super Duties were introduced in 1999 and in 1999.5 they made a mid-year change (which I believe started in manufacturing month 1/99 --??) and went to a higher outpup HPOP and a larger turbo among other small features with the new heavier Superduties including the Excursion. The 1999.5 changes went through early 2003 when they switched to the 6.0 so basically 1999.5 to 2002 at least are pretty much mechanically identical. Generally a 1999.5 system or later is considered superior system if you are considering a 1999 model year though the differences are minimal but early 1999 parts are rarer. Also, a 1999.5 HPOP itself bolts up just fine so its preferred to use a later one if replacing the HPOP itself. A good indicator on 1999 model years is the location of the Powerstroke badge. If its on the fender then its an early model though some early models also have the door badge as well supposedly. I'll find the link for more info about this as well. I know made 1/99 or later is considered a '99.5' in my case mine is a 4/99 so its definitely a 99.5.

I came across some great links about all this and the documentation on Powerstrokes is simply astounding from the online communities, among the best I've seen. I wish I still had them open and again there's so much information it's hard to find. I'll try to find them again and will post them.

The system is full diagnosable via common electronic diagnostics equipment. So in theory you can hook up a computer and see what's going on before you were to leave for a trip. Like most diesels it can also have some major issues like low HPOP pressure or other factors and you wouldn't totally know it because the truck still runs well that can be revealed by the diagnostics. Also diagnosing without it is difficult for example 3rd world countries and/or if their own powerstrokes are different in their fuel delivery systems (which is often the case in general with vehicles related to different emissions laws).

In general I think for any expedition or long term trip I would definitely recommend beforehand: 1) Checking of the HPOP via diagnostics and specifically replacing the o-rings and the high pressure fuel line disconnects. There is also a supposedly "unserviceable" (which is incorrect) plug at the bottom with the o-ring. ((I currently believe this could be my leak source)). You can service these in probably 40 min to an hour other than the plug at the bottom where you need to remove the entire HPOP to get access. I would also preventative replace the IPR (injection pressure regulator) and the ICP sensor (injection control pressure sensor) which are both common wear parts.

And then 2) test injectors and/or preventative replacement depending on mileage/wear... Most full diesel injection places can test injectors for about $40 each for spray pattern and full electronic functionality. Injectors last a couple hundred thousand miles easily usually so it depends on the mileage and use of the vehicle... 3) You might as well test compression while you're there as well.

While you're there, 3) glow plugs and then 4) glow plug relays at the top of the engine (only $20 each at Napa) which are more-often the culprit than the glow plugs despite the costmetic appearance that they are working well. This is discussed heavily in "my truck won't start" sections of thedieselstop.com and powerstroke.org. This is particularly more important if exploring to colder areas.

EDIT: 5) Have a specialist cosmetically inspect the turbo for play and wear. Possibly make a determination on the age/wear of your turbo and you may want to preventatively maintain it (mostly the seals). If I were to pull the turbo myself from Gillett Diesel in SLC (a famous diesel center) a full rebuild of the turbo assuming all the old parts are usable would be only $300. Or probably about $1200-$1500 to have a shop do it...

EDIT: and finally, 6) the Crank Position Sensor. This is important as it is a common break part and Ford even did a recall on most 7.3 Super Duties as well. I was planning to have my open recall completed and see if they would give me the old one as a spare or just buy a spare as they are only supposedly $25-$30 or so.

On the mechanic scale of all of this stuff I'd call it about 4-5 banana possibly for understanding and common sense though none of it is particularly difficult to understand and if you've ever changed an injector or a high pressure fuel line (like I was in college out of necessity on a '83 Volvo wagon) then you could do these jobs easily. The area is tight and all this is a messy job in general because of the oil and fuel all over the place. Factor in about $200 for each injector replacement and about $30-50 in gaskets. I'm not sure what the injector o-rings run though I plan to replace all these at the same time as well and can report later on cost. There are 6 or so o-rings per injector supposedly.

Servicing and/or replacement for all of this at diesel labor and cost rates is $15000-$3000 so quite expensive I'd figure. The truck I bought had a cheaper servicing with used parts (that are currently causing my own problems) at about $1000. I'll be doing all of this for a cost of $200 tomorrow in parts only (1 leaking injector, a $28 viton o-ring gasket kit). It helps considerably to be able to do this work yourself.

Basically the powerstrokes are good and reliable particularly the 7.3. But all of these little parts are a PITA and they are common problems on all of them in a matter of time if your Powerstroke starts to reach 200K miles or longer. I'm unsure if its the same system in 6.0 and later Powerstrokes, this is for you to find out.

The biggest thing is preventative replacing the o-rings in the HPOP. Because the oil is so high pressure, when it fails it really fails and oil goes everywhere and your vehicle is rendered useless. This happened to me last evening related to the used HPOP they installed. The seals are rubber originally but the replacement o rings are viton and last indefinitely. So it's not a matter "if" but "when" on Powerstokes, much like their transmissions through 2002 as well. Also as mentioned Ford/International claims the bottom plug is "unserviceable" so they are tossing perfectly good $800 HPOPs because they aren't aware how to replace them by using a part from another close cousin International fuel system. I'll post part numbers below. The HPOP itself is also considered tremendously reliable (gear driven oil pump). But if you have to replace one used is often fine enough but a few companies sell something called an "adrenaline" that puts out even higher pressures and is basically a fully reman HPOP that is cheaper and probably just as reliable.

And finally I would suggest particularly in any international areas at least bring an injector or two or probably all 8, a spare IPR and ICP sensor, and the gasket kit in addition to the slightly rare International part for the non-servicable plug on the bottom of the HPOP. And then the usuals like preventative fuel and air filter and a couple spares of each as well.


Cheers,
Andre


•O ring gasket kit for HPOP fittings: KIT SE PMP HYD (HPOP O-rings fitting repair kit w/sealant) Includes Loctite 680 Ford 2C3Z-9G804-AB Int'l 1843716C92

•You need a special tool to remove the high pressure lines coming out of the HPOP. A cheapie 9/16" bicycle wrench also works, most importantly it needs to be thin. The oil lines attach very similar to a compressed air hose attachment. http://www.thedieselstop.com/forums/...l-tool-229699/

•How to fix the uuneserviceable plug using International part 1842906C92 http://www.thedieselstop.com/forums/...g-hpop-170763/
 

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Discussion Starter #15
well got it all tore apart and found a couple of the injector orings torn/coming apart....do you think that could cause a engine miss? also found the icp sensor has oil coming out of the plug...i figure thats my long crank time problem there but would that cause a miss??
 

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also my truck has zero smoke out of the tailpipe...i'm trying to find a place to test the injectors while i got them out but not sure i trust just anyone to tell me if mine are ok or not...i really dont think its got a bad injector because there is no smoke out the tailpipe...maybe it was just some bad orings???
 

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if the injector orings are torn, that can cause a long/no start. I know I had mine do the same thing.
 
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