Crank No Start

7744 Views 100 Replies 5 Participants Last post by BeardedSilverback, 3 mo ago

BeardedSilverback

Discussion Starter · 7 mo ago (Edited)

Well, this is gonna be a first for me. First time dealing with a crank no start. Ran fine to the grocery store and almost all the way home. Came around a corner at slow speed and engine cut off out of no where. Pulled off to the side of the road. Crank no start for a couple attempts. Then fired up, held idle just fine, ICP, FICM, BATT Voltage were all normal. Made it about 300 ft, went up the most slightest incline and engine cut off again. Few more crank no starts and it fired up again for about 10ish seconds, then died off again. Hasn't fired up again after 6 or more attempts.

Background on truck:

2007 6.0, 159800 miles
Running an 8k Tow Tune (SCT X4 tuning device). Loaded the tune in the truck well over 4 weeks ago. Can't say who wrote it or if it's canned tuna...tuner came with the truck when I bought it in May of this year
Cat-back MBRP 4 inch with a test pipe in place of the actual meow meow
BPD EGR and Air/OIl Cooler installed. Due for an oil change and fuel filter change in 200 miles.
Using an Edge CTS3 digital gauge set to monitor operating parameters
Battery Voltage shows 11.8-11.9 after multiple cranking attempts (10 or so)
FICM Voltage between 48.5 and 49.5 (stock FICM) key on, not cranking
Normal cranking speed, not sluggish
Can still hear the fuel pump noises when turning key to on
ICP Voltage shows between .93 and 1.00V when cranking
ICP pressure shows around 650-700 PSI when cranking
No smell of raw fuel out of the tail pipe
No obvious fluid leaks around the engine.

Looking for any and all suggestions. I'm presentely "parked" in a red zone troubleshooting this thing.

Ok, here's an update before I even finish writing this. Gave it one more shot and it fired up. Letting it idle for a bit and seeing what happens before trying to drive it. Time between it dying the second time and this successful start was around 30 mins.

- Idle ICP V is .86-.87
-FICM holding at 49 - 49.5

Idle ICP PSI 575-585
Idle Batt V 12.9 - 13.0 (stock single alternator)

Never encountered any of this before. She has been as reliable as anything up until the last hour. Maybe freak occurrence?

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21 - 40 of 101 Posts

Hydro

· #21 · 6 mo ago

Won't matter, unless you are wanting to save your radio settings -- then just disconnect one battery at a time -- be sure to protect the "hot" battery cable from shorting

Reactions: 1

BeardedSilverback

Discussion Starter · #22 · 6 mo ago

Batteries finally charged up. They were pretty much discharged even though they read out 12.05V. Took over 10 hours on the charger per battery.
Glowshift MaxTow fuel pressure gauge and accessories on the way. Changing out fuel filters this afternoon and going from there.

Hydro

· #23 · 6 mo ago

Want to get fancy ?
go ahead and get sensors for the base oil pressure (test port on front of oil cooler housing 9/16x18 imperial o-ring fitting) and coolant bottle
then use a rotary switch to jump between the sensors -- so use one gauge for 3 jobs

BeardedSilverback

Discussion Starter · #24 · 6 mo ago

I'm good. Aint trying to get that crazy.

Here is the initial output from Forscan. Truck idles fine at the moment, fired on first crank.

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bismic

· #25 · 6 mo ago

P1378: Low FICM logic power. System detects less than 7 volts. Could be low batteries, loose connections (or excessive circuit resistance), bad relay, or even a bad FICM: FICM detects logic power low, less than 7 volts. Low batteries, loose connections/ resistance in circuit, defective relay.

P0528: Are you getting a P0480 along your P0528? If it's just a P0528 you're getting alone, it likely means your PCM is not reading the actual Fan RPMs, but still operational (which is the important part). If you were getting a HARD P0480 and P0528 together, I would say the fan blade ate the actual harness

BeardedSilverback

Discussion Starter · #26 · 6 mo ago

3

Changed both fuel filters today. Secondary filter bowl fills and it passes the bubble test, no problem. No abnormal debris out of the HFCM filter that I could see.
Took it for a test drive up and down the street by my house. Runs great when cold. IPR% at WOT is about 78%, 23-25% when running and off the pedal. edit - To clarify, I did not do a WOT throttle pull until it was sufficiently warmed up* I did notice there was a bit of stumble, twice, after about 10 mins of test drive. It was only momentary and i did not catch any of the gauge readings when it happened. Right about the time the oil hit 165-170ish, she cut out.
So I guess I'm chasing down a hot crank no-start issue. Waiting on a fuel pressure gauge kit to show up. Pictures are in chronological order. First is at idle after the filter change and truck getting warmed up. Second is KOEO after it died. Third is while attempting to crank about 5 mins after it died. Battery voltage is insanely low on that last crank attempt. Checked voltage at the batteries, its currently showing 12.56.

Vehicle Font Auto part Electric blue Motor vehicle

Vehicle Gauge Motor vehicle Trip computer Audio equipment

Trip computer Vehicle Odometer Gauge Car

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Hydro

· #27 · 6 mo ago

Battery voltage when cranking is the useful number

That IPR % looks high at idle and def is high at WOT
What are the ICP sensor pressures (and voltage) to go along with the IPR ?

BeardedSilverback

Discussion Starter · #28 · 6 mo ago

They are in the bottom right corner of the pictures.

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bismic

· #29 · 6 mo ago (Edited)

As posted above ..................

P1378

Low FICM logic power. System detects less than 7 volts. Could be low batteries, loose connections (or excessive circuit resistance), bad relay, or even a bad FICM: FICM detects logic power low, less than 7 volts. Low batteries, loose connections/ resistance in circuit, defective relay.

Also:

P0562

System voltage low - PCM less than 8 volts. Cause of no-start/misfire. Unreliable starts below 9 volts. Low VBAT, loose connections/resistance in circuit, Vref engine concerns.

These will cause an engine to die and not re-start!

Gotta love ForScan!

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BeardedSilverback

Discussion Starter · #30 · 6 mo ago

bismic said:
As posted above ..................

P1378
Low FICM logic power. System detects less than 7 volts. Could be low batteries, loose connections (or excessive circuit resistance), bad relay, or even a bad FICM: FICM detects logic power low, less than 7 volts. Low batteries, loose connections/ resistance in circuit, defective relay.

Also:

P0562 System voltage low - PCM less than 8 volts. Cause of no-start/misfire. Unreliable starts below 9 volts. Low VBAT, loose connections/resistance in circuit, Vref engine concerns.

These will cause an engine to die and not re-start!

Gotta love ForScan!

Got the glowshift fuel pressure gauge installed and verified fuel pressure with KOEO at only 50 psi. Batteries went dead again during the gauge install so they are back on the charger.

Hydro

· #31 · 6 mo ago

50 is factory, but it is desirable to get the pressure to 70 psi to insure the injectors do not have low inlet pressure -- you need to know the pressure under a heavy load situation -- WOT is used for this or better yet up hill pulling a heavy trailer -- 50 psi would be a minimum under load, closer to 70 would be better -- you do not want to go over 70 tho, the seals can start to leak fuel into the engine oil

Here is a video for you -- Jack does a good job showing the fuel pump and regulator

Reactions: 1

BeardedSilverback

Discussion Starter · #32 · 6 mo ago

Hydro said:
50 is factory, but it is desirable to get the pressure to 70 psi to insure the injectors do not have low inlet pressure -- you need to know the pressure under a heavy load situation -- WOT is used for this or better yet up hill pulling a heavy trailer -- 50 psi would be a minimum under load, closer to 70 would be better -- you do not want to go over 70 tho, the seals can start to leak fuel into the engine oil

Here is a video for you -- Jack does a good job showing the fuel pump and regulator

I'm verifying with the previous owner if the blue spring kit had ever been installed. If it has, 50 psi seems like it would be a little on the low end. I'm charging up the batteries again (have to chase down a parasitic draw issue that I think I've got going on). After that is done, I'll fire her up, get her up to temp and go for a couple rips around the block close to the house and monitor the fuel pressure under WOT conditions. I haven't ruled out a bad fuel pump as of right now. Fortunately, if it is a fuel pump, there are several Autozones near me that carry the OEM Motorcraft pumps.

Hydro

· #33 · 6 mo ago

The pickup foot in the tank fails and plastic gets wedged in the fuel suction line sometimes
you could empty the upper filter housing and key on to see how quickly the fuel runs in

easy to find if the blue spring is installed -- it's blue
the poppet seal will go bad sometimes, giving low pressure

Pop those grounds off, so the battery does not drain -- that will ruin the battery

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BeardedSilverback

Discussion Starter · #34 · 6 mo ago

Hydro said:
The pickup foot in the tank fails and plastic gets wedged in the fuel suction line sometimes
you could empty the upper filter housing and key on to see how quickly the fuel runs in

easy to find if the blue spring is installed -- it's blue
the poppet seal will go bad sometimes, giving low pressure

Pop those grounds off, so the battery does not drain -- that will ruin the battery

I heard about the pickup foot issue before. I did a key on bowl fill check and bubble test. The bowl filled damn near immediately. Truck passed the bubble test as well. I did several longer cranks of the motor (key completely out of the ignition for this part) using the passenger side starter motor signal wire.

BeardedSilverback

Discussion Starter · #35 · 6 mo ago

Contacted the previous owner last night and he is not aware of anything ever being done to the fuel system. Blue spring kit is on order with Ford (through the Ford Parts website) and hopefully ready to pickup from my local dealership today or tomorrow. I'll get that installed first and see what happens with the fuel pressure after that.

BeardedSilverback

Discussion Starter · #36 · 6 mo ago

Confirmed that the blue spring was not installed. Ordered and installed that kit last night. Raised the fuel pressure from 50 to 61-62 psi.

Checked over everything today, fired it up on the first crank. Shut off while idling after a little less than 10 mins, ECT and EOT were around 155 at that time. Got it fired back up after a couple mins of trying to crank it up. It idled fine after that for a solid 20 mins. Engine and coolant temp up to around 190 ECT and 180ish EOT. FICM and CK/CP syncs were all good. FICM voltages were all good. IPR and ICP numbers were good both when cold and after it warmed up. Drove it around the block without issue. Need to take it out for a longer drive tomorrow, check for any DTCs and do some WOT pulls after letting her warm up. It did trip a CEL after it shutoff the first time, but it cleared up on its own after it fired up the second time. I didn't have a chance to screen shot the parameters I was watching on ForScan Lite, but everything looked to be working normally. Keeping my fingers crossed for tomorrow.

Watch Speedometer Green Automotive lighting Gauge

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BeardedSilverback

Discussion Starter · #37 · 6 mo ago

Update for now....
Idled for a good 15 mins, no issues. WOT throttle checks from 10 mph up to 65 mph(3 of them) after a bit of normal driving, all good. Fuel pressure only dropped from 61 to, at the lowest, 56 psi. No stalls, drove normally for about 25ish mins all around the neighborhood and nearby freeway. I can only assume that my issue was correlated to the fuel pressure regulator and that the blue spring kit hadn't ever been installed. I did change the fuel filters before the blue spring, but they weren't bad at all. Guess we'll see what happens from here going forward.

Reactions: 2

Hydro

· #38 · 6 mo ago

Just so ya know, ...WOT goes a bit past 65

You can also place the truck in 4x4 and the tranny in 3rd -- then hold the brakes and throttle for a few seconds to simulate the WOT, if you are in a place that you can't get'er opened up

Reactions: 1

BeardedSilverback

Discussion Starter · #39 · 6 mo ago

Welp, went for a test drive again after a solid warm up period...15 mins, just to double check. Cut out less than 3 miles into the drive. Got 2 cranks out of these two freshly charged batteries (Motorcraft batteries 11/21 manufacture date) and it got low where it wouldn't turn over no more. For s**s n giggles, pulled both batteries and had them load tested at an AutoZone down the street and they both failed. Popped no codes when it shut off this time and fuel pressure was 60 psi when it happened. Taking the batteries in under warranty tomorrow. I am concerned that the PO put an unnamed reman alternator in it. I dont *want to drop the money for a new alternator, but will if I need to. Gonna pull it tomorrow and have it tested just for a little assurance that it's ok.

Hydro

· #40 · 6 mo ago

Monitoring the system voltage will tell if the alternator is doing it's job
even one of those little plug in voltage readouts will work fine -- cig lighter socket
sometimes even better since there is no boot up time on the little readout
and you can watch while cranking -- then again as the alternator starts charging

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