[BeardedSilverback]

Well, this is gonna be a first for me. First time dealing with a crank no start. Ran fine to the grocery store and almost all the way home. Came around a corner at slow speed and engine cut off out of no where. Pulled off to the side of the road. Crank no start for a couple attempts. Then fired up, held idle just fine, ICP, FICM, BATT Voltage were all normal. Made it about 300 ft, went up the most slightest incline and engine cut off again. Few more crank no starts and it fired up again for about 10ish seconds, then died off again. Hasn't fired up again after 6 or more attempts.

Background on truck:

• 2007 6.0, 159800 miles
• Running an 8k Tow Tune (SCT X4 tuning device). Loaded the tune in the truck well over 4 weeks ago. Can't say who wrote it or if it's canned tuna...tuner came with the truck when I bought it in May of this year
• Cat-back MBRP 4 inch with a test pipe in place of the actual meow meow
• BPD EGR and Air/OIl Cooler installed. Due for an oil change and fuel filter change in 200 miles.
• Using an Edge CTS3 digital gauge set to monitor operating parameters
• Battery Voltage shows 11.8-11.9 after multiple cranking attempts (10 or so)
• FICM Voltage between 48.5 and 49.5 (stock FICM) key on, not cranking
• Normal cranking speed, not sluggish
• Can still hear the fuel pump noises when turning key to on
• ICP Voltage shows between .93 and 1.00V when cranking
• ICP pressure shows around 650-700 PSI when cranking
• No smell of raw fuel out of the tail pipe
• No obvious fluid leaks around the engine.

Looking for any and all suggestions. I'm presentely "parked" in a red zone troubleshooting this thing.

Ok, here's an update before I even finish writing this. Gave it one more shot and it fired up. Letting it idle for a bit and seeing what happens before trying to drive it. Time between it dying the second time and this successful start was around 30 mins.

- Idle ICP V is .86-.87
-FICM holding at 49 - 49.5

• Idle ICP PSI 575-585
• Idle Batt V 12.9 - 13.0 (stock single alternator)

Never encountered any of this before. She has been as reliable as anything up until the last hour. Maybe freak occurrence?

 

[BeardedSilverback]

Aaaaaannnd, it died again after maybe 5 mins of idling. Didn't try dropping it into drive to move it. Just wanted to see if it would hold an idle,, which it did, kind of.

 

[BeardedSilverback]

There should be codes ......

Only code that showed up was U1900-30 CAN BUS Comm code. Oddly enough, I popped the hood, looked around (didn't touch nothin) and tried starting again with the hood up. It started, so I left the hood up and I was able to drive the last 600 ft (with my hazards on and the hood still up) to my assigned space at my condo unit.

 

[BeardedSilverback]

I am not impressed with the code reading thoroughness of the Edge units. ForScan has a better track record of retrieving them thoroughly.

That said, there are electronic glitches that can shut the engine down and will not throw codes. Failing IPR valve electronics, shorting out FICMs, injector solenoid shorts, and EBP sensor shorts, are all known to not always throw codes. Probably a few more.

Having known good parts to try is always a help, but not available to everyone. That said, the issue could be a harness problem, which can be difficult to find as well.

Pretty sure the common harness issue locations are listed in the link I posted above.

The fan clutch harness is a common one, but as I mentioned earlier - an issue there should definitely should throw a code.

I appreciate all the info. This is my first 6.0 so there is a huge learning curve that I'm undergoing.
RPMs were at or just a hair above 150, I think. I do need a good scanner. When it did finally fire back up, it did not have an abnormal idle rhythm, I goosed the throttle a couple times to make sure the ICP V and PSI followed suit, which they did. When I drove it around the corner to my parking space with the hood up, it sounded and drove as it always did previous to this incident tonight.

Will look into Forscan as recommended.

Is there a short list of parts that are good to keep around just in case? Appreciate all the help boss man.

 

[BeardedSilverback]

The Batt V shown on the Edge (which I'm assuming is system V) remained consistent around 11.8 with just the key on, dropping down to 11.1-11.3 when cranking. I dont recall seeing it drop into the 10s whatsoever. Once it started up on that last attempt, system V returned back to about 12.5 or so. On a normal day, system V is about 13.4-13.6 after she fires up and gets warmed up.

 

[BeardedSilverback]

Gonna hook up a fuel pressure gauge this afternoon to check that. Waiting on my IPR socket to show up from Amazon (bought the Lisle one). Gonna pull both the EBP and ICP sensor just for ****s n giggles to make sure there isn't any obvious obstructions.
Fuel filters are gonna get changed regardless. I had already planned on cleaning the EGR valve since the truck is new to me, just for peace of mind. Need to check IPR duty cycle before pulling it to see if anything is off there.
I'll post the values from those tests after I get them done. It's just weird that I'm not getting codes thrown for this, though I know you said that there are reasons for this happening that wouldn't necessarily trip the wrench light.

 

[BeardedSilverback]

Checked fuel pressure KOEO, pumps up to 55psi while the injectors run through their clicking, then drops almost immediately to zero after the injectors finish clicking, making a hissing type sound somewhere around the secondary fuel filter housing as the pressure drops off. About to go check fuel pressure under load. Working on getting the Forscan adapter and software for my phone.

 

[BeardedSilverback]

The fuel pump times out at 20 seconds if the engine is not running -- which is about the time the injectors get done on a cold engine

What is the fuel level in the tank ? -- need to have more than 1/4

She has a full tank of fuel. Took a couple of times cycling the key on/off to get pressure to build in the bowl.

 

[BeardedSilverback]

Update, went out to put the OBDLink on it, turned the key to on (not cranking) and it made it a few seconds into the injector buzz test, then the dome lights started flickering, radio started flickering, dash lights, and the buzz test slowly quit running. Checked both batteries and they are at 12V individually, 11.85 when connected to each other. Best to take them in to get load tested or just throw them on a charger and try again after they get charged up? I don't want to damage the FICM or any other electrical component.

 

[BeardedSilverback]

Charger at first, makes no difference which battery you connect to, as they are connected in a parallel circuit -- get em topped up and check the voltage when you are cranking -- resting voltage means little here, other than that they are undercharged

The flickering lights are an indicator that your battery is shot (or just needs charged) -- or at least not passing voltage to the truck -- gotta figure which one it is -- checking for corroded or loose connections (provided the battery holds voltage) is a first place to start -- voltage testing while cranking, after you have checked the connections - should tell if the battery is bad or not -- the starter and glow plugs are a good load tester, combined with a volt meter

I gotta go at it a little differently. I live in a condo complex so I have to take them out of the truck to charge them. Trying to figure out if I should take out one at a time to charge it, then place back in the truck to maintain system voltage.

 

[BeardedSilverback]

Batteries finally charged up. They were pretty much discharged even though they read out 12.05V. Took over 10 hours on the charger per battery.
Glowshift MaxTow fuel pressure gauge and accessories on the way. Changing out fuel filters this afternoon and going from there.

 

[BeardedSilverback]

I'm good. Aint trying to get that crazy.

Here is the initial output from Forscan. Truck idles fine at the moment, fired on first crank.

 

[BeardedSilverback]

Changed both fuel filters today. Secondary filter bowl fills and it passes the bubble test, no problem. No abnormal debris out of the HFCM filter that I could see.
Took it for a test drive up and down the street by my house. Runs great when cold. IPR% at WOT is about 78%, 23-25% when running and off the pedal. edit - To clarify, I did not do a WOT throttle pull until it was sufficiently warmed up* I did notice there was a bit of stumble, twice, after about 10 mins of test drive. It was only momentary and i did not catch any of the gauge readings when it happened. Right about the time the oil hit 165-170ish, she cut out.
So I guess I'm chasing down a hot crank no-start issue. Waiting on a fuel pressure gauge kit to show up. Pictures are in chronological order. First is at idle after the filter change and truck getting warmed up. Second is KOEO after it died. Third is while attempting to crank about 5 mins after it died. Battery voltage is insanely low on that last crank attempt. Checked voltage at the batteries, its currently showing 12.56.

 

[BeardedSilverback]

They are in the bottom right corner of the pictures.

 

[BeardedSilverback]

As posted above ..................

P1378​

Low FICM logic power. System detects less than 7 volts. Could be low batteries, loose connections (or excessive circuit resistance), bad relay, or even a bad FICM: FICM detects logic power low, less than 7 volts. Low batteries, loose connections/ resistance in circuit, defective relay.​

Also:

P0562

System voltage low - PCM less than 8 volts. Cause of no-start/misfire. Unreliable starts below 9 volts. Low VBAT, loose connections/resistance in circuit, Vref engine concerns.

These will cause an engine to die and not re-start!

Gotta love ForScan!

Got the glowshift fuel pressure gauge installed and verified fuel pressure with KOEO at only 50 psi. Batteries went dead again during the gauge install so they are back on the charger.

 

[BeardedSilverback]

50 is factory, but it is desirable to get the pressure to 70 psi to insure the injectors do not have low inlet pressure -- you need to know the pressure under a heavy load situation -- WOT is used for this or better yet up hill pulling a heavy trailer -- 50 psi would be a minimum under load, closer to 70 would be better -- you do not want to go over 70 tho, the seals can start to leak fuel into the engine oil

Here is a video for you -- Jack does a good job showing the fuel pump and regulator

I'm verifying with the previous owner if the blue spring kit had ever been installed. If it has, 50 psi seems like it would be a little on the low end. I'm charging up the batteries again (have to chase down a parasitic draw issue that I think I've got going on). After that is done, I'll fire her up, get her up to temp and go for a couple rips around the block close to the house and monitor the fuel pressure under WOT conditions. I haven't ruled out a bad fuel pump as of right now. Fortunately, if it is a fuel pump, there are several Autozones near me that carry the OEM Motorcraft pumps.

 

[BeardedSilverback]

The pickup foot in the tank fails and plastic gets wedged in the fuel suction line sometimes
you could empty the upper filter housing and key on to see how quickly the fuel runs in

easy to find if the blue spring is installed -- it's blue
the poppet seal will go bad sometimes, giving low pressure

Pop those grounds off, so the battery does not drain -- that will ruin the battery

I heard about the pickup foot issue before. I did a key on bowl fill check and bubble test. The bowl filled damn near immediately. Truck passed the bubble test as well. I did several longer cranks of the motor (key completely out of the ignition for this part) using the passenger side starter motor signal wire.

 

[BeardedSilverback]

Contacted the previous owner last night and he is not aware of anything ever being done to the fuel system. Blue spring kit is on order with Ford (through the Ford Parts website) and hopefully ready to pickup from my local dealership today or tomorrow. I'll get that installed first and see what happens with the fuel pressure after that.

 

[BeardedSilverback]

Confirmed that the blue spring was not installed. Ordered and installed that kit last night. Raised the fuel pressure from 50 to 61-62 psi.

Checked over everything today, fired it up on the first crank. Shut off while idling after a little less than 10 mins, ECT and EOT were around 155 at that time. Got it fired back up after a couple mins of trying to crank it up. It idled fine after that for a solid 20 mins. Engine and coolant temp up to around 190 ECT and 180ish EOT. FICM and CK/CP syncs were all good. FICM voltages were all good. IPR and ICP numbers were good both when cold and after it warmed up. Drove it around the block without issue. Need to take it out for a longer drive tomorrow, check for any DTCs and do some WOT pulls after letting her warm up. It did trip a CEL after it shutoff the first time, but it cleared up on its own after it fired up the second time. I didn't have a chance to screen shot the parameters I was watching on ForScan Lite, but everything looked to be working normally. Keeping my fingers crossed for tomorrow.

 

[BeardedSilverback]

Update for now....
Idled for a good 15 mins, no issues. WOT throttle checks from 10 mph up to 65 mph(3 of them) after a bit of normal driving, all good. Fuel pressure only dropped from 61 to, at the lowest, 56 psi. No stalls, drove normally for about 25ish mins all around the neighborhood and nearby freeway. I can only assume that my issue was correlated to the fuel pressure regulator and that the blue spring kit hadn't ever been installed. I did change the fuel filters before the blue spring, but they weren't bad at all. Guess we'll see what happens from here going forward.