[JermBob]

Hello All,

So as the title states, I am experience a No start issue with my 04 6.0. The truck ran great before I did all this work which is what sucks, I DID have intermittent low circuit #7 injector (ended up being a corroded pin) and I also had bucking when in OD, everything I read on these forums stated fuel injectors. So I purchased an injector rebuild kit (new springs, seals, rings, metering ball), new stock nozzles, and new spool valves. I rebuilt a set of used injectors I purchased online, did the blue spring update, replaced oil rail nipple cup o rings, replaced HFCM as the one installed was original wasn't showing signs of age but wanted to reset the cycle of the entire fuel system and go another 180k. Did not touch stand pipe as I didn't think this style would be prone to failure as the updated versions were but I currently have two on order. Changed the oil and filter and fuel filters (all Ford filters only) Went to start and unfortunately no start, sounds like it wants to but does a weird fast crank and sounds like some cylinders are firing off but it just never actually starts on its own. Cranking parameters read as follows:

Fuel 60 PSI,
FICM Sync-YES,
FICM VOLT 48.5
ICP Volt 1.9-2.0
ICP PSI- 1400-1520 +- 50
IPR 44%
IPW ms 1.14
CRANKING 150-250 RPM

Further troubleshooting, ive tried putting a known good ficm in thinking it could've been my ficm still no change actually got a U0306 code when installing that FICM. Pulled fuel lines from bowl to banjo bolts inspected and sprayed with air thinking maybe one of them could've been clogged with debris, everything from what I saw was good. Disconnected the suction and return line from the HFCM and put fuel hoses in a fresh container of fuel thinking the time its been down any sediment settled in the tank but even with fresh fuel it didn't change the no start issue. I have a feeling ive wasted my money on rebuilding these injectors and should've just gotten the Motorcraft injectors out the gate instead of trying to save money but im worried if I spend the money on them at this point and im in the same no start situation that'll hurt bad lol based on the IPR % and ICP pressure of 1400-1500 would you all be in agreeance the HPOP is functioning properly? I am going to be transferring in the next few months so im at a point of having to take it to a shop to get it diagnosed/repaired, Thank you all in advance for the answers/insight.

 

[JermBob]

Also want to add that I've conducted an injector buzz test by unplugging all injectors then individually plugging in an injector. turning the key to hear that specific injector go through its buzz test, I have hearing loss so all together clicking I cant discern if they ALL were going off so one at a time works better for me lol. Also, before I even touched the injectors I DID buy a new Motorcraft injector harness hoping to fix the low circuit code. Which it didn't since it was a corroded pin on the injector solenoid connector. Have conducted bubble test and didn't have bubbles in fuel bowl after cranking thankfully.

 

[TheLinconlGreen]

Are you confident the injectors were rebuilt and installed properly?

 

[bismic]

What are you using to get engine parameters?

A good code reader would help. You talked about U0306, so you can pull some codes, but we need more information before knowing if you have a thorough code reader or not.

As posted above, it sounds like injectors are a "leading candidate" for being the problem. Would like to know if any injector code is being thrown or not.

Also, post the KOEO and cranking v-reference voltage.

Lastly - is your EGR system still intact and functional?

 

[6riders]

You also didn't mention how long you cranked it for, can you give an estimate?

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[JermBob]

Are you confident the injectors were rebuilt and installed properly?

Id like to say yes as I was the one who did rebuild of them and install. I took my time and was as thorough as I could’ve been. I’ve even gone so far as disassembled them all again to give everything another look over and everything looks good. Intensifier pistons move smoothly, nozzle plunger moves freely, both metering devices are oiled, spool valves are smooth as well and installed correct orientation. Company I purchased the rebuild parts says the used injectors I purchased from the separate individual says they could’ve been junk injectors hence why the guy sold them instead of running them in a vehicle

 

[JermBob]

What are you using to get engine parameters?

A good code reader would help. You talked about U0306, so you can pull some codes, but we need more information before knowing if you have a thorough code reader or not.

As posted above, it sounds like injectors are a "leading candidate" for being the problem. Would like to know if any injector code is being thrown or not.

Also, post the KOEO and cranking v-reference voltage.

Lastly - is your EGR system still intact and functional?

Im using an edge insight CTS just the monitor not a tuner or anything. No injector codes being thrown .

I did forget to add these are both new batteries, replaced them before i started cranking with new injectors.

Key on engine off voltage of the batteries is around 12.9v cranking drops down to 12.5 upon initial crank I stop for the day to recharge when the batteries start dropping to 11v to try to avoid ruining them.

egr is not intact, deleted it and flushed system with cat cool elc when first purchased it In 2013.

 

[JermBob]

You also didn't mention how long you cranked it for, can you give an estimate?

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I’ll crank for 20 +-5 seconds at a time and try to give it 40 seconds rest, seems to not be enough rest as the start gets quite hot.
All in all if say I get maybe 10 ten mins of cranking combined w rest time allowing to starter to cool.

 

[bismic]

What is cam/crank sync when cranking?

 

[TheLinconlGreen]

Curious about the weird fast crank. If you jump the starter control wire, is the crank fast and even?
Injectors all have new copper seals and torqued 26-30 ft lbs? I'm wondering if you're not getting a good seal and that's affecting your compression.

 

[JermBob]

What is cam/crank sync when cranking?

I’m not sure what cam or crank sync is as the edge isn’t showing me those PID options. If that’s a thing it can show maybe I’ll have to update it. It’s on the same programming as when I first purchased it after I bought the truck.

 

[bismic]

It should be able to show it. Usually FICM sync is enough, but on some rare occurrences you can have FICM sync without cam/crank sync.

Also check what the v-reference voltage is (5 volt circuit for critical sensors).

Lastly, if you could post a video of it cranking (with sound), maybe we could hear something that helps the troubleshooting.

 

[JermBob]

Curious about the weird fast crank. If you jump the starter control wire, is the crank fast and even?
Injectors all have new copper seals and torqued 26-30 ft lbs? I'm wondering if you're not getting a good seal and that's affecting your compression.

I assumed the fast crank was from when whatever cylinder actually got combustion and speeds up. Otherwise when cranking by jumping the starter cable it doesn’t happen and it’s smooth and even. As far as the seal, when i removed and installed the injectors I replaced the seals each time including the crush washer. Both my torque wrenches are older (ones digital other is spring style) but verified one with the other . I can get one of my recently calibrated ones from work to verify torque is correct though! That’s also going to be my next step is verify compression in each as I’m at a loss with this issue .

 

[TooManyToys]

The spec is for the injector hold down torque is 24lb-ft (288in-lb) for the long square tail T40 clamps and 25.8ft-lb (310lb-in) for the round tail T45 clamps. More than that puts you at peril for having cracks at the injector bores, leaking fuel into the coolant with the weakest castings. The 20mm heads are more resistant, but still, more is not necessarily better.

 

[JermBob]

It should be able to show it. Usually FICM sync is enough, but on some rare occurrences you can have FICM sync without cam/crank sync.

Also check what the v-reference voltage is (5 volt circuit for critical sensors).

Lastly, if you could post a video of it cranking (with sound), maybe we could hear something that helps the troubleshooting.
[/QUOTE

yes sir here’s the video from yesterday’s attempt, appears I did Let it go past 11vNo start video

 

[TooManyToys]

Your video is Private, not unlisted or listed.

 

[JermBob]

The spec is for the injector hold down torque is 24lb-ft (288in-lb) for the long square tail T40 clamps and 25.8ft-lb (310lb-in) for the round tail T45 clamps. More than that puts you at peril for having cracks at the injector bores, leaking fuel into the coolant with the weakest castings. The 20mm heads are more resistant, but still, more is not necessarily better.

Thank you sir for the info, will say thank you as well for your HFCM write up you did .

Your video is Private, not unlisted or listed.

View attachment 775603

I’m sorry about that, not sure why I did that! Changed the status to public

 

[TooManyToys]

Thanks. Not catching the private is something I've done, too.

That's a pretty healthy knock you have there. Early '04 with the ICP sensor behind the turbo or on the pass valve cover? The '03 design engines seem to have a knock to them when doing just a crank-over, but not as distinct as that.

I might be off on this - I'd pull the fuel filter leaving the canister with fuel and crank over with the starter jumper provision on the passenger fender side. Or, if using the starter key, pull the fuel pump fuse and the FICM relay and have it cranked. My concern with the knock is that you might have a leaking injector seal showing bubbles in the fuel canister.

Or you have an injector over injecting.

 

[JermBob]

Thanks. Not catching the private is something I've done, too.

That's a pretty healthy knock you have there. Early '04 with the ICP sensor behind the turbo or on the pass valve cover? The '03 design engines seem to have a knock to them when doing just a crank-over, but not as distinct as that.

I might be off on this - I'd pull the fuel filter leaving the canister with fuel and crank over with the starter jumper provision on the passenger fender side. Or, if using the starter key, pull the fuel pump fuse and the FICM relay and have it cranked. My concern with the knock is that you might have a leaking injector seal showing bubbles in the fuel canister.

Or you have an injector over injecting.

ICP is behind the turbo, have tried turning it over with it removed still didn’t star

I will attempt that bubble test again for sure and let you all know

I should’ve also added it’s a pretty good grayish smoke when cranking so could definitely be over fueling from them. Seems like all issues are pointing to the injectors though?Sometimes I guess it works to rebuild one or two and the computer can allow the other injectors compensate for the minor faults but I’m getting to the point where I realize there’s a reason almost everyone strictly recommends the motor craft injectors.

 

[TooManyToys]

While I have no issues rebuilding injectors from my Jimmy 2-stoke or old Ford compact diesel, I've never wanted to try these.

Anyway, for a reference sound, I looked through my videos, and the best ones to show are these. The in-cab was with the door closed, unfortunately. It also shows the difference of the faster running 6.4L starter. In both, you can hear the early production "bump."