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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Its been a while but im back. This will be for everyone to understand what takes out the 6.4l fuel system and how to prevent it. If that even posible. Proper maint is key and i mean if your running a stock frame pump change filters every other oil change and the reason i say this is that the water seperator screen is the most important thing in this system as you will see the damage is expensive. i would personaly run a aftermarket water seperator for this motor i will not pick one as there are many salutions out there for you to find and choose from. But lets start with symtoms. If you guys p.m. me salutions ill gladly list them in this write up or if you can think of anything else p.m. me and ill ad it.

1) Intermittant misses cold or hot
2) p0088 p0087 or low icp codes
3) Intermittant no start or no power

These are a few things. Now for the nitty gritty first thing to check is your upper fuel bowl. IF YOU HAVE rust or brown film in the outer part of the fuel bowl you have had water ingress and for a good period of time NOT GOOD because it gets worse from here. I dont have a picture of this but i do for all the rest.

From this point there is no sence in beating around the bush just remove the valve covers. While you have them off inspect your rockers good tappets look like one on left bad the one on right



Moving on this will check for F.O.D. or metal in your fuel rails,get a black top to brake clean or what ever and go to your no 1 and no 2 injectors and open fuel lines being carefull to let the fuel drain into the tops if there is metal it will look like this.



If it looks like that OUCH is all i can say. all of this metal is from the CP-3 or high pressure pump and makes its way to all 8 of your injectors and its from water. Water cavitates swash plate and peels the metals away. Once this starts it doesnt stop. This is what it looks like when water goes through a cp3





If you look closely you can see water droplets

Metal even migrates to injector and cups and pools




I did have picture of cup but lost it but you get idea from injector.
As for the fuel rails i actually take them apart and run magnet through them and flush them and ive never had issue. This is what the metal that isnt flushed look like in rail.



For this repair to be effective you need to replace frame pump. replace fuel cooler. flush return lines from front of heads. You really should flush tank. I cant say enough how important it is to seperate the water with a good seperator. 600.00 bucks vs 8000.00 isnt that bad.

I hope this helps you all.
 

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Great thread great write-up!!!

Add one thing: lots of folks don't realize these rigs have coolant sleeves the injector rests in... It's a good idea to swap those when you're in there.. I do believe they can be pulled and tapped back in w/ heads on, but won't swear to that, I've never done it or seen it done, but have read about it.

Appreciate the info!!! I'm a huge proponent to clean fuel... I'm obsessed with it, actually, and polish my fuel at least three times before it even goes to the main tank.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Great thread great write-up!!!

Add one thing: lots of folks don't realize these rigs have coolant sleeves the injector rests in... It's a good idea to swap those when you're in there.. I do believe they can be pulled and tapped back in w/ heads on, but won't swear to that, I've never done it or seen it done, but have read about it.

Appreciate the info!!! I'm a huge proponent to clean fuel... I'm obsessed with it, actually, and polish my fuel at least three times before it even goes to the main tank.
Yes they call them injector cups. Cleaning them is really all thats needed.
 

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As I have leraned time and time again... Opening your mouth and getting un fkd is the best way to learn. Great write up, always nice to see these.
 

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Nice writeup Dale. This thread is now a sticky.
 

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I may actually go pull my upper filter tomorrow (again) and completely wipe it out to see if I get any rust at all. When I did my filters I didn't see anything, but light wasn't great.
 

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250k on my 6.4, with no fuel pump, high pressure pump or injector issues. I always change the fuel filters and properly bleed the system. Fuel starvation to the the injector pump will ruin it. I've run veg oil, bio diesel, engine oil, all through my truck as well.
 

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So what is a good water separator to add to our trucks???
 

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My unit had no rust signs in the filters but I am running the Ford Fuel cetene treatment always (although the truck is new to me) Own a marina and have access to Racor Diesel filters with water seperators. Would these work; if so what flow per minute should I be looking at.
 

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Being this is a sticky at the top of the page, Just a small correction, "all of this metal is from the CP-3 or high pressure pump" The 6.4 actually uses a Model K16 Hi Pressure Fuel Pump made by Siemens VDO (which was bought by Continental AG) both German companies. The CP3 pump is made by Bosch, another German company & is used on the Durmax's & Cummins.

Here is a little info on HPFP pumps on Common rail systems;

Understanding and Modifying High-Pressure Fuel Pumps for Cummins, Duramax, and Power Stroke Engines
 

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Great thread great write-up!!!

Add one thing: lots of folks don't realize these rigs have coolant sleeves the injector rests in... It's a good idea to swap those when you're in there.. I do believe they can be pulled and tapped back in w/ heads on, but won't swear to that, I've never done it or seen it done, but have read about it.

Appreciate the info!!! I'm a huge proponent to clean fuel... I'm obsessed with it, actually, and polish my fuel at least three times before it even goes to the main tank.
Yes they call them injector cups. Cleaning them is really all thats needed.
I always replace injector cups when I replace injectors. Surely you don't install new injectors on old cups?
 

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As far as an aftermarket water separator goes, what specs do I need to look at (GPH)?
 

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I have a 2010 6.4 PSD that I just finished installing a brand new motor in, hindsight is always better as I found out that the hpfp is what originally took out the first motor and I didn't know that so I put a bad pump in a new motor. Anyway, I have since replaced the hpfp, all eight injectors, the fuel cooler, the lpfp, pulled the tank and washed and flushed, cleaned and flushed the return lines and heads before removing the contaminated injectors, replaced both fuel rails, all delivery tubes, new banjo bolts and washers, and replaced both turbos as well. Then I bled the fuel system from the cooler like it's supposed to be done, got it started and running again. My problem is that I'm still getting the " reduced engine power" and wrench light with code P252F which is oil level too high. The oil level is only at the half mark so I know it's not that. I pressure tested the cooling system overnight and only lost about two pounds, but no sight of coolant on the ground or in the exhaust or in the oil which should mean I don't have an egr leak that's feeding the injectors. So I'm at a loss on why it's doing this. The truck is completely stock, still has all the egr and dpf, only mod is ARP head studs.
 

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As far as I understand, when the hpfp starts to come apart, the shavings get spread throughout the entire system, this can cause an injector to get hung up which is what the injector shop told me happened to mine. When the injector gets stuck in the open position, it dumps fuel into that cylinder causing a hot spot on the piston. In the case of my engine it melted the top of the piston on one side which caused the top compression ring to seize and break, and then take a chunk out of the bore.
 

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You pretty much hit it......

Metal from the hpfp gets into the injector causing it to hang open.... This causes a blow torch effect within the cylinder, melting the piston and valves...................
 

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My '09 F250 with 6.4L & 130K (I've put 80k on it) miles is sitting in the shop now having the complete fuel system replaced. I wanted to add this little tidbit. The ONLY indication I was having of any problem, was a very (I mean 3 times over 3 months) short period of rough running and loss of boost. The truck wouldn't hold on cruise, and you might have been able to hold highway speeds by gently feathering the pedal. If you pushed the pedal past 1/4 of the way, the truck would bog and act as though it was going to shut down. Here's the problem... No warning lights present during any of these 3 incidents. I could shut the truck off, and it wouldn't repeat for a long time. I took it to the shop, and no codes were present or recorded. After speaking directly with the tech and describing in detail my experience, he got into the fuel system and found the telltale metal shavings. I can tell you that I've been changing my oil/filters every 5k miles, and fuel filters every other oil change. I've never put DEF (question asked by Ford) or gasoline in my truck. It appears that I just had terrible luck as local Ford dealer says that this specific type of failure (not user initiated) is extremely rare. Extended warranty is covering all except $1400 of the $9k repair. Kind of gun shy now as I've done everything required and STILL have this problem. I've also routinely run Stanadyne through about every other or every 3rd tankful of diesel. If anybody has any additional recommendations to avoid this other than selling my truck, I'd sure appreciate it. I need to make this work for a while.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
My '09 F250 with 6.4L & 130K (I've put 80k on it) miles is sitting in the shop now having the complete fuel system replaced. I wanted to add this little tidbit. The ONLY indication I was having of any problem, was a very (I mean 3 times over 3 months) short period of rough running and loss of boost. The truck wouldn't hold on cruise, and you might have been able to hold highway speeds by gently feathering the pedal. If you pushed the pedal past 1/4 of the way, the truck would bog and act as though it was going to shut down. Here's the problem... No warning lights present during any of these 3 incidents. I could shut the truck off, and it wouldn't repeat for a long time. I took it to the shop, and no codes were present or recorded. After speaking directly with the tech and describing in detail my experience, he got into the fuel system and found the telltale metal shavings. I can tell you that I've been changing my oil/filters every 5k miles, and fuel filters every other oil change. I've never put DEF (question asked by Ford) or gasoline in my truck. It appears that I just had terrible luck as local Ford dealer says that this specific type of failure (not user initiated) is extremely rare. Extended warranty is covering all except $1400 of the $9k repair. Kind of gun shy now as I've done everything required and STILL have this problem. I've also routinely run Stanadyne through about every other or every 3rd tankful of diesel. If anybody has any additional recommendations to avoid this other than selling my truck, I'd sure appreciate it. I need to make this work for a while.
Get rid of the lpfp and put on a fuel pump that you like set it to 8 to 10 psi and install a water separator in front of it even if fuel pump module has one. i did 3 like this and none have failed yet! one has 155k on it and it going strong. sorry i haven't been on but divorce SUCKS!! the best way to see if injectors are going south is to look at the trim on each injector it will either be + or _
 
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