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Discussion Starter #1
So I Thought that the Chassis cab F-450's were de-rated to
325 Hp and 600Ft.lbs.....
What I just found out, is the sticker on my valve cover says 325 and 600 on my Regular F-450... It is a Manual Trans and I know that is probably why.... I am pissed! That is a load of Bull you know what.... :doh::doh:

Anyway, My question to you TUNERS (i dont want guesses by others please....) is will the delete tuner re-program the manual truck just like the Auto? In other words will I/we Manula trans guys, get the ponies back and have the same overall power and torque as the auto trucks with the software and delete pipes? Please tell me yes? :dunno:
 

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There is another thread with a guy that has a manual truck, and he explains/describes his tuning episode. Might want to find it and read it..
 

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Couple that reduced HP/torque to the 4.30 rearend and it doesn't make any sense. They give us a bigger, heavier truck and take away the power to move the heavy load. I am so glad that my 450 is being replaced cuz I'm going back to a 350 w/ 3.73's....and I'm putting a tuner in!!
 

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Oh, and BTW, the tuner will work with your truck. I checked with Edge and KEM and there will be some things that yours will not use (tranny temp, shift points) but it will work just like an auto-equipped truck, and override the shortage of HP/torque. I didn't ask KEM this question, but Edge did not know if their tuner added onto from the 325/600 numbers, or from the 350/650. Hope that helps.
 

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F450's are rated to pull a lot more weight than a F250/350 with same engine. I bet Ford derates them by cutting back fuel to avoid issues from someone trying to pull 20K up a steep grade at 65mph..flat out. So if you get a tuner...I would certainly recommend a EGT gauge so you can keep track of how hard you are working the engine.
 

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Im not a tuner, so sorry, but heres my input anyway. The fact that your truck is detuned is not because its a manual. All of the 450's and higher have a detuned engine. Because its a bigger truck, and will be pulling more often with heavier loads, and also possibly be fleet vehicles, people will probably have their foot to the floor more often, and if they detune it a few horse, you can extend the life of the drivetrain at WOT. Thats my reasoning anyway.:twocents:
 

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I have an 08 F-450 CC Dually, Auto, 4x4, with 4.30 gearing, and my understanding is that the detuned models are with the 4.88 gearing. I am able to keep up with a few of the guys around here that are running stock 250's and 350's with no problems whatsoever, and in some cases, if I disable the TCS, I can really get them off the line. I am awaiting the arrival of my new tuner and delete pipe from Spartan, and I have been assured by Matt that I will be at the same HP numbers as the rest of the guys that are going to be running his new tuner with delete pipe. Hope this helps.
 

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You guys missed the question, what he is asking is not if the tuners work as we know they do. He wants to know if the HP/TQ that his truck is detuned to comes back when he installs a tune in the truck. So it ends up at the same end HP/TQ numbers as a 350/650 F250 or 350. This would mean the HP/TQ gains and the "detuned" trucks would be greater than the 350/650 version. I am no "tuner" but I can tell you experience that the end hp/tq numbers on a detuned F450 are not the same as F250/350 with the same parts installed. Most tuning rewrites parts of the stock program, not the whole program. If the flash tuners wrote a whole new program then issues like current version,build dates and reflashes wouldn't be an issue. I have the same issue F450 auto w/ 4.88 gears so I ended up with the detuned truck. I was going to try to reflash it to a 4.30 gear truck optioned the same way and see if it would work. Just not enough time in the day, yet! I'll let you all know if it works though. Sean
 

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Discussion Starter #10
It amazes me how some people dont read the question or pay attention.....

Anyway, I know the tuner will work. As two of you pointed out, my question to MATT is will the tuner put me at the same numbers as a 250 or 350?

On another note, Can Anyone that has a F-450 Auto please look on their valve cover on the drivers side and confirm if they are de-tuned as well? Again, Please actually take 2 Seconds to LOOK and find out for sure!

Thanks guys .... MATT where you at?
 

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Discussion Starter #11
" Powerstroker67" I have a 4.30 geared truck..... It doesent have anything to do with the gearing... I am starting to beileve that it is all the F-450's and it is to extend life due to the high tow ratings..... Before I bought my truck I had read somewhere that the CC models were derated, but I had no idea that the others were also.

Here is what I think (hope).... I am thinking that the derated trucks are putting out less numbers due to less aggressive Timing and fuel maps... if this is the case then The tuner should take care of this problem because those values are modified. Hopefully Spartan can confirm this :confused:
 

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It amazes me how some people dont read the question or pay attention.....

Anyway, I know the tuner will work. As two of you pointed out, my question to MATT is will the tuner put me at the same numbers as a 250 or 350?

On another note, Can Anyone that has a F-450 Auto please look on their valve cover on the drivers side and confirm if they are de-tuned as well? Again, Please actually take 2 Seconds to LOOK and find out for sure!

Thanks guys .... MATT where you at?
I spoke with a ford tech, all 450's are derated from the factory. if your looking for Matt (spartendiesel) to reply in here, he isnt a member here anymore. best bet would be to call him. great guy to talk to, when you can reach him.
 

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It amazes me how some people dont read the question or pay attention.....

Anyway, I know the tuner will work. As two of you pointed out, my question to MATT is will the tuner put me at the same numbers as a 250 or 350?

On another note, Can Anyone that has a F-450 Auto please look on their valve cover on the drivers side and confirm if they are de-tuned as well? Again, Please actually take 2 Seconds to LOOK and find out for sure!

Thanks guys .... MATT where you at?
Probably still at or on the way home from Bowling Green, KY and the TS Outlaw Event on Saturday. Can't wait to hear any new high numbers from the 6.0s and 6.4s as well as the Cummins and DMax.:thumb:

Also, to be fair, the last he told me about these boards is that he can't post due to not being a supporting/sponsoring vendor. This may have changed but I'm not positive. Think he might have broken a rule concerning promoting products. Oops.:doh:

Stay Tuned
Amp
 

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HP/TQ

I just checked my F450 King Ranch with 4.30 gears sticker says 350hp & 650 tq. I understood that it only the trucks w/4.88 gears that were derated as well.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Whitehorse Your truck is an Automatic?

Again, Ill repeat myself.... I HAVE 4.30 gears. manual trans . 325hp 600ft lbs.

If whitehorse is an automatic then The manual trans trucks are derated.

SlammedSi That is why I dont pay attention to hearsay. Ford techs SAY ALOT! usually alot of what they heard.....

Thanks for the replies guys! as soon as whitehorse confirms we will finally know the truth about the de-rated issue. Once we put that to rest I will get to the bottom of this tuner issue.
 

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Whitehorse Your truck is an Automatic?

Again, Ill repeat myself.... I HAVE 4.30 gears. manual trans . 325hp 600ft lbs.

If whitehorse is an automatic then The manual trans trucks are derated.

SlammedSi That is why I dont pay attention to hearsay. Ford techs SAY ALOT! usually alot of what they heard.....

Thanks for the replies guys! as soon as whitehorse confirms we will finally know the truth about the de-rated issue. Once we put that to rest I will get to the bottom of this tuner issue.
I have herd form alot of people on here that they are detuned from the factory. as like you said. to help in towing, heat. and over all longivity. but thats what i have herd from many people. but they could be wrong.
 

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When I ordered my job 1 truck, at the time, the 4.88 and manual trucks were detuned. My understanding was that the 4.88 was for longevity of the engine and the Manual was for the longevity of the transmission. If I recall corectly the manual is only max rated to tow 20k #'s
 

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Yes mine IS detuned to 325/600 per the valve cover. Last year when I ordered the truck the dealer had a 4.30 gear auto and a 4.88 gear stick. I checked those two valve covers and they confirmed what you are saying. In march last year no one really knew much about ordering these trucks and I actually caught in on the brouchure. I still ordered the 4.88's knowing I was going install a lift and larger tires the same day I picked up the truck. The dealer was kind enough to let me use one of the trucks to measure and make suspension and steering parts before mine came in. We saved the vin number on the 4.30 gear auto and I was going to reflash mine using the engine calibration from that truck to end up with a 350/650 tuned engine. I was hoping since my truck now has 285/70X19.5 tires that the speedometer/tranny shifts would fall right back into place because of the 4.30 gear programming. Just haven't got the time the spend with friendly Ford tech. yet.
 

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Whitehorse Your truck is an Automatic?

Again, Ill repeat myself.... I HAVE 4.30 gears. manual trans . 325hp 600ft lbs.

If whitehorse is an automatic then The manual trans trucks are derated.

SlammedSi That is why I dont pay attention to hearsay. Ford techs SAY ALOT! usually alot of what they heard.....

Thanks for the replies guys! as soon as whitehorse confirms we will finally know the truth about the de-rated issue. Once we put that to rest I will get to the bottom of this tuner issue.

If you watch the DVD that comes with the truck it will tell you 250 and 350 have the higher HP numbers. The sticker I belive is green for the lower and pink for the higher.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
I watched the whole dvd and I didnt see anything like that... And what sticker are you talking about?

powerstroker67... Ok so now that pretty much satisfies my assumption... The manual transmission trucks are detuned. Autos are not.

now I just have to get a hold of Spartan.... I am sure this will be taken care of with the tuner delete...
 
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