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Discussion Starter #1
I'm starting to think about a new truck to replace my 97 Powerstroke extended cab F250 4x4. My truck is in great shape and has been bulletproof so far but, I only have 75,000 miles on now.

I really like the new F350 crew cab 4x4 long box because my kids are now teenagers and I need a bit more legroom and I haul a huge pickup camper. I dang near bought a new F350 this spring but elected not to (even though it was a great deal).

I have read consumer reports and (surprise) let's just say they aren't big fans of the newer Ford heavy duty trucks. I also have heard of some issues with the 6.0L Powerstroke. So, are the new 6.4 Powerstrokes turning out to be a good reliable motor? How are the trucks holding up?

Thanks Guys
 

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well i can't offer much knowledge yet, i just sold my 05 6.0 today and bought a 2010 crew cab f250 with 6.4. but i can tell you my 6.0 was a good truck i put 131k on it in 4 years. in the shop twice. once for a minor oil leak in front and recently for another high pressure oil leak. one was warranty and the other cost me 900 dollars. i only bought new because my work requires i have truck less than 4 years old. either way if your ready for a new truck i would stick with ford
 

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Sure they are if you get rid of the emissions crap. But that could cost you as much as the whole truck in fines.
 

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I would think it is wayyyy too early to lable them one way or the other...
 

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Wanna trade trucks? Lol if only you were looking for a 2wd auto with a few more miles and an extended cab were big enough. Would be perfect for a big truck camper though. :dunno:
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Thanks guys! The new Powerstrokes are really starting to appeal to me!

I would think the 6.4 has been out as an 08, 09 and the 2010s are either here or on the way, so there should be at least some idea if they are reliable or not by now.
 

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Maybe wait another year and see how you like the scorpion 6.7 :icon_ford:
 

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Don't be fooled. The 6.4 is no where near as reliable as the 7.3 and the reason is the emissions on the new trucks is garbage. However, I knew this when I traded my 7.3 for the 6.4 and I have no regrets. The new trucks are awesome!!

It would be impracticable to even consider there will be no issues with a first year engine like the 6.7 and lets not forget it will be manufactured in Mexico. :doh:
 

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The 7.3L was/is legendary in its reputation for long life, durability and dependability. Even though it had less overall power than the smaller 6.0L, it was not saddled with many of the emissions-related troubles. Ford, however, did work out some of the bugs with the later 6.0L engines. The 6.0L trucks also -from what I read on this board - were sold with a better automatic transmission than what came with the 7.3L Fords.

That being said, any 7.3L truck you find for sale will still be at least 6 or 7 years old by now; so it might not be quite up to snuff when compared to a new truck.

The 6.4L engine seems to be dependable and tough - not to mention powerful; but it seems as though the electronics and emissons (DPF, etc.) stuff handicaps its overall capability. International has made good trucks and great engines for decades, even those blocks that are installed in Ford trucks. Problems with the 6.4L are probably just as much the fault of the EPA/gov't as Ford or Navistar.

With the upcoming 6.7L "Scorpion" engine, Ford may still have some tough times following the EPA regulations and there is a chance that they'll gum it up so much that aftermarket tuning could be next to impossible. The bureaucrats are well aware of the desire of truck buyers to 'tweak' engines through bypassing or eliminating federally-mandated emissions equipment.

If you can find a good, reliable used 7.3L truck and are willing to put some cash into keeping it running strong, go for it. Otherwise, save up and get a 6.4L. With as many millions of miles these trucks have on the road, Ford & Navistar must have done something right. They still outsell and outlast the GM & Dodge competitors by a long shot!

UPS and FedEx have thousands of 7.3L-powered (DT444e) International delivery trucks out there every day - and they seldom break down. If that block can pull a truck weighing up to 10 tons gross (when packed full), it should have no problem functioning as the heart of a pickup truck.


P.S. Too bad the 3/4 ton Toyota Tundra with the Caterpillar diesel fell through. That might have been an interesting concept.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
So, I'm guessing here that the 6.7 Scorpion motor must be the new "Ford built" inhouse diesel engine Ford has mentioned in the past?

It must be being built in Mexico because that is where their engine manufacturing plant happens to be?

Is Ford replacing the 6.4 because of issues or simply because they make more money building and selling their own engine vs. one built by another manufacturer (International)?
 

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So, I'm guessing here that the 6.7 Scorpion motor must be the new "Ford built" inhouse diesel engine Ford has mentioned in the past?

It must be being built in Mexico because that is where their engine manufacturing plant happens to be?

Is Ford replacing the 6.4 because of issues or simply because they make more money building and selling their own engine vs. one built by another manufacturer (International)?
Ford and Navistar split ways due to the cost of the 6.0 warranty repairs. The 6.4 as designed now won't meet future emmissions regulations without further emmission modifications.

From what I understand it is a brand new diesel engine plant in Mexico. Why... cheap labor.
 

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Don't know why Ford is doing it "in house" versus getting the engines from Navistar.....but perhaps they can make it for less money and not have to charge six thousand dollars over their gasoline engine.

Just my guess!

As for building it in Mexico, why not? I guess labor is cheaper - and they already have plants there and elsewhere in Latin America.
:dunno:


** Good night to all of you!! **
 

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Ford and Navistar split ways due to the cost of the 6.0 warranty repairs. The 6.4 as designed now won't meet future emmissions regulations without further emmission modifications.

From what I understand it is a brand new diesel engine plant in Mexico. Why... cheap labor.
Great now there gona be like Chevys!
 

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Discussion Starter #15
My 7.3 is sounding better all the time. :woot:

Now if I could just get my teenage sons legs to quit growing, I wouldn't need a new truck. :thumb:

My 7.3 doesn't have a lot done to it but, it seems to have more than enough power to do what I ask it to do. I have a do it yourself intake with a big round Napa filter, a 75 hp chip, combination EGT/Boost gauge, my catalytic converter seems to have run off, 3" round downpipe, Rancho RS9000 shocks, Firestone airbags, Line X bedliner, etc.

Thanks for all the great info guys!
 

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I think its to early to tell but I'm at 100,000.00 now and 52,000.00 of that was DPF deleted (150hp tune) and I'm fixing to upgrade to a few higher hp tunes (RCD, Innovative) so we shall see if i have to push it home one day or not.
 

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i have 65,000 miles on mine and no problems so far, 48,000 miles were with my dpf installed. We have several 08/09's at work and radiators on the 1st trucks but otherwise nothing yet
 

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Regardless of past experience, simple matter of fact is that the 6.4L and the 6.7L have base design technologies that make the engine itself simply and absolutely more reliable than the 7.3L. I can name off a laundry list of features and design principles (much longer than the list of emissions devices that can be named on either engine) that are simply engineered out and eliminated many of the inherent design flaws of the previous models.

Main caps instead of bedplates. 2 valves per cylinder. HEUI injection instead of common rail. Forged or "old school" PMR rods vs. the newer, infinitely stronger PMR technology used now. Traditional poured cast iron crankcases instead of compacted graphite iron. Standard cylinder honing vs the newest machining procedures and cylinder wall/ring technology that triples piston seal lifespan. We could go on for days.

Poor emissions technology of the newer engines can be solved by the end user with the proper application of a set of $15 wrenches from Autozone and the download of a new program. The inherent technological deficiencies listed above cannot be unbolted or "undone" in any reasonable manner; all of which are absolutely and purely related not only to power output and drivability, NVH (noise, vibration and harshness) but ultimately to the lifespan of the engine itself given a certain power output. If the question is reliability, the old technology loses- period. The "well I had xxx,xxx miles on my 7.3L and it never gave any problems at all! And it would tow a house!" response in no way, shape, or form overcomes this fact.

There are a lot of negative comments concerning the new vehicles that spawn from the following reason-
1.) Person making statement does not understand the vehicle/engine discussed.
2.) Person making statement is intimidated by mentioned vehicle/engine because they do not understand it.
3.) Person making statement doesn't know how to work on vehicle/engine, and makes negative statement because this moves them into category 1 and/or 2.
4.) Person making statement is simply too stubborn to accept change, and likely falls under all categories above. (sadly, the most common reason)
5.) Person making statement has a legitimate complaint based on a bad experience with vehicle/engine of discussion. Which, statistically, there are FAR more examples of this with the 7.3L for no other reason that more of them have been manufactured and most still exist.

If a person chooses to drive an older vehicle because they have one that they simply like or have had for a long time and simply wish to keep, that is a perfectly valid reason for the choice. Simple personal preference; there are a hundred valid reasons to justify that. Reliability/durability is one that factually, got ran over by the common sense train- its allegorical guts are still rotting on the tracks, stinking, just as they have since the first forum bashing of the new engines began. I still have a 6.0 truck, which admittedly is broken more than it runs (we've abused it, badly) but I still keep it- simply because I like it. No particular reason, it is a pain in the ***. I just like it. Enough reason for me.

Most "bashers" I see of the new engine technology not only fall under the categories listed above, but for some reason also seem to feel secretly inconfident about why they still have an older vehicle and use it as an argument/discussion point to justify their decision by trying to argue it is inherently "better". Which is honestly a pathetic justification.

To the OP, given the reasons you have posted for looking at a new truck. The 6.4L will do you better than the 7.3 in every department. If you don't mind parting with your current vehicle (for whatever reason) go trade. You won't bother looking back.
 

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Regardless of past experience, simple matter of fact is that the 6.4L and the 6.7L have base design technologies that make the engine itself simply and absolutely more reliable than the 7.3L. I can name off a laundry list of features and design principles (much longer than the list of emissions devices that can be named on either engine) that are simply engineered out and eliminated many of the inherent design flaws of the previous models.

Main caps instead of bedplates. 2 valves per cylinder. HEUI injection instead of common rail. Forged or "old school" PMR rods vs. the newer, infinitely stronger PMR technology used now. Traditional poured cast iron crankcases instead of compacted graphite iron. Standard cylinder honing vs the newest machining procedures and cylinder wall/ring technology that triples piston seal lifespan. We could go on for days.

Poor emissions technology of the newer engines can be solved by the end user with the proper application of a set of $15 wrenches from Autozone and the download of a new program. The inherent technological deficiencies listed above cannot be unbolted or "undone" in any reasonable manner; all of which are absolutely and purely related not only to power output and drivability, NVH (noise, vibration and harshness) but ultimately to the lifespan of the engine itself given a certain power output. If the question is reliability, the old technology loses- period. The "well I had xxx,xxx miles on my 7.3L and it never gave any problems at all! And it would tow a house!" response in no way, shape, or form overcomes this fact.

There are a lot of negative comments concerning the new vehicles that spawn from the following reason-
1.) Person making statement does not understand the vehicle/engine discussed.
2.) Person making statement is intimidated by mentioned vehicle/engine because they do not understand it.
3.) Person making statement doesn't know how to work on vehicle/engine, and makes negative statement because this moves them into category 1 and/or 2.
4.) Person making statement is simply too stubborn to accept change, and likely falls under all categories above. (sadly, the most common reason)
5.) Person making statement has a legitimate complaint based on a bad experience with vehicle/engine of discussion. Which, statistically, there are FAR more examples of this with the 7.3L for no other reason that more of them have been manufactured and most still exist.

If a person chooses to drive an older vehicle because they have one that they simply like or have had for a long time and simply wish to keep, that is a perfectly valid reason for the choice. Simple personal preference; there are a hundred valid reasons to justify that. Reliability/durability is one that factually, got ran over by the common sense train- its allegorical guts are still rotting on the tracks, stinking, just as they have since the first forum bashing of the new engines began. I still have a 6.0 truck, which admittedly is broken more than it runs (we've abused it, badly) but I still keep it- simply because I like it. No particular reason, it is a pain in the ***. I just like it. Enough reason for me.

Most "bashers" I see of the new engine technology not only fall under the categories listed above, but for some reason also seem to feel secretly inconfident about why they still have an older vehicle and use it as an argument/discussion point to justify their decision by trying to argue it is inherently "better". Which is honestly a pathetic justification.

To the OP, given the reasons you have posted for looking at a new truck. The 6.4L will do you better than the 7.3 in every department. If you don't mind parting with your current vehicle (for whatever reason) go trade. You won't bother looking back.
:thumb::thumb:
 
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