Ford Powerstroke Diesel Forum banner

1 - 20 of 22 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
49 Posts
Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
I was wondering if anyone has switched over to Evans waterless coolant and if they have what they think of it. I'm still trying to locate a supplier in Canada. However if a lot of people like it I'll import from the states
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
264 Posts
Yes, I am.

Works Great.

http://www.powerstroke.org/forum/general-6-0l-discussion/179946-evans-coolant.html

Lots of good information in that thread. There's a lot of misinformation out there from people who have never actually tried it early on in the thread, that is quite well debunked later. I highly recommend reading the WHOLE thread.
I chose to put my money where my mouth is, and actually try it.
So far, all the fears that have been mentioned have been unfounded, including the rediculous 'Omg its flammible, its gonna explode as soon as you get a leak'. :crazys:

I personally had a Evans coolant leak directly on a hot exhaust manifold, and if just steamed off like any other coolant would have. No fire, no explosion, and best of all, had it been normal coolant that had leaked, I probably would have lost a lot more due to it being pressurized, and possibly require immediate service/a tow/etc. Since it was non-pressurized, After I noticed the leak, I continued driving it home, parked it in the driveway, and drove it to the shop to get the hose replaced the next day. If I REALLY wanted to, I could have put Duct Tape over the hose, and it would have held, but the leak was barely more than a slow, steady drip, so I opted not to do that.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
49 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
Thanks for the heads up it is an awesome thread. If you don't mind me asking how long did it take you to get <3% water and are you still running with a hole in your degass cap?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
154 Posts
I used it...it eats brass, so any fittings (Temperature sensors, etc) look like they were sand blasted after awhile.

It stinks like poo....BAD!!!

I still have one full jug that I will never use...

I believe I got mine from Edmonton.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
49 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
I find it hard to believe that was a result of the waterless coolant. It must have been a containment or a high water content resulting in cavitation. NPG+ is a propylene/ethylene glycol mix. Neither chemical will cause brass corrosion. If you could give more details perhaps we could narrow down the cause of your issues.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
264 Posts
I took it on a 2000 mile trip hauling 14k lbs a week after the swap. During the trip I had to top it off twice, since then, it's been solid. Yes, I still have the hole in my Degas cap, no reason that I can see to replace it, it's not going to evaporate out, and if there's any water still left in there, I'd want it to still be able to get out.

I also don't see how it could 'eat brass', as like glueballs said, it's just PG/EG, which is in normal coolants as well.

I will agree with what was said in that thread though, Evans will clean out your system, so much so, that any leaks that are clogged by gunk, and therefore not leaking, will have the gunk removed, and start leaking :lol:. I had a couple drip spots after I swapped, but they were all hoses that probably should have been replaced long ago anyways. Nothing major, and it was just that, some drips. No worries about high-pressure, boiling, spraying leaks with evans.

Just keep an eye on your engine bay for a week or so after swapping, as you check the level and top off. look for wet spots around hoses, especially the EGR cooler hose up there, thats where my biggest leak was. I Definately recommend adding a coolant filter kit as well at the same time, as all that gunk that will get cleaned out by the coolant, will be circulating. Makes it nice and easy to clean it up with a filter!

To me, there were just too many benefits to Evans compared to normal coolant.

Pros:

No Corrosion (no water!)
No Pressure (no boiling! no water!)
Near ZERO chance of an EGR Failure Ever (because it needs pressure to pop it)
No Oil Cooler Gunk (Either Due to Silicates or To Glyoxal creation, depending on which theory you follow)
Less stress on cooling parts due to less pressure
No chance of a coolant hose/radiator blowout/rupture. Leaks are just drips that can easily be patched with duct tape until you can get to where you need to go.

Cons:

Cost
Availability
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
9,154 Posts
Cons: if the Evans will clean and loosen any residue/scale/sand/debris after you already did a flush, you take a chance of clogging up the very small coolant passages in the oil cooler.

Keep an eye on your ECT/EOT delta, it may not happen instantly, but over time. Even if you use a coolant filter, a coolant filter is a bypass system designed to only filter 10% of the coolant at any given time.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
264 Posts
Cons: if the Evans will clean and loosen any residue/scale/sand/debris after you already did a flush, you take a chance of clogging up the very small coolant passages in the oil cooler.

Keep an eye on your ECT/EOT delta, it may not happen instantly, but over time. Even if you use a coolant filter, a coolant filter is a bypass system designed to only filter 10% of the coolant at any given time.
That Con is there for Any coolant change, as altering the chemistry of your coolant system will inevitably change what gets deposited, and what gets picked up and carried around by the coolant. Especially with running flush cleaners like Restore, VC9, etc through. Those things are designed to lift off scale and residue, and yes, you attempt to flush it out as much as possible, but there will always be some left. That's why it's recommended to do your flush on the old oil cooler first, and also to run a coolant filter.

I did a complete flush, installed a filter, and ran Evans on my old cooler for a week before changing my cooler actually (my old cooler was functioning fine, it wasn't blocked, I had a 7 degree delta. I changed it because the seals around it were leaking. Figured once everything was off already, might as well). Also, the kind of Gunk that plugs up the cooler is either silicates or Glyoxal, depending on which theory you follow, not necessarily scale or casting sand. I'm more referring to it breaking down and dissolving other elements, not necessarily the 'goo'. (See http://www.powerstroke.org/forum/general-6-0l-discussion/218377-analysis-coolant-goo-sorta.html for the Glyoxal discussion and the chemical breakdown of the 'goo' found in an Oil Cooler)

I'd personally recommend running a flush, and changing to Evans on your current oil cooler as I did (as long as it's not TOO fargone. Remember, simply switching to Evans will prevent flash-boiling and pressure, your EGR cooler is now much safer, even with higher deltas, than with normal coolant), installing a coolant filter as well, run for a few days to a week, and THEN changing your oil cooler, after the Evans has run through it decently, and hopefully everything that's going to come loose, does, and gets grabbed by the filter. Is it more work? Yes, but if you do it this way, you should never need to change an oil cooler or an EGR cooler ever again.

If your oil cooler is partially clogged, there is VERY LITTLE risk of EGR Cooler rupture anymore with Evans due to the much higher boiling point, and zero pressure system. At that point I'd be more concerned about hitting Defuelling level on EOT than EGR Failure. The only reason I say VERY LITTLE, and not NO RISK, is because the EGR Cooler is the one point where the Evans could possibly even come close to hitting it's boiling point. Even so, even if it did boil, any pressure created would immediately be vented out of the zero pressure system. If you Combine Evans with an EGR Delete, you'd have pretty much rock-solid protection. If you delete the EGR, the only reason left to change the oil cooler would literally be hitting Defuel level due to it being clogged. Defuel level being around 250 degrees, which is still 120 degrees LESS than the boiling point of Evans. No risk of blowing your oil cooler.

The problem I think most people are having is you have to completely rethink how your cooling system works when you remove water from it. It now has zero net pressure across the whole system (yes, the pump will create some positive pressure on the output side, but it will also create an equal amount of negative pressure on the inlet side, net 0 pressure across the system.) No net pressure means nothing can 'blow' anymore.. 370 degree boiling point means your engine oil will actually breakdown BEFORE your coolant even comes close to it's boiling point. It literally is just a flow of liquid that circulates through your engine, and can cause little to no damage on it's own anymore.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
9,154 Posts
Dicion, being that Glueballs is a new member, I had to point out a "con" of flushing out the coolant system in order to switch to another coolant. Either way, he needs to monitor his ECT/EOT delta before or after a coolant flush.

Please keep us (the members) posted with your results after switching to Evans. Thanks!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
264 Posts
Dicion, being that Glueballs is a new member, I had to point out a "con" of flushing out the coolant system in order to switch to another coolant. Either way, he needs to monitor his ECT/EOT delta before or after a coolant flush.
Oh, absolutely! Not a problem pointing it out at all :thumb:
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
6,293 Posts
Pros:

No Corrosion (no water!)
No Pressure (no boiling! no water!)
Near ZERO chance of an EGR Failure Ever (because it needs pressure to pop it)
No Oil Cooler Gunk (Either Due to Silicates or To Glyoxal creation, depending on which theory you follow)
Less stress on cooling parts due to less pressure
No chance of a coolant hose/radiator blowout/rupture. Leaks are just drips that can easily be patched with duct tape until you can get to where you need to go.

Cons:

Cost
Availability
Dicion;
Once you notice that you are no longer having to add the NPG+ to the degas bottle (and we assume that all the water is now out), would you send a sample out? I am very curious as to how low the water content gets when converting the cooling system in this manner. There is an address in that lengthy Evans Coolant thread. If I recall correctly, the analysis is free and all that is required is about a tablespoon full.



Ok, so I'm sitting here and read through that thread about the Glyoxyl and how that byproduct is created.
Correct me if I am wrong, but it is created by high heat, ethylene glycol and copper (or Silver) all coming together.
Since the Evans is a blend of Propylene and Ethylene glycols, could this Glyoxal reaction happen to this coolant as well? You still have the three things necessary for its creation, right? High heat, ethylene glycol and copper.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
264 Posts
Dicion;
Once you notice that you are no longer having to add the NPG+ to the degas bottle (and we assume that all the water is now out), would you send a sample out? I am very curious as to how low the water content gets when converting the cooling system in this manner. There is an address in that lengthy Evans Coolant thread. If I recall correctly, the analysis is free and all that is required is about a tablespoon full.
I will do so! I still need to change my thermostat, I'll pull a sample then and send it out!
Ok, so I'm sitting here and read through that thread about the Glyoxyl and how that byproduct is created.
Correct me if I am wrong, but it is created by high heat, ethylene glycol and copper (or Silver) all coming together.
Since the Evans is a blend of Propylene and Ethylene glycols, could this Glyoxal reaction happen to this coolant as well? You still have the three things necessary for its creation, right? High heat, ethylene glycol and copper.
You're forgetting the third part of the reaction. Oxygen. With no water in the system, there is no oxygen if the coolant boils (which it shouldn't do hardly at all compared to normal coolant). You need oxygen to oxidize. No oxygen means no oxidation means no Glyoxal. Granted, there will be a small amount of oxygen exposed in the degas bottle, but according to Evans, even if the coolant boils, it should re-condense back into a liquid in the engine, and not have to make it to the degas bottle. Even so, in a worse case scenario, even if Glyoxal was produced from Evans boiling, and reaching the degas bottle, it would still be Much less produced than standard coolant in the same situation, which would have much more vapor produced, much more oxygen exposure, and much more production of Glyoxal if the theory is correct..

Regardless, it would still be best probably to have an EGR delete for maximum protection. there is Nowhere else in the engine that should even come close to the boiling temperature of NPG+. As I said before, your stand pipes will melt, and your oil break down before you hit Evans boiling point in your engine.

Personally, I still don't know which is correct, the silicates, or the Glyoxal, or maybe something completely different. If I knew of a place where to get the substance mass spec'd to find out, and I had a cooler to dig it out of, I would gladly do so! If anyone wants to send me some clogged coolers for some testing, I'd be more than willing to extract some goo and find and send it to a lab for proper analysis. Even better if I could get half a dozen samples from different people. That way, if theyre all the same, we pretty much would know for sure what it was, and then could track it down better.

It is sort of interesting that the goo only seems to form in the Oil Cooler, which also happens to be one of the very few Aluminum parts in the cooling system, and apparently Aluminum can contain a small percentage of copper.... I dunno. Time to bust out the High School Chem hat!
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
6,293 Posts
I think the results of the analysis would be a great addition to that long thread about this coolant, along with a "back story" about how you accomplished the conversion.
I keep saying that "one day" I will get around to doing the conversion. Just that at this particular moment in time, that won't happen anytime soon. Too many "pokers in the fire" as they say.
I am happy to see that at least someone has used that research and wasn't fearful of all the hype that was thrown about previously.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
264 Posts
I am happy to see that at least someone has used that research and wasn't fearful of all the hype that was thrown about previously.
Actually, it was mostly your counterpoints and questioning of established thoughts on NPG+ in that thread that led me to really want to try it out. As you remember, everyone seemed to have a biased opinion against it with absolutely nothing but heresay and rumor behind it. You were the one who challenged them on it and did the legwork to prove most of it false.

Because of that, I decided that it was no more risky that running normal coolant, and could potentially be much, much better. Based on that, it was a no-brainer to try it. People complain about the cost of $200 worth of coolant, but routinely throw around recommendations for studs all day long. It just doesn't make sense when spending a little on one could possibly prevent needing to do the other for much more expense.

If money and time were no object, I'd buy half a dozen brand new oil coolers, and test them with different coolants, and at different temperatures, and see if I could get the 'goo' to form with heat and boiling coolant alone.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
27 Posts
Hey guys i recently converted to evans and i am having cab heat issues. 05 6.0
I live in canada, and its cold out but with the original coolant i never had any issues like this
My coolant temp is only getting up to 195. I have changed my tstat. No improvement. As soon as i stop and idle my heat drops off! Rev it up it comes back. Anyone else have this issue?
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
6,293 Posts
Sounds like it is not a coolant issue, but rather a waterpump issue.
The stock impeller is a known weak point. The impeller will spin independent of the shaft, and could be your underlying problem.
195° is exactly where you want to be, coolant temp wise.

Check this out for what is likely the best waterpump out there:
[ ] Bullet Proof Diesel Billet Water Pump, Ford 6.0L Diesel
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
49 Posts
Discussion Starter #17
Still haven't converted my truck over but I started having heat issues in my 06. Coolant temp is staying good. I'm thinking it may be my heater control valve screwing up. I have heat until outside air hits -25 and after that I struggle. Truck will be warm when I start it but after driving cab temp drops. Will troubleshoot when I'm not working so much wearing longjohns until then.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
3,940 Posts
1 - 20 of 22 Posts
Top