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Instead of buying a Powermax with a 10-blade turbine and swapping it for a 13 blade turbine out of a Duramax, couldn't the same thing be accomplished by starting with a late 2004 Turbo?
 

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The Silent Service
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Discussion Starter #24
What altitude are you at now and what's the heaviest load you can hook up to after you get everything back together?
If memory serves, I can get about 10K behind me, however we're only talking around an elevation 1,500 feet. Next time I'm in my home state however, I'll figure out something more meaningful to pull 10,000ft+.

Interesting. So it's a Powermax + KC Stage 2 kit + Duramax turbine.

In other words, a KC Stage 2 and then change the turbine back to a 13 blade that is a bit larger than stock.
It sounds like a kc 1.75
Instead of buying a Powermax with a 10-blade turbine and swapping it for a 13 blade turbine out of a Duramax, couldn't the same thing be accomplished by starting with a late 2004 Turbo?
No, the exhaust housing sizes are different (smaller on the late 04)
Not quite sure I'd call it a Stage 1.75 or a Stage 2.25 (all depends on how you look at it). The turbine vanes are broader by about 1.5MM on the '03 and Powermax turbos than what I'm under the impression that KC uses for their Stage 2 - which is the '04 turbo. That should aid in my exhaust airflow enough in the lower RPMs to really spool this turbo nicely over the Powermax or KC Stage 2.

I expect better airflow out of the Powermax foundation and exhaust housing than I would see with a late '04 Turbo. The switch from the standard 10-Blade from the Pmax, to the comparable 13-Blade is to focus the benefits of spooling in the lower RPM band.
 

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I understand what you are going for, I'm just saying I thought the late 2004 13 blade turbine was the same size as the 2003-early 2004 10 blade. Are they not both a 66mm turbine? I've seen numerous references that it is larger than the 64mm 2005-07 13 blade turbines. Is the Duramax a larger turbine than both? It seems there may be conflicting information floating around.
 

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The Silent Service
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Discussion Starter #26
I understand what you are going for, I'm just saying I thought the late 2004 13 blade turbine was the same size as the 2003-early 2004 10 blade. Are they not both a 66mm turbine? I've seen numerous references that it is larger than the 64mm 2005-07 13 blade turbines. Is the Duramax a larger turbine than both? It seems there may be conflicting information floating around.
The '04 turbos shared the same diameters of around 72.5x66 inducer and exducer, however the 03 and Pmax turbines are slightly deeper, allowing for more surface area of each blade. The '05-'07 units were similarly built with a smaller 72x64mm diameter.
 

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The late 04 turbine inducer length is shorter which is paired with shorter vanes and vane posts.

If you stand up a Powermax vane next to an 04+ vane they have the same profile but the powermax vane is physically taller. The 03 and Powermax share the same vane height BUT they are a different profile which is why the 03 has a little more whistle than the powermax.

The LLY turbine has the same external dimensions as a powermax turbine but is 13 blades instead of 10.

I have had all these turbos apart, taken many pics of each but I have no way to host them. I possess an LLY turbine also as I had the same plans as our OP of making a badass stage 1.99 turbo. I came close but couldn't find the vanes I wanted (03 instead of Pmax)
 

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Motor Head.
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The late 04 turbine inducer length is shorter which is paired with shorter vanes and vane posts.

If you stand up a Powermax vane next to an 04+ vane they have the same profile but the powermax vane is physically taller. The 03 and Powermax share the same vane height BUT they are a different profile which is why the 03 has a little more whistle than the powermax.

The LLY turbine has the same external dimensions as a powermax turbine but is 13 blades instead of 10.

I have had all these turbos apart, taken many pics of each but I have no way to host them. I possess an LLY turbine also as I had the same plans as our OP of making a badass stage 1.99 turbo. I came close but couldn't find the vanes I wanted (03 instead of Pmax)
Question, so since the LLY 13 blade is bigger then a 04 13 blade, wouldn't it spool slightly slower or would it hardly be noticed ?
 

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The Silent Service
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Discussion Starter #30
Question, so since the LLY 13 blade is bigger then a 04 13 blade, wouldn't it spool slightly slower or would it hardly be noticed ?
Well in theory it would spool slower but shouldn't be slower than a 10 blade of the same size.
I'm expecting a minimal lag increase compared to the '05+ smaller turbine currently in the truck. With the RPMs I normally run, I don't forsee this to become a hinderence.

What has my curiosity, getting posed to do the installation is how much better is this turbine going to flow WOT compared to stock.
 

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Motor Head.
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Yeah I can see your point there especially with having 4:30s too.
 

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Did you get the truck up and running yet? I have had some people with interest in your turbo... it might make a special appearance in the KC Turbo line up for anyone interested.

I also might steal that pic to show off the new cover... My pics never turn out that well.
 

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Motor Head.
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Did you get the truck up and running yet? I have had some people with interest in your turbo... it might make a special appearance in the KC Turbo line up for anyone interested.

I also might steal that pic to show off the new cover... My pics never turn out that well.
I might be interested.
 

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Did you get the truck up and running yet? I have had some people with interest in your turbo... it might make a special appearance in the KC Turbo line up for anyone interested.

I also might steal that pic to show off the new cover... My pics never turn out that well.
I don't no why you didn't send me some tomahawk missiles to strap to the side of my truck with the new cover, those covers are bad ***:rod:
 

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The Silent Service
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Discussion Starter #35
Did you get the truck up and running yet? I have had some people with interest in your turbo... it might make a special appearance in the KC Turbo line up for anyone interested.

I also might steal that pic to show off the new cover... My pics never turn out that well.
Operational commitments have delay the actual install, story of my career. If the schedule holds - she is going into the truck first thing Saturday morning.

I will have the initial overview of this 'charger on stock programming done a few hours after. With a more in depth review of it over the Labor Day weekend.

Oh, and Charlie, don't bother steeling it, I'll send ya a copy in higher resolution.

I might be interested.
I apologize for the delay in results gentlemen. This 'charger has sat on my bench mocking me since I put it together.
 

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The Silent Service
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Discussion Starter #36
Today, my 6.0L lives again. . . as does my addition to modifications.

So, I took a standard circuit around town and logged my stock evaluation tune for the stock turbo before removing it permanently. First real time I've taken to dig deep into that engine, so it took me a number of hours to get everything out and everything back in without having to do it twice (though the exhaust v-band from the housing did require me to shut it down the first time). And I discovered that my stock hot-side CAC boots are cracked and needing replacement. I never noticed a loss of power, so I may have cracked them when I tore it down today.

Now, for what I did see this afternoon: This turbo is just what I've been looking for. Here's the huge shout out to Charlie from KC Turbos for recommending this combination. (Before proceeding there was an observed drop of around 25* at 65mph when first getting on the interstate, this turbo will run cooler when all is said and done. 65mph, 2200rpm, 10psi, 675-700*egt).

Observations:
Power: Smoother power band, as observed by the wife and myself (she was a great sport and helped me with the installation today). Between the IC Boots and the VGT relearn, I'm anticipating more power. The VGT duty cycle leaned further to the shut position (say 5-7% over what I'm used to observing). Plenty of power awaiting the tuners with this one.

Lag: Equal to stock, perhaps a little quicker based on a greater draw of air by the compressor. If you hit it on a rolling takeoff (say already on the interstate), boost is built quicker than stock.

Sound: Here was second largest reason I didn't run a traditional Powermax and call it a day. Under 10psi, you find a deeper exhaust tone. Between 10-20psi its spooling is more aggressive. Over 20psi (I nailed to the floor just once to see) there is definitely something different in the tone produced. Deeper than Stock, and none of the deafening whistle of the 10-Blades.

The specific numbers I took down include MAF, RPM, BOOST, MPH, ENGINE LOAD, VGT DUTY, and EGT. However, the turbo is still in the window for its VGT relearn, and I have the boots to replace - so specific side-by-side to stock will be a little later than expected.
 

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Motor Head.
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Sounds good.I may end up here too.
 

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Interested how this turns out
 

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The Silent Service
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Discussion Starter #40
Sounds good.I may end up here too.
Interested how this turns out
I've had a couple of days with the turbo, and I'm liking it more and more. I still can build 23psi with that crack in the IC boot. I feel the factory tuning is limiting the potential of this turbo. However, it runs well driving around town with this under stock Ford Programming.

Any plans for tuning?
Absolutely, I want to take full advantage of this turbo. My goals here are to take my time and see what solid numbers I can gain. Next step is going to get an FICM programmer, and reload my race file of the stock turbo before getting a newer Race-level file written.

The specific tuner for this project has yet to be determined.
 
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