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Discussion Starter #121 (Edited)
Well, I'd hoped for a smoking gun. Could you try insulating the oil filter? Obviously, with the oil cooler blocked 100% and only a 13* increase in temperature means heat is most likely being lost in other places as well.
Like I said, I'm willing to completely insulate and wall off the cooler to see if the mostly still air is cold enough to suck some heat out of the cooler try and get a larger delta than 13f. I can also insulate both the primary and bypass filters, either after or before I insulate the cooler, whichever you prefer. I don't think I'll be able to insulate the bypass tube unfortunately. Will there be any issues using standard fiberglass house insulation as an insulator? I'm concerned about fibers getting loose and clogging up the oil cooler, intercooler, or radiator.

We are in agreement that something besides the cooler is bleeding heat at this point, eh?

It might be time to start heating the cooler.

Oh, c'mon! That's kinda funny, right?

Very good experiment and data, @CM. I'm thinking that you are right about the 80%/100% wall. It would seem to be hitting some saturation limit.
DJ, the thought had crossed my mind in the past of using an electric heating element. But that's drawing energy from the vehicle and any MPG gains to be had by the warmer oil would be lost. I'd rather find a way to keep the heat the engine makes in the engine.

It makes sense that there would be little or no difference at that point. The larger the heat differential, the quicker the heat transfers. Explains why the drop was so big the first 20%, but the second drop was only half as significant.
 
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Sorry guys, it hasnt been that cold here as of late. From late January to late February was barely above 25*, and single digits below 0* every night.
The last week has been above 25*, with most days just above freezing.
Not sure how accurate my test would be.
And to be honest, when there is salt/slush on the roads, my truck doesnt leave the driveway............

Friday night looks to be the only period of below freezing for the next weeks forecast.

FYI- my t-stat just came in yesterday.
 
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Like I said, I'm willing to completely insulate and wall off the cooler to see if the mostly still air is cold enough to suck some heat out of the cooler try and get a larger delta than 13f...

DJ, the thought had crossed my mind in the past of using an electric heating element...

It makes sense that there would be little or no difference at that point...
I would worry about heat loss from the hoses more than anything else. My apologies if you already insulated them and I missed it.

I truly was just making a (bad) joke about heating the cooler.

Your tests are invaluable to understanding air cooling in a harsh environment. I appreciate the approach and level of detail.

...and your point about the gradient rings true.
 
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Discussion Starter #125
I'd have to disassemble it to insulate the lines, I'm not getting that crazy.
 

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I'd have to disassemble it to insulate the lines, I'm not getting that crazy.
I was thinking more of wrapping them. ...or using that split-tube foam pipe insulation in areas that don't get overly hot.

I'd stick with @DF76's recommendations first, though.
 

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Discussion Starter #127
I'd still have to disassemble everything to wrap them. A few of the lines are in places I can't reach.

I only managed to test with the primary filter wrapped today. Temps were only around 5f for about an hour. The result was rather interesting.

ECT was 182f, EOT was 156f. I'm a bit puzzled how the EOT got so low. It is much less humid today than it was yesterday, and there is significantly less wind. I'm wondering if either humid or wind could account for both the ECT and EOT being lower?
 

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IMO (as a former HVAC tech) humidity does play a role....
 

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I'd still have to disassemble everything to wrap them. A few of the lines are in places I can't reach.
I completely understand, @CM. I did not intend to imply that I thought that split-edge pipe insulation would be easy. ...only a better version of difficult.

I agree with @michaelaiman on the impact of humidity. Humidity impacts heat transfer - good or bad.
 

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Discussion Starter #130
I completely understand, @CM. I did not intend to imply that I thought that split-edge pipe insulation would be easy. ...only a better version of difficult.

I agree with @michaelaiman on the impact of humidity. Humidity impacts heat transfer - good or bad.
I figured it would have an impact. Would dryer air suck the heat out of the system faster than humid air?
 

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I figured it would have an impact. Would dryer air suck the heat out of the system faster than humid air?
I would have guessed that the lower humidity - in and of itself - would cause the heat to be retained more because of less efficient heat transfer characteristics from the BPD system components to the surrounding air.

Your data does not support that, so I am thinking that the source (engine) is changing its contribution. I am going to have to think about this more, but my first thought is this:

The EPA gives this correction factor for NOx output for CI on-road diesels for ambient humidity and temperature (CFR 86.345-79):

KNOx = 1 + 0.00446 (T - 25) – 0.018708 (H – 10.71)
Where T = ambient temperature, oC
H = ambient humidity, g H2O/kg of dry air​
Since higher temperature combustion yields lower NOx emissions, that says to me that combustion temperature decreases with lower humidity. That would reduce the cylinder head temperature and - so - the introduction of heat to the oil.

If so, it isn't that your oil is somehow rejecting more heat in a lower ambient humidity condition. I think that your engine is running cooler due to the lower humidity in the intake and heating the oil less. ...so there is simply less heat to get rid of.

Like I said... I will think more about this. This is just my first reaction to your data.
 
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Discussion Starter #132
I would have guessed that the lower humidity - in and of itself - would cause the heat to be retained more because of more efficient heat transfer characteristics from the BPD system components to the surrounding air.

Your data does not support that, so I am thinking that the source (engine) is changing its contribution. I am going to have to think about this more, but my first thought is this:

The EPA gives this correction factor for NOx output for CI on-road diesels for ambient humidity and temperature (CFR 86.345-79):

KNOx = 1 + 0.00446 (T - 25) – 0.018708 (H – 10.71)
Where T = ambient temperature, oC
H = ambient humidity, g H2O/kg of dry air​
Since higher temperature combustion yields lower NOx emissions, that says to me that combustion temperature decreases with lower humidity. That would reduce the cylinder head temperature and - so - the introduction of heat to the oil.

If so, it isn't that your oil is somehow rejecting more heat in a lower ambient humidity condition. I think that your engine is running cooler due to the lower humidity in the intake and heating the oil less. ...so there is simply less heat to get rid of.

Like I said... I will think more about this. This is just my first reaction to your data.
It would make sense. Like I said, ECT is slightly lower as well.
 

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It would make sense. Like I said, ECT is slightly lower as well.
I noticed that. The nice thing is that I didn't notice it until after I wrote my small dissertation. I was glad that the EOT shift fit the model. Not a proper vetting, but supportive, none-the-less

Because of your cold conditions, if your EGR isn't deleted, you might consider sticking a spool plug in place of your EGR valve or commanding it to be fully closed. The clean intake air would cause the combustion temps to rise. That would at least cause your engine to run as hot as it could and introduce more heat into the oil.

It is not a valid solution to all of this, but it would send the engine parameters - even subtly - in the right direction.

Edited to add...

Dang it. Just saw you are deleted. I will leave this for any casual readers.
 

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Discussion Starter #134
I noticed that. The nice thing is that I didn't notice it until after I wrote my small dissertation. I was glad that the EOT shift fit the model. Not a proper vetting, but supportive, none-the-less

Because of your cold conditions, if your EGR isn't deleted, you might consider sticking a spool plug in place of your EGR valve or commanding it to be fully closed. The clean intake air would cause the combustion temps to rise. That would at least cause your engine to run as hot as it could and introduce more heat into the oil.

It is not a valid solution to all of this, but it would send the engine parameters - even subtly - in the right direction.

Edited to add...

Dang it. Just saw you are deleted. I will leave this for any casual readers.
Cart before the horse man... :rofl:

EGTs did seem a little low on this run as well. So it further supports your argument. But I wasn't monitoring them as diligently so the difference could be a matter of oversight.
 

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Cart before the horse man... :rofl:
Ya ya. :) Just because you have a fancy schmancy BPD oil cooler doesn't mean that you might not still have an operational EGR system.
 

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Discussion Starter #136
Actually I have a BPD EGR cooler. When I bought my truck it had a delete. Worried about enviro weenies I decided to get the cooler to bring my truck back into compliance. I guess whomever did the delete drilled out the coolant port, so the BPD cooler constantly leaked. Re-installing the delete stopped the leaks (and keeps my intake cleaner).

If it ever comes up, I'll play it dumb and tell them the truck came that way and I couldn't tell the difference.
 
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Re-installing the delete stopped the leaks (and keeps my intake cleaner).

If it ever comes up, I'll play it dumb and tell them the truck came that way and I couldn't tell the difference.
So you put in the EGR cooler and then had to pull it back out?! If you did the work yourself, there's some character building for you!!

Be sure to stick the EGR cooler in a cargo box or behind the seat. That way - if you are ever asked - you can say, "Oh yes, officer. My truck has a proper and legal EGR cooler in it."
 

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Discussion Starter #138
So you put in the EGR cooler and then had to pull it back out?! If you did the work yourself, there's some character building for you!!

Be sure to stick the EGR cooler in a cargo box or behind the seat. That way - if you are ever asked - you can say, "Oh yes, officer. My truck has a proper and legal EGR cooler in it."
I've pulled the top off my block 6 times... Pretty sure I could do most of it blindfolded now.

Actually I was considering selling it. I was holding onto it so that I could install it on a friends 250 when it needs it's OC done... But now that BPD has come up with a better cooler design I'll probably have them order that when the time comes. Said friend wants to keep their truck as stock as possible... Justifying a coolant filter and a coolant swap was like pulling teeth, so a delete is a no go. BPD EGR cooler looks stock so that's what it'll be. -.-
 

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I've pulled the top off my block 6 times... Pretty sure I could do most of it blindfolded now.
Got it to your engine exploits. That's great.

Funny about your friend resisting your attempts to install crazy things like coolant filtering.

I'm imagining you affixing a Motorcraft sticker to a BPD EGR cooler to convince him to let it go on. :)
 

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Discussion Starter #140
Got it to your engine exploits. That's great.

Funny about your friend resisting your attempts to install crazy things like coolant filtering.

I'm imagining you affixing a Motorcraft sticker to a BPD EGR cooler to convince him to let it go on. :)
He is a she. And she wants to do the sun run when her truck is old enough to be a "Classic." Only way it's going to get that old is by unscrambling the known issues.

Dieselfab - Oddly enough we're not forecast to get below 20f over the next few weeks. After that it's spring. I don't know what more data I will be able to provide. I hope what I've been able to give you helps you guys come up with a solution. If all else fails, I'll be here next winter if you need more data logged.
 
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