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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Hi there, I am new to the forum and am looking for some help diagnosing a crank/no start on a 2000 f350 (bone stock) that I have had for a little while. Some backstory:
It was having some trouble cold starting in sub 20 degree weather, so I recently installed 8 new OEM glow plugs, new UVCH, new batteries, and a starter to get it though Colorado winter. Drove it up to the mountains, and cold started it at sub zero temps two mornings in a row. After driving it ~45 mins (gently till it warmed up) the 2nd day, let it sit 6 hours, came back and tried to start it, but got long crank with a little white smoke out the tailpipe, but it wouldn’t start. Had a buddy tow me and tried to bump start, still wouldn’t fire. Got it towed home, plugged it in. After being plugged in for 3 hours, bumped the key (not even a full crank) and it fired right up. tested it out hot and cold a few more times since, when cold it cranks but doesn’t even try to fire with A tiny amount of white smoke coming out the tailpipe, when plugged in for a few hours it starts no problem.
I’m guessing I have a problem either with fuel pressure or oil pressure, just not sure what exactly to start checking.
ive tried cold starting with ICP unplugged, doesn’t make a difference.
hooked up forscan, here’s what I’m reading during a crank:
IPR: 14.8% dead to 32.4% while cranking
ICPV: 0 to 17,248
150 rpms
Did a buzz test and injectors passed and all sounded same.
fuel bowl is full, refills if I drain then turn the key
Only code being thrown in P0603
Attaching a picture of forscan running during a crank, please let me know if I need to add anything else to monitor!
Thanks!
772162
 

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Hmmm, I'm not sure 155 rpms is enough but hopefully someone will confirm that. It might be, I can't recall. Possibly sounds like the glow plug relay though. Seems like you replaced a lot that would affect this but didn't see the relay. I would check that first. That would explain why it starts when plugged in but not by itself.

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Discussion Starter #4
I thought 155 was low, do you know what a normal cranking RPM looks like? And sorry, forgot to mention I put on a stancor relay, already tested that and ohmD the GP’s and everything is Looking right
 

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You lost me at “L-o-L”
 

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177k is a little low for worn out injectors, but yours are displaying the symptoms

little to no white smoke when cranking cold -- but starts after being plugged in

easy way to check is pull a valve cover and crank when cold, observing the oil drain spouts on the injectors
no oil squirt = no injection
 

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Also, try plugging her in for a few hours. I hear 3-4 is key. If it's tired injectors this should fix it then you can get some archoil or revex and syn oil + plug in until you get through the winter and save some money.

I don't know but the icp of 15000-17000 seems high?

Can someone confirm RPM required for start and ICP? I know ICP needs to be greater than 500 but 17000 seems off to me. I think RPM has to over 100 or 200?



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First, no, 155rpm is good, pretty average really (must be above 100 to start).

Next 15,000 kPa it around 21,000psi and, while high enough, is a suspicious value that the PCM sets when not seeing anything from the ICP. Monitor the ICP when it's running to be sure it's acting logically. You have no HiPres Oil codes though - right?

When you cold start, how long do you leave the Key ON, heating the plugs, before you crank it over? (you know that WTS light is meaningless as far as the plugs are concerned).

But, in the end, if Plugging in turns-out to be the solution, then yea, you've got to go see what's happening with the injectors as Hydro suggests...
 

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Goto options and change that metric stuff to imperial

2223 PSI is what @NoRalPh was referencing, need to see the voltage from the ICP sensor to prove the pressure readings
pressure can be "made up" by the PCM if the voltage reading is not plausible from the sensor

Voltage when cranking is important to know, you need a minimum of 9.0 vlots or the computers will not function -- like to see 10 or more
ForScan should have PIDs for the voltage readings

Short tutorial on glow plugs:
After 15 seconds the plugs should be glowing (providing the system is working as it should),
heating more than that does nothing to help with starting -- the plugs do not heat the cylinder enough to make a difference
the plugs however vaporize the fine mist that is off to the side of the main streams from the injector tip
and that heated vapor is pretty flammable when compressed
that early flame is what heats the cylinders and starts combustion
 

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Sounds like a glow plug relay. I went through 2 of them with under 100K miles on an 2001 7.3, until I switched to a heavy duty relay.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
First, no, 155rpm is good, pretty average really (must be above 100 to start).

Next 15,000 kPa it around 21,000psi and, while high enough, is a suspicious value that the PCM sets when not seeing anything from the ICP. Monitor the ICP when it's running to be sure it's acting logically. You have no HiPres Oil codes though - right?

When you cold start, how long do you leave the Key ON, heating the plugs, before you crank it over? (you know that WTS light is meaningless as far as the plugs are concerned).

But, in the end, if Plugging in turns-out to be the solution, then yea, you've got to go see what's happening with the injectors as Hydro suggests...
Thanks for the help! No hi pressure oil codes! But is there any way the HPOP could be having issues and not throwing codes? Or what could I do to make sure it is working properly?
And on cold starts I always let the glow plugs warm up for 30 sec to a minute before I try and crank. Sounds like injectors might be the issue, plugging it in is the only way I can get it to start at the moment.

Goto options and change that metric stuff to imperial

2223 PSI is what @NoRalPh was referencing, need to see the voltage from the ICP sensor to prove the pressure readings
pressure can be "made up" by the PCM if the voltage reading is not plausible from the sensor

Voltage when cranking is important to know, you need a minimum of 9.0 vlots or the computers will not function -- like to see 10 or more
ForScan should have PIDs for the voltage readings

Short tutorial on glow plugs:
After 15 seconds the plugs should be glowing (providing the system is working as it should),
heating more than that does nothing to help with starting -- the plugs do not heat the cylinder enough to make a difference
the plugs however vaporize the fine mist that is off to the side of the main streams from the injector tip
and that heated vapor is pretty flammable when compressed
that early flame is what heats the cylinders and starts combustion
I will change to imperial next time I get forscan hooked up. I Checked voltage while cranking and it drops to 10.5 during a long crank
And thanks, I Always leave the gps on for 30 or so prior to starting, didn’t realize that wasn’t necessary!
 

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What oil are you running and have you made sure it's full? It doesn't fully explain the start when plugged in but it might be a clue.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
I’m running delvac 1300 15w-40 at the moment, I checked it yesterday and it is full. Going to try switching to a 5w full synthetic this weekend to see if that helps
 

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I’m running delvac 1300 15w-40 at the moment, I checked it yesterday and it is full. Going to try switching to a 5w full synthetic this weekend to see if that helps
Was going to ask when the last time you changed oil was... I am/was having problems with hard-starting/no-starting in temps <40 F unless I plugged in the block heater for a bit (plenty of white smoke while it tried, though). In the midst of checking the GP system (GPR is fine, haven't tested the GPs themselves yet) I ran an oil flush (Amsoil @30 minutes idling), changed oil (Kirkland 15W-40, FWIW), and added Hot Shots Stiction Eliminator (2 qts.) yesterday, and this morning it fired right up at 33 F outside after 6+ hrs of cold soak in Northern IN. I had planned on doing an oil change anyway, as the truck is new to me and has ~300k miles on it and I was pretty sure that I had a sticking injector when it was cold.

Anyhow, best of luck!
 
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