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Discussion Starter #1
First off thanks in advance because everyone is always super helpful. So I have a 2006 f250 with a 6.0. I bought the truck after it was in an accident and I need to have the frame repaired. So most of the truck is torn apart. The guy I bought it from said he just put in a new oil cooler, egr delete and had the turbo rebuilt recently. Since its so far apart I wanna add some ARP studs. Can I simply pull out one old stud and then put in a ARP stud and torque it down and do this for all of them. Or do I have to pull the head all the way? As of now it has now issues this is just a preventive step. Also I believe ARP has a few different type is studs is there anyone you recommend?
Thanks again.
Dylan
 

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You definitely need/want to pull the heads off. If nothing else, you want to have the heads examined for stress cracks, etc. I've heard of people replacing OEM bolts/studs one at a time (with dubious results...), but never replacing with ARP studs...
 

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Have you driven the truck yet? If not how can you tell/know that the Head gaskets are not compromised. If it was me in your shoes I would step up and take the heads off, machine them, get new OEM head gaskets, Get the standard ARP bolts for the 6ohs and do it right while your in there the FIRST time.

To much regret, I will say I was in the SAME position as you when I got mine. It had engine problems and I replaced the whole engine... I thought about and decided against arps while the engine was out... Now a year later look at my sig picture:doh: (the heads are off and I'm doing ARP's)

It would have been SOOO much easier to do it while the engine was out or if it was taken apart already. learn from a fool, do it ONCE, do it correctly!!!!
 

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Pull the head.

There is only one way I would do studs one by one.

And thats if the gaskets were recently done with TTY bolts and you have proof that they arent blown
 

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We're probably gonna do my brother in laws 1 by 1.

But his gaskets and heads were replaced under warranty less than 1k miles ago
 

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I just got done doing the 1 for 1 swap leaving the heads alone thing and here is why I went that route. I did not have the money to get the heads done if I did pull them. I do not know of a shop for 150 miles around that I would trust to do them. And knowing my luck the head would be junk and Id have to buy brand new ones anyway so back to the no money left after buying the full Bullet proof diesel oil cooler kit...And last but not least the heads were not showing sign's of failing,so I rolled the dice and went the cheap route.
Should I have done a full head job? Maybe who knows. Only time will tell. Good luck!
 

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If I were in your shoes and didn't know the health of the truck I would do the full job rather than doing then one at a time. However if you are 100% certain that your gaskets are fine then you could do them 1 at a time.
 

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If I were in your shoes and didn't know the health of the truck I would do the full job rather than doing then one at a time. However if you are 100% certain that your gaskets are fine then you could do them 1 at a time.
Id have to argue that the only way you would know for sure...is a visual inspection that could only be done by removing the head. Just to nit pick the point.:haha:
 

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Id have to argue that the only way you would know for sure...is a visual inspection that could only be done by removing the head. Just to nit pick the point.:haha:
In regard to the actual heads I agree with you 100%. The gaskets on the other hand, you know if they are blown. :p
 

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So, after reading a bunch on this topic, and listening to people talk about them being warped or cracked or whatever, I can honestly say, that after literally machining hundreds of these heads, I can say that it's like the "occupy movement" haha, 99% of your heads are going to be cracked, and the 1% that's not...and probably 75% are warped, but less than .002", and the other 25% is wapred about .005" or less. That being said, Navistar calls the cracks "micro-fizures"...and says they're ok, and while this might be true, we don't send them back out with cracks...we always cut the crack out and press a hardened seat in the seats that are cracked (not a sales pitch). But I've never seen a crack on one of these motors that actually goes into a water jacket, not one. While the crack can lead to a burned valve, or loss of compression, even if only slightly, it's not like cracks in old school 350 chevy heads, or small block/big block ford heads that are likely to be cracked into a water jacket...these castings are think around the deck surface (much thicker than a 6.4 by the way.)

Anyway, what I'm getting at is of course the vast majority of heads evaluated by a competent machine shop can have some faults, but rarely ones that will keep it from running. Oh, and if you don't think that (10) 14mm bolts/studs torqued to well over 200 ft/lbs will make the head absolutely flat (or at least as flat as the deck surface of the block)...you'd be wrong. It doesn't take that much pressure to "warp" these things by .001-.002". So, from a mechanical standpoint, if the gaskets aren't leaking, and they carefully did it one by one, it should work, and yes, possibly even fix a slight leak, at least for a while. Still not "right"...and I'd still always recommend milling the heads, and much though it is impractical, mill the block to as long as we're talking about being perfect. (I don't think the ford techs at the dealership, or anywhere else for that matter are checking "RA-roughness average" or the surface finish, or straightness after they wire wheel the block's deck surface before they slap the new gaskets on)...and some of these trucks have had 2, and 3 sets of head gaskets on them.

All that being said, I might actually try the one by one approach when I dive into it to change the injectors. Sad, as the one expense that keeps people from doing it "right" is free to me (sorry if that sounds conceded, didn't mean for it to)...but if it works, it saved lots of extra time and work, if not, I'll really go through the heads the way they should be anyway. It worked for lots of other people.

sorry for rambling again...I gotta quite drinking...however this truck isn't exactly helping me with that, lol.
 

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Also, just real quick, we had a guy building engines for us years ago, long before we sold engines online, but anyway, he thought he memorized the torquing sequence for a 12v cummins, but he memorized it wrong, and we sent out 3 or 4 motors that came back with blown head gaskets we had to warranty, soley because of tightening the bolts in the wrong sequence, and damaging the head gasket in the process. That was a cummins, which is kinda different, but not really.

In what order are you guys that attempted this taking out the head bolts and swapping for a stud? Are you removing reverse of the tightening sequence, and then after the first torque or 130, or 170 or whatever it is going back to the original arp torque patter? Just curious what worked for ya'll.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Thanks for all the great responses so far keep em coming. Seams like so people say go for it if money is tight while others never would lol. Keep em coming I gotta make a decision in the near future. I'd love to hear if anyone has done this like I wanna and has gotten some mikes on the motor.
 

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So my truck is torn down right now as well. I had no known head gasket issues but I went ahead and pulled the heads off while I was doing injectors, HPOP update, oil cooler, etc. If the truck only had 60k miles on it I might have thought twice. But once you get 120k+ you are going to be thinking about valves and the like. So to me while you are torn down do it now as opposed to waiting and having to take the truck out of service again.
 

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The first thing to consider is if your gaskets are good. If not or if not sure don't do it. It will be a waste of time. I have helped one of my friends do studs one at a time but we knew 100% that the head gaskets were good, and he has 45000 miles on the studs now.

I pulled my heads even though my gaskets weren't bad, I am looking at making some serious hp though. Bigger turbo probably a MTW 2 or 3 and bigger injectors, I wanted to start fresh and make sure everything is perfect. When I pulled the heads the gaskets were good just as the tests had shown.

Believe me this is not a job you want to do twice.
 

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Although the one-by-one method appears to be successful in the short time people have been doing it, I'm not a supporter. For starters, you have no idea what shape the heads or gaskets are in. Second, you're breaking the head / gasket / block seal, even if its only one bolt. Finally, the TTY bolts are tightened to only 23 ft/lbs. Even if you torque the stud to the first value (70 ft/lbs), that's over three times what every other bolt is torqued to.

Just my $.02, and I'm not an expert.
 

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Although the one-by-one method appears to be successful in the short time people have been doing it, I'm not a supporter. For starters, you have no idea what shape the heads or gaskets are in. Second, you're breaking the head / gasket / block seal, even if its only one bolt. Finally, the TTY bolts are tightened to only 23 ft/lbs. Even if you torque the stud to the first value (70 ft/lbs), that's over three times what every other bolt is torqued to.

Just my $.02, and I'm not an expert.
Not to sound like an A hole, but if you think the factory bolts are only torqued to 23 ft/lbs that leads me to believe that you've never broken one loose. There's also +90* either 2 or 3 times additional to the initial torque. The initial torque on both the tty and the arp's is just to set the proper crush on the gasket, so you don't torque one bolt to 200+ ft/lbs while the ones next to it arefinger tight.

I've already said (again, not to sound condescending or arrogant) but already said that everyones heads are likely to be cracked, warped, and less than stroker... definitely if you're running a tuner...I'd bet my next paycheck. If there's no loss of coolant, and no burping of the coolant reservoir, I'd say tyats evidence enough for me to try it...on mine anyway. 60k ago mine had gaskets and oil cooler and hpop done under warranty, no evidence of leaking gaskets yet,, so I might try it. I did have a bad leaking egr cooler, and while I'm not sure exactly how much I buy into the head bolts stretching because of water in the cylinder theory, I don't doubt that it could have happened. That's why I'm considering it on mine...not tryin to persuade others, like I said ive bad mouthed it before I really considered it. Could breaking the head bokts loose one at a time upset the gasket, certainly, look at what i said about the Cummins gaskets the guy we fired was doing but not likely.
 

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Funny that you preface your comments by saying "not to sound like an A-hole" and then make no effort to not sound like one. :hehe:

My truck has been studded since 2007, so its been a long time since I've removed a TTY bolt. I'm sure you're well versed in the TTY install, and I pulled that number off the ARP instructions: "OEM bolts". Which was obviously a mistake on my part. That's what I get for posting before the caffeine has kicked in. :D

Like I said (and this isn't directed at you), I don't believe the one-by-one method is a good idea, but those who have done it have had some short term success. Time will tell if this method holds up after more miles are logged. Just my opinion, and others should take it as just that: an opinion.

I agree with you 100% on the heads likely being either being cracked or warped, even if there are no symptoms yet. Personally, if I'm spending $400 on head studs and taking the time and effort to do the job, I'll do everything I can to make sure I only have to do it once.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
Sounds like I'll probably get the heads checked. Any idea what I can expect as far a a price to get em check or whatever?
 
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