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Crank No Start

7756 Views 100 Replies 5 Participants Last post by  BeardedSilverback
Well, this is gonna be a first for me. First time dealing with a crank no start. Ran fine to the grocery store and almost all the way home. Came around a corner at slow speed and engine cut off out of no where. Pulled off to the side of the road. Crank no start for a couple attempts. Then fired up, held idle just fine, ICP, FICM, BATT Voltage were all normal. Made it about 300 ft, went up the most slightest incline and engine cut off again. Few more crank no starts and it fired up again for about 10ish seconds, then died off again. Hasn't fired up again after 6 or more attempts.

Background on truck:
  • 2007 6.0, 159800 miles
  • Running an 8k Tow Tune (SCT X4 tuning device). Loaded the tune in the truck well over 4 weeks ago. Can't say who wrote it or if it's canned tuna...tuner came with the truck when I bought it in May of this year
  • Cat-back MBRP 4 inch with a test pipe in place of the actual meow meow
  • BPD EGR and Air/OIl Cooler installed. Due for an oil change and fuel filter change in 200 miles.
  • Using an Edge CTS3 digital gauge set to monitor operating parameters
  • Battery Voltage shows 11.8-11.9 after multiple cranking attempts (10 or so)
  • FICM Voltage between 48.5 and 49.5 (stock FICM) key on, not cranking
  • Normal cranking speed, not sluggish
  • Can still hear the fuel pump noises when turning key to on
  • ICP Voltage shows between .93 and 1.00V when cranking
  • ICP pressure shows around 650-700 PSI when cranking
  • No smell of raw fuel out of the tail pipe
  • No obvious fluid leaks around the engine.

Looking for any and all suggestions. I'm presentely "parked" in a red zone troubleshooting this thing.

Ok, here's an update before I even finish writing this. Gave it one more shot and it fired up. Letting it idle for a bit and seeing what happens before trying to drive it. Time between it dying the second time and this successful start was around 30 mins.

- Idle ICP V is .86-.87
-FICM holding at 49 - 49.5
  • Idle ICP PSI 575-585
  • Idle Batt V 12.9 - 13.0 (stock single alternator)

Never encountered any of this before. She has been as reliable as anything up until the last hour. Maybe freak occurrence?
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Welp, went for a test drive again after a solid warm up period...15 mins, just to double check. Cut out less than 3 miles into the drive. Got 2 cranks out of these two freshly charged batteries (Motorcraft batteries 11/21 manufacture date) and it got low where it wouldn't turn over no more. For s**s n giggles, pulled both batteries and had them load tested at an AutoZone down the street and they both failed. Popped no codes when it shut off this time and fuel pressure was 60 psi when it happened. Taking the batteries in under warranty tomorrow. I am concerned that the PO put an unnamed reman alternator in it. I dont *want to drop the money for a new alternator, but will if I need to. Gonna pull it tomorrow and have it tested just for a little assurance that it's ok.
We were suspecting battery issues since post #19 and #25. MAYBE, they weren't bad back then, but your problems pointed at them - per the codes and light. Good advice to check all the battery wiring and all the grounds! You are making headway!
Replaced the alternator and batteries. Fuel pressure was good. Got 15 or seconds of erratic RPM on the way to work today. Didn't catch the IPR, ICP, or fuel pressure right at that moment since its pouring rain and Californians don't know how to drive in the rain. My eyes were on the road. Now I'm back at a crank no start condition.
Question, are you supposed to have FICM sync during cranking? I have CMP/CKP sync during cranking, RPM is above 150, ICP is 650-725, IPR duty cycle was around 35% while cranking. Fuel pressure was between 58 and 61 while cranking. It did fire back up a couple times, died immediately twice out of the three times. The third time, it would stay running, albeit a bit rougher/more vibration than normal. Had to give it some pedal for the first 30 seconds on that third time to keep it fired up. After that, it felt like a rougher idle, but with no MIL or CEL. Checked the harness for the FICM and it feels like the back plug closest to the firewall feels like it has a little bit of play. How secure do those plugs fit into the connector socket on the FICM?
For context, I think the previous owner may have had a similar issue that he didn't disclose. He had replaced the alternator and the FICM previously....or that's just coincidence, not sure.
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You can't start without FICM Sync, so yes you do need it during cranking.
That makes sense. So I think I may have isolated at least one more issue. I have had a CAN DTC that shows up intermittently. The X-3 connector on the FICM feels a bit loose (small up/down and small side to side amounts of movement) and that connector has input/output into the CAN system. Thinking that it's possible the connector locking tabs broke from when the previous owner had the FICM changed. This would explain the truck randomly stalling as well as a CAN DTC. I would guess that it would also cause a FICM No Sync type condition as well. Gonna take it apart later and see what everything looks like. Have to drag tools from home to work since I had my truck towed to my work. Fun fun.
I'm not into doing temp fixes or work arounds, so I ordered a new X-3 connector pigtail from Diesel Power Products (made by Alliant) and im gonna go ahead and replace the FICM harness with an OEM one while I'm in there. That will take care of any potential issues with the X-1 and X-2 connectors. Hopefully the FICM wasn't damaged during this whole debacle.
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You may or may not have ordered the X3 connector with the wires, but IMO re-pinning the connector will make a MUCH more professional repair than wiring splices.
I ordered the connector with the wires. I'm gonna wrap everything with self-fusing silicone tape after I'm done. Won't look completely factory by any means, but it should get the job done.
At least off-set the splices. Otherwise it could look like an anaconda after supper.
Agreed. Good call. Thanks!
I reckon the splice job turned out ok. CAN communications issue is gone. Then I started getting intermittent CKP/CMP sync issues when test driving and it shut off on me again. Tugged on the CMP harness after about 5 solid cranks, gave it another go and she fired right back up. Looks like that's the next piece I'm chasing down to repair.
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I spent the last 45 days going through diagnostic steps. First check was fuel pressure, which was lower than expected. Found the blue spring kit was never installed. Fixed that and also installed a Glowshift fuel press gauge so I could continue real time monitoring. Fuel filters were due to be changed, so I did that as well. Filter bowl fill check KOEO passed as well as the bubble test. IPR/ICP was never an issue. Verified proper operation during multiple cranking no start events. RPM requirements were always met. Electrical was next on the chopping block. The batteries were the low hanging fruit there. Found they would not hold charge and they failed load test. Got those warrantied out for a new set. Found all three FICM connectors had broken lock tabs so changed out the injector harness and the X-3 connector off the main harness. Still had a random stalls, but it was random. Noticed that I had intermittent cam/crank sync issues. Disconnected the cam position sensor and found oil in the connector that was corrupting the sync signal. So, final repair was a new cam position sensor and replaced the pigtail for the sensor. Drove her home today (she was stuck at my office - did all the repairs in a parking lot) and she ran solid as a rock with good fuel pressure, good ICP and IPR readings, and no loss of sync at any point, even over some rough bumps. I'll chalk this up as a successful, yet lengthy repair process.
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Good deal. Hope you get long lasting reliability.
The reliability end was short lived I guess. Stalled again out of nowhere on a busy freeway, just to spite me i guess.. About 10 crank attempts over 20 mins or so yielded 2 short lived idle periods - about 5-10 seconds each. On the 3rd idle period it stayed on, had what I can best described as a hiccup after about 15 seconds of idling, like it was about to stall out again but didn't, it picked back up to idle and didn't shut off again after that. Was able to drive back at 65-70 mph for the 5 or so miles without any issues. As I'm writing this in the cab of the truck after returning home, it's still idling just fine - probably 15 mins or so since it started and stayed running. My faith in it not stalling out again has been fractured - just short of totally shattered.
Back to the drawing board I reckon. I was supposed to go on a 2.5 hr road trip on Thursday, but I think thats gonna get postponed.
Don't despair, but back to square 1.

Post codes and cranking data if/when it does not start.

You have nailed down some important things. I'm sure it isn't much more for you.
It was posting another CAN Comm code - U1900-20 I believe. A B1843 Brake switch code when it wouldn't fire up a bit ago. The B code cleared after it fired up.
ICP was 650-730ish
IPR was about 27%
ECT was about 165-175 at the time
EOT was in the mid 150s
RPM was about 175
SYNC was yes
FICMV was 48-49
FICML Power matched battery - between 11 and 12V
FICMSYNC during crank was no during the no start cranks, but then was no to yes in line with the no to yes on the SYNC when it did fire up.
ICP Voltage matched up with ICP. ICP Desired matched ICP during the no start cranks.
Fuel Injector pulse width was 0 during several of the no start crank events. I didn't catch it when it did decide to fire up. I went from key off to crank and ForScan hadn't booted up yet. That hiccup that it had, it seemed as if it burped or bled air from the fuel system. I can't say for certain though. Fuel pressure was solid at 58-61psi each time.
How firm should the FICM relay be in the box? I did check that when I got home and there was just a hair of side to side play in it.
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IMO that side-to-side play is probably a non-issue.
I didnt think it'd be an issue, but safer to ask than ignore I reckon.
Here is a snapshot of today's data while cranking. I know the FICM sync is an issue, albeit, an intermittent one.
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So I gently wiggled the EGR and CMP wires around after I got it running. Immediately shut off after touching the EGR wire. New issue im chasing down now is a short to voltage on the EGR motor controller on the EGR Valve.
I'm about half a heartbeat from ordering a main engine harness just to be done chasing the gremlins.
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An EGR valve short (typically in the 12V power wire) can cause an engine to stall much like an issue with the fan clutch wiring will (and the IPR wiring). Has to do with pulling down the PCM power voltage. That said, I can't say that I have noticed that it prevents FICM Sync. Hmm - an interesting possibility at least.
Gonna take a stab at it and say that the CMP output circuit code is gonna interfere with FICM sync. It's dark out now, troubleshooting and metering wires will continue tomorrow.
I think I've come to the conclusion that I'm gonna spend the time and cash to replace the main engine harness. I'm kinda over the whole electron whack-a-mole thing.
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@bismic - Are there any site sponsors that have good prices for an OEM main harness? The ford parts website is showing $810 (not including CA taxes) for my VIN.
I just bit the bullet and ordered from the Ford Parts website. Guess this will be my first major project for the new year. Not entirely excited to have to change a harness in the parking lot of my condo complex, but it is what it is I reckon. No more playing whack a mole for this guy.
New harness has arrived. Picking it up today. Also changing the CKP sensor since I'm gonna be knee deep in the engine bay anyways. Ordered the Motorcraft one from Amazon and it will be here tomorrow. Weather here in SoCal is ****e today so it looks like I'm gonna tackle this project later this week. I've got the o-rings/gasket kit for the EGR valve, so I'll be doing a little preventative maintenance in there as well.
2/3 of the way pulled. Enough pictures to know the routing. Fan tool set will be here tomorrow so I can yank that out and get to the crank sensor and plug and the cam sensor plug easier.
I had read that the fan was lefty loosey righty tighty. Verified that the crank sensor i got off Amazon wasnt a fake part. From all i can tell, its legit. Motorcraft part number and Ford part number on the packaging all match, packaging looks authentic so ill go with it. Im gonna pull the IPR since I'm that deep in there already and ensure the screen is free and clear of junk. Ordered a new screen kit from Ford this morning so I can throw a new one on and replace the orings. I really have no desire to yank a bunch of stuff apart again. Strong believer in preventative maintenance.
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