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2007 F-250 King Ranch
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92 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Well, this is gonna be a first for me. First time dealing with a crank no start. Ran fine to the grocery store and almost all the way home. Came around a corner at slow speed and engine cut off out of no where. Pulled off to the side of the road. Crank no start for a couple attempts. Then fired up, held idle just fine, ICP, FICM, BATT Voltage were all normal. Made it about 300 ft, went up the most slightest incline and engine cut off again. Few more crank no starts and it fired up again for about 10ish seconds, then died off again. Hasn't fired up again after 6 or more attempts.

Background on truck:
  • 2007 6.0, 159800 miles
  • Running an 8k Tow Tune (SCT X4 tuning device). Loaded the tune in the truck well over 4 weeks ago. Can't say who wrote it or if it's canned tuna...tuner came with the truck when I bought it in May of this year
  • Cat-back MBRP 4 inch with a test pipe in place of the actual meow meow
  • BPD EGR and Air/OIl Cooler installed. Due for an oil change and fuel filter change in 200 miles.
  • Using an Edge CTS3 digital gauge set to monitor operating parameters
  • Battery Voltage shows 11.8-11.9 after multiple cranking attempts (10 or so)
  • FICM Voltage between 48.5 and 49.5 (stock FICM) key on, not cranking
  • Normal cranking speed, not sluggish
  • Can still hear the fuel pump noises when turning key to on
  • ICP Voltage shows between .93 and 1.00V when cranking
  • ICP pressure shows around 650-700 PSI when cranking
  • No smell of raw fuel out of the tail pipe
  • No obvious fluid leaks around the engine.

Looking for any and all suggestions. I'm presentely "parked" in a red zone troubleshooting this thing.

Ok, here's an update before I even finish writing this. Gave it one more shot and it fired up. Letting it idle for a bit and seeing what happens before trying to drive it. Time between it dying the second time and this successful start was around 30 mins.

- Idle ICP V is .86-.87
-FICM holding at 49 - 49.5
  • Idle ICP PSI 575-585
  • Idle Batt V 12.9 - 13.0 (stock single alternator)

Never encountered any of this before. She has been as reliable as anything up until the last hour. Maybe freak occurrence?
 

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2007 F-250 King Ranch
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92 Posts
Discussion Starter · #2 ·
Aaaaaannnd, it died again after maybe 5 mins of idling. Didn't try dropping it into drive to move it. Just wanted to see if it would hold an idle,, which it did, kind of.
 

· Compression Ignition Addict
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12,043 Posts
What rpms are you getting when it is cranking, but not starting?

How fast can an empty secondary fuel filter bowl be filled with the key "on"? Be careful, it should fill in seconds. This is a two person job.

Might need to do a cranking bubble test for an injector that is leaking combustion gas back into the fuel line(s).

 

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2007 F-250 King Ranch
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92 Posts
Discussion Starter · #5 ·
There should be codes ......
Only code that showed up was U1900-30 CAN BUS Comm code. Oddly enough, I popped the hood, looked around (didn't touch nothin) and tried starting again with the hood up. It started, so I left the hood up and I was able to drive the last 600 ft (with my hazards on and the hood still up) to my assigned space at my condo unit.
 

· Compression Ignition Addict
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I am not impressed with the code reading thoroughness of the Edge units. ForScan has a better track record of retrieving them thoroughly.

That said, there are electronic glitches that can shut the engine down and will not throw codes. Failing IPR valve electronics, shorting out FICMs, injector solenoid shorts, and EBP sensor shorts, are all known to not always throw codes. Probably a few more.

Having known good parts to try is always a help, but not available to everyone. That said, the issue could be a harness problem, which can be difficult to find as well.

Pretty sure the common harness issue locations are listed in the link I posted above.

The fan clutch harness is a common one, but as I mentioned earlier - an issue there should definitely should throw a code.
 

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2007 F-250 King Ranch
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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
I am not impressed with the code reading thoroughness of the Edge units. ForScan has a better track record of retrieving them thoroughly.

That said, there are electronic glitches that can shut the engine down and will not throw codes. Failing IPR valve electronics, shorting out FICMs, injector solenoid shorts, and EBP sensor shorts, are all known to not always throw codes. Probably a few more.

Having known good parts to try is always a help, but not available to everyone. That said, the issue could be a harness problem, which can be difficult to find as well.

Pretty sure the common harness issue locations are listed in the link I posted above.

The fan clutch harness is a common one, but as I mentioned earlier - an issue there should definitely should throw a code.
I appreciate all the info. This is my first 6.0 so there is a huge learning curve that I'm undergoing.
RPMs were at or just a hair above 150, I think. I do need a good scanner. When it did finally fire back up, it did not have an abnormal idle rhythm, I goosed the throttle a couple times to make sure the ICP V and PSI followed suit, which they did. When I drove it around the corner to my parking space with the hood up, it sounded and drove as it always did previous to this incident tonight.

Will look into Forscan as recommended.

Is there a short list of parts that are good to keep around just in case? Appreciate all the help boss man.
 

· Compression Ignition Addict
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LOL - boss man

Bear in mind that the limit for reliable start is right at 150 rpm. Since you are experiencing a stall, there is probably something else going on. How are your system voltages when cranking after it stalls?
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
The Batt V shown on the Edge (which I'm assuming is system V) remained consistent around 11.8 with just the key on, dropping down to 11.1-11.3 when cranking. I dont recall seeing it drop into the 10s whatsoever. Once it started up on that last attempt, system V returned back to about 12.5 or so. On a normal day, system V is about 13.4-13.6 after she fires up and gets warmed up.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Gonna hook up a fuel pressure gauge this afternoon to check that. Waiting on my IPR socket to show up from Amazon (bought the Lisle one). Gonna pull both the EBP and ICP sensor just for ****s n giggles to make sure there isn't any obvious obstructions.
Fuel filters are gonna get changed regardless. I had already planned on cleaning the EGR valve since the truck is new to me, just for peace of mind. Need to check IPR duty cycle before pulling it to see if anything is off there.
I'll post the values from those tests after I get them done. It's just weird that I'm not getting codes thrown for this, though I know you said that there are reasons for this happening that wouldn't necessarily trip the wrench light.
 

· Compression Ignition Addict
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IMO any 6.0L owner should have the ForScan software on a Windows PC or the "Lite" software on a smartphone.

Only then (or with IDS) would I feel certain of the codes being pulled.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Checked fuel pressure KOEO, pumps up to 55psi while the injectors run through their clicking, then drops almost immediately to zero after the injectors finish clicking, making a hissing type sound somewhere around the secondary fuel filter housing as the pressure drops off. About to go check fuel pressure under load. Working on getting the Forscan adapter and software for my phone.
 

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Checked fuel pressure KOEO, pumps up to 55psi while the injectors run through their clicking, then drops almost immediately to zero after the injectors finish clicking, making a hissing type sound somewhere around the secondary fuel filter housing as the pressure drops off. About to go check fuel pressure under load. Working on getting the Forscan adapter and software for my phone.
The fuel pump times out at 20 seconds if the engine is not running -- which is about the time the injectors get done on a cold engine

What is the fuel level in the tank ? -- need to have more than 1/4
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
The fuel pump times out at 20 seconds if the engine is not running -- which is about the time the injectors get done on a cold engine

What is the fuel level in the tank ? -- need to have more than 1/4
She has a full tank of fuel. Took a couple of times cycling the key on/off to get pressure to build in the bowl.
 

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I think checking the fuel flow would be good -- use a turkey baster or something like that to suck the fuel out of the upper filter housing, and leave the filter out for this

Have a helper turn the key on (do not crank) and see how quickly the filter housing fills with fuel -- fuel should not have many (any) bubbles when it enters and should fill quickly -- less than 10 seconds
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Update, went out to put the OBDLink on it, turned the key to on (not cranking) and it made it a few seconds into the injector buzz test, then the dome lights started flickering, radio started flickering, dash lights, and the buzz test slowly quit running. Checked both batteries and they are at 12V individually, 11.85 when connected to each other. Best to take them in to get load tested or just throw them on a charger and try again after they get charged up? I don't want to damage the FICM or any other electrical component.
 

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Charger at first, makes no difference which battery you connect to, as they are connected in a parallel circuit -- get em topped up and check the voltage when you are cranking -- resting voltage means little here, other than that they are undercharged

The flickering lights are an indicator that your battery is shot (or just needs charged) -- or at least not passing voltage to the truck -- gotta figure which one it is -- checking for corroded or loose connections (provided the battery holds voltage) is a first place to start -- voltage testing while cranking, after you have checked the connections - should tell if the battery is bad or not -- the starter and glow plugs are a good load tester, combined with a volt meter
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Charger at first, makes no difference which battery you connect to, as they are connected in a parallel circuit -- get em topped up and check the voltage when you are cranking -- resting voltage means little here, other than that they are undercharged

The flickering lights are an indicator that your battery is shot (or just needs charged) -- or at least not passing voltage to the truck -- gotta figure which one it is -- checking for corroded or loose connections (provided the battery holds voltage) is a first place to start -- voltage testing while cranking, after you have checked the connections - should tell if the battery is bad or not -- the starter and glow plugs are a good load tester, combined with a volt meter
I gotta go at it a little differently. I live in a condo complex so I have to take them out of the truck to charge them. Trying to figure out if I should take out one at a time to charge it, then place back in the truck to maintain system voltage.
 
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