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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I’m getting frustrated with my (usually) dependable 2006 ford 6.0L. It has 400k miles, but engine was recently swapped for a 2005 engine with 100k miles on it.
new intake gaskets. Sinister CAC tubes and intercooler boots. Recently installed stainless uppipesTurbo is brand new with new VGT solenoid. new ford MAP sensor and new MAP hose. Removed the intake port for MAP hose today and reamed it out with wire and reinstalled. Haven’t yet given the same treatment to EBP sensor. I removed the intercooler and inspected for bursts but found none, installed it back into the truck.
Took it for a test drive after installing turbo, only getting 5-8 psi (estimated) on boost gauge in instrument cluster.
Up a long hill at wide open throttle I was able to get it to go up to just a CCH over the 10psi tick mark on the boost gauge.
I feel like I’ve been over everything. I’m scratching my head for potential problem areas I haven’t looked into. Need to check wiring to VGT
 

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Did this problem just start after the engine swap or did it run correctly for a bit before the problem happened? What is your EBP, MAP, BARO, & VGT% KOEO, at idle, and when the problem happens?

Real-time numbers are much cheaper than the parts cannon :D

-jokester
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Did this problem just start after the engine swap or did it run correctly for a bit before the problem happened? What is your EBP, MAP, BARO, & VGT% KOEO, at idle, and when the problem happens?

Real-time numbers are much cheaper than the parts cannon :D

-jokester
It did seem to run fine for the first 400 miles if I remember properly. Then, the problem started. Changing the turbo today made it so I can actually drive up the hill to work without a stack of cars behind me, so I wonder if it was/is VG solenoid/wiring related. The turbo I removed was a reman Garrett unit but VGT duty cycle was stuck at 45% even after removing the turbo, cleaning the unison ring and coating heavily with high temp anti-seize. It would run down to 32-ish% at wide open but I couldn’t get more than a couple psi out of it on the boost gauge in the cluster.
At last read, the MAP wouldn’t climb in voltage but otherwise read normal pressure—close to baro.

The problem is constant: low boost. Maybe 8psi.
 

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2004 F250 SD 6.0 and 2003 F250 6.0
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Boost is MAP+Baro+EBP… in simple terms. As stated above, those readings KOEO will tell a tale. I can almost guarantee your EBP sensor-harness needs attention (try cleaning it first) as well as the tube and couplers (clogged with soot). A boost leak can also be present. Best to perform a leak test while you’re troubleshooting. I’ve shared this a few times the last month or so… the guy was awesome:
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Boost is MAP+Baro+EBP… in simple terms. As stated above, those readings KOEO will tell a tale. I can almost guarantee your EBP sensor-harness needs attention (try cleaning it first) as well as the tube and couplers (clogged with soot). A boost leak can also be present. Best to perform a leak test while you’re troubleshooting. I’ve shared this a few times the last month or so… the guy was awesome:
Hey Ryan, thanks. I don’t know if I’m equipped to do a leak test. I’ve thought about adding a manual boost gauge to the output of the turbo, to see what boost pressure is prior to going into intercooler. shrug it might help me diagnose where the rest is going, whether the turbo isn’t building it or it’s bleeding off.
I do need to remove the EBP sensor and ream the tube out. The harness has been checked and wrapped in electrical tape to prevent chafing. I’ve got 400k miles on the truck and can’t risk wiping out the harness.
 

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2004 F250 SD 6.0 and 2003 F250 6.0
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I backtracked in another post so I’ll do the same here. The boost equation doesn’t necessarily include EBP. I just use it as an illustration. Any time I have a performance issue, I think back to basics and those three things appear as an equation in my head.

If performing a boost leak test isn’t feasible, you can always start with a basic cac tube and boot inspection. For me, splits in boots have always been at the “bottom” (closest to engine). The intercooler is also a potential source of leaking. “Passenger” side more often than not.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 · (Edited)
I backtracked in another post so I’ll do the same here. The boost equation doesn’t necessarily include EBP. I just use it as an illustration. Any time I have a performance issue, I think back to basics and those three things appear as an equation in my head.

If performing a boost leak test isn’t feasible, you can always start with a basic cac tube and boot inspection. For me, splits in boots have always been at the “bottom” (closest to engine). The intercooler is also a potential source of leaking. “Passenger” side more often than not.
The boots and intercooler pipes are recent sinister diesel parts. When first installed (prior to engine swap) they were great.
I squeezed the boots yesterday to check for leaks and they didn’t collapse. I checked the clamps too, they’re straight and tight. I have a new intercooler I’ve been meaning to install but haven’t got around to it yet
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 · (Edited)
Did this problem just start after the engine swap or did it run correctly for a bit before the problem happened? What is your EBP, MAP, BARO, & VGT% KOEO, at idle, and when the problem happens?

Real-time numbers are much cheaper than the parts cannon :D

-jokester

Using Autel MaxiSys 906BT
KOEO
EBP 0.89
Exhaust pressure absolute 100.75
Exhaust pressure desires 22.5
MAP sensor 1 100.75
MAP Sensor 2 1.3V (0-5V range)
Baro 1. 157.36
Baro 2. 99.91
Baro 3. 99.91
Baro 4 3.37V (out of 5V)
Vgt 0 no fault

At idle
EBP 0.89
Exhaust pressure absolute 100.75
Exhaust pressure desires 22.5
MAP sensor 1 99.75-100.5 variance
MAP Sensor 2 1.3V (0-5V range)
Baro 1. 157.36
Baro 2. 99.91
Baro 3. 99.91
Baro 4 3.37V (out of 5V)
Vgt 44.99 (0-100 range) <- % duty cycle?

Driving up hill
EBP 1.8
Exhaust pressure absolute ~175
Exhaust pressure desired
MAP sensor 1 ~ 130
MAP Sensor 2 ~1.7 (0-5V range)
Baro 1. 156.59
Baro 2. 98.22
Baro 3. 98.22
Baro 4 3.37V (out of 5V)
VGT very slow descent to 25ish %

This truck went from the best truck I’ve ever owned to POS and I can’t make sense of it myself
 

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VGT duty cycle is a command value from the PCM -- that does not mean that the turbo is following that command
-- what makes this change is the MAP and EBP sensors
you need to be reading the voltage from those sensors - since the PCM can make up pressure numbers, if the sensor is out of spec in the reading
 

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What Units are those reading in ?

EDIT
nevermind kpa
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
VGT duty cycle is a command value from the PCM -- that does not mean that the turbo is following that command
-- what makes this change is the MAP and EBP sensors
you need to be reading the voltage from those sensors - since the PCM can make up pressure numbers, if the sensor is out of spec in the reading

I tried to include voltage readings where they were shown. The scantool didn’t say Voltage for the unit but I am inferring it based on value. MAP sensor never got over 1.7V. It’s a new MAP… so what’s that about?
 

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1.4 - 1.7 is about right for idle speed
you will no build much boost pressure (higher voltage in the MAP sensor) until there is load (and speed) on the engine to spool the turbo

Sure there is not a leak on the exhaust before the turbo ? or on the charge air side ?
 
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If the vanes are "stuck" then you can usually tell by monitoring the truck. VGT duty cycle will either be stuck at .15 or .85



Here is another test to see if your vanes are cycling. This a simple test, just plug and unplug the vgt solenoid while the truck is idling. You should easily hear the vanes cycle and exhaust note change. If you hear no change (assuming all your sensors are working properly) then we can try to work the air out of the system. Repeat this process a few times, unplug and plug the solenoid back in. THEN tap on the vgt solenoid with a hammer (the metal part that sticks out of the front of the turbo through the bracket, NOT the plastic clip), then tap on the back of the turbo where the vgt cavity is (see picture below where the red arrow is pointing). Then unplug and plug the vgt solenoid back in. Do this 4 or 5 times to see if it gets the vanes cycling. EVEN WHEN the vanes start to cycle you can continue the process a few more times to get the air worked out of the system.




After you get the vanes cycling I would RELOAD the same tune. That way it resets the KAM and it will re learn the vane position and shifitng points. I would then do a trans relearn which will also help with a turbo relearn.

Set the truck back to stock (unload the tune).
Unplug the batteries and let it sit for an hour
Touch the positive to negative cables a few times to make sure all the power is drained.
Plug the batteries back in and load the tune
Spend a minute sitting there idling and moving the shift lever from P to R to N to D to N to R to P etc.
Then go for a drive. Take it easy and stay under 1/4 throttle for about 10 minutes. Make sure it is stop and go driving so the tranny can shift through the gears.
After about 10 minutes the do a couple of 1/2 throttle runs. Then do a couple 3/4 throttle runs. Then finally do a couple of WOT runs.



After that I would suggest double checking for boost/exhaust leaks. Even brand new parts can get misaligned and leak.

Exhaust leaks are a big problem. Bigger turbos will usually make leaks worse. Check the ypipe bellows and the ypipe to turbo connection. Those are very common. An easy way to check it would be to have someone stick the truck in drive, hold the brake, and give it some gas. Push the pedal as hard as you can without causing the truck to move. Look for any smoke coming out from behind the turbo. If you see any smoke then you need to find and fix the leak. It is best to be running a race tune and just MASH the throttle, then when the tire are about to spin let off and try again. You want to produce black smoke if possible because it is easier to see.

Watch this video to see how to check for exhaust leaks https://youtu.be/nOpO4gGS0vc

Watch this video to see how to fix common 6.0 exhaust leaks https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lxvcg7piROI

Boost leaks are also a big problem. The most common areas are the boots on the charge pipe, plastic ends on the intercooler, and the plastic hot side charge pipe on the drivers side. If you have a plastic charge pipe on your drivers side then replace it ASAP. They will not hold up under high boost. We recommend pressurizing the intake to test for leaks. Pressurize through the turbo inlet up to about 20-25psi and listen for leaks. The best option is a boost leak detector from a boost leak detector. Here is a link.

https://kcturbos.com/products/kc-boost-leak-detector-powerstroke-cummins-duramax



Pull and check all of the following sensors. Use your programmer to make sure they are reading right.

BARO sensor is located under the dashboard. Make sure it is plugged in and reading right. The BARO reads barometric pressure. Depending on your elevation it varies from 13.9-14.5 typically.

MAP sensor located on passenger side by the air box. Make sure the tube going from the sensor to the motor is not cracked. Make sure the tube and sensor are clean and not clogged up. The MAP sensor should read the same as the BARO sensor with the key on engine off. Then as you build boost it should go up with boost. The boost sensor actually reads off of the MAP sensor, but it subtracts BARO to get boost. So (MAP - BARO = Boost).

MAF sensor is located between the air filter and turbo. Make sure it is clean and plugged in. It should read zero #/min with the key on engine off and it should go up as you accelerate. Make sure it is not stuck on any certain number

EBP sensor is located off the exhaust manifold on the drivers side. There is a tube going from the exhaust manifold to the sensor. It is very common to clog and have issues. Clean out the tube and make sure the sensor is not clogged. EBP should read 0psi with the key on engine off. Then it will go up with boost. EBP will always be 5-15psi higher than boost when acceleration. There is no set number for EBP, just make sure it is not stuck on any certain number. NOTE: SCT devices will not read EBP psi correctly... but you can still uses it to figure out your issue.
45-50psi on your SCT is really 0-1psi
100-120psi on your sct is really 10-15psi
170-180psi is really 37-40psi

IAT sensor is connected to the top of the intake manifold near the fuel bowl. Pull it out and make sure it is clean. It is very common to get covered in crap. Clean it and make sure it is connected right.

VGT solenoid. The vgt wire/pigtail are very common to have cracks, slices, and breaks in it, especially right where it plugs into the solenoid. Double check everything to make sure it is working right. An easy way to check and see if it is working right is while the truck is running. plug and unplug the sensor. You should be able to hear the exhaust sound changing when you do that. Your VGT duty cycle is only reading "desired vgt" NOT actual!!!... that that is only reading what the computer is requesting. .14 is all the way open and .85 is all the way closed. It should never be stuck on any number. (but a stuck number does not always mean stuck vanes, for example if you vanes are all the way open (rumble at idle) and the vgt duty cycle is stuck at .14... then the vanes are not stuck, the computer is commanding the vanes open because there is another sensor not reading right and the computer is trying to compensate for that.



These don't relate directly to boost but it is still a good thing to check. They can really hurt performance.
ICP sensor
IPR
FICM (make sure voltage is good)

YouTube boost leak video
https://youtu.be/Jyj3nQOxAJY
 

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Just to add to the above post
you can use ForScan to operate the vanes in the turbo
this is an easy way to exercise them to loosen any carbon deposits
 
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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
1.4 - 1.7 is about right for idle speed
you will no build much boost pressure (higher voltage in the MAP sensor) until there is load (and speed) on the engine to spool the turbo

Sure there is not a leak on the exhaust before the turbo ? or on the charge air side ?
1.7V is going uphill at wide open in 3rd gear. It should be 5V
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
1.4 - 1.7 is about right for idle speed
you will no build much boost pressure (higher voltage in the MAP sensor) until there is load (and speed) on the engine to spool the turbo

Sure there is not a leak on the exhaust before the turbo ? or on the charge air side ?
exhaust is a new stainless Y-pipe, new stainless pipes to turbo. I made triple sure that the y-pipe to turbo surfaces were properly mated when I installed the turbo. I’ve inspected the charge air side and found no visual leaks.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
If the vanes are "stuck" then you can usually tell by monitoring the truck. VGT duty cycle will either be stuck at .15 or .85



Here is another test to see if your vanes are cycling. This a simple test, just plug and unplug the vgt solenoid while the truck is idling. You should easily hear the vanes cycle and exhaust note change. If you hear no change (assuming all your sensors are working properly) then we can try to work the air out of the system. Repeat this process a few times, unplug and plug the solenoid back in. THEN tap on the vgt solenoid with a hammer (the metal part that sticks out of the front of the turbo through the bracket, NOT the plastic clip), then tap on the back of the turbo where the vgt cavity is (see picture below where the red arrow is pointing). Then unplug and plug the vgt solenoid back in. Do this 4 or 5 times to see if it gets the vanes cycling. EVEN WHEN the vanes start to cycle you can continue the process a few more times to get the air worked out of the system.




After you get the vanes cycling I would RELOAD the same tune. That way it resets the KAM and it will re learn the vane position and shifitng points. I would then do a trans relearn which will also help with a turbo relearn.

Set the truck back to stock (unload the tune).
Unplug the batteries and let it sit for an hour
Touch the positive to negative cables a few times to make sure all the power is drained.
Plug the batteries back in and load the tune
Spend a minute sitting there idling and moving the shift lever from P to R to N to D to N to R to P etc.
Then go for a drive. Take it easy and stay under 1/4 throttle for about 10 minutes. Make sure it is stop and go driving so the tranny can shift through the gears.
After about 10 minutes the do a couple of 1/2 throttle runs. Then do a couple 3/4 throttle runs. Then finally do a couple of WOT runs.



After that I would suggest double checking for boost/exhaust leaks. Even brand new parts can get misaligned and leak.

Exhaust leaks are a big problem. Bigger turbos will usually make leaks worse. Check the ypipe bellows and the ypipe to turbo connection. Those are very common. An easy way to check it would be to have someone stick the truck in drive, hold the brake, and give it some gas. Push the pedal as hard as you can without causing the truck to move. Look for any smoke coming out from behind the turbo. If you see any smoke then you need to find and fix the leak. It is best to be running a race tune and just MASH the throttle, then when the tire are about to spin let off and try again. You want to produce black smoke if possible because it is easier to see.

Watch this video to see how to check for exhaust leaks https://youtu.be/nOpO4gGS0vc

Watch this video to see how to fix common 6.0 exhaust leaks https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lxvcg7piROI

Boost leaks are also a big problem. The most common areas are the boots on the charge pipe, plastic ends on the intercooler, and the plastic hot side charge pipe on the drivers side. If you have a plastic charge pipe on your drivers side then replace it ASAP. They will not hold up under high boost. We recommend pressurizing the intake to test for leaks. Pressurize through the turbo inlet up to about 20-25psi and listen for leaks. The best option is a boost leak detector from a boost leak detector. Here is a link.

https://kcturbos.com/products/kc-boost-leak-detector-powerstroke-cummins-duramax



Pull and check all of the following sensors. Use your programmer to make sure they are reading right.

BARO sensor is located under the dashboard. Make sure it is plugged in and reading right. The BARO reads barometric pressure. Depending on your elevation it varies from 13.9-14.5 typically.

MAP sensor located on passenger side by the air box. Make sure the tube going from the sensor to the motor is not cracked. Make sure the tube and sensor are clean and not clogged up. The MAP sensor should read the same as the BARO sensor with the key on engine off. Then as you build boost it should go up with boost. The boost sensor actually reads off of the MAP sensor, but it subtracts BARO to get boost. So (MAP - BARO = Boost).

MAF sensor is located between the air filter and turbo. Make sure it is clean and plugged in. It should read zero #/min with the key on engine off and it should go up as you accelerate. Make sure it is not stuck on any certain number

EBP sensor is located off the exhaust manifold on the drivers side. There is a tube going from the exhaust manifold to the sensor. It is very common to clog and have issues. Clean out the tube and make sure the sensor is not clogged. EBP should read 0psi with the key on engine off. Then it will go up with boost. EBP will always be 5-15psi higher than boost when acceleration. There is no set number for EBP, just make sure it is not stuck on any certain number. NOTE: SCT devices will not read EBP psi correctly... but you can still uses it to figure out your issue.
45-50psi on your SCT is really 0-1psi
100-120psi on your sct is really 10-15psi
170-180psi is really 37-40psi

IAT sensor is connected to the top of the intake manifold near the fuel bowl. Pull it out and make sure it is clean. It is very common to get covered in crap. Clean it and make sure it is connected right.

VGT solenoid. The vgt wire/pigtail are very common to have cracks, slices, and breaks in it, especially right where it plugs into the solenoid. Double check everything to make sure it is working right. An easy way to check and see if it is working right is while the truck is running. plug and unplug the sensor. You should be able to hear the exhaust sound changing when you do that. Your VGT duty cycle is only reading "desired vgt" NOT actual!!!... that that is only reading what the computer is requesting. .14 is all the way open and .85 is all the way closed. It should never be stuck on any number. (but a stuck number does not always mean stuck vanes, for example if you vanes are all the way open (rumble at idle) and the vgt duty cycle is stuck at .14... then the vanes are not stuck, the computer is commanding the vanes open because there is another sensor not reading right and the computer is trying to compensate for that.



These don't relate directly to boost but it is still a good thing to check. They can really hurt performance.
ICP sensor
IPR
FICM (make sure voltage is good)

YouTube boost leak video
https://youtu.be/Jyj3nQOxAJY
I don’t necessarily want to be tapping the new VGT solenoid with a hammer, I’m reasonably certain it functions. The scantool shows it moving from 45% to 30%

I’ve loaned out my tuner cable so I don’t have the ability to change my tune right now.

no trans relearn I don’t think for a manual trans. Correct me if I’m wrong.

My IAT was covered in crap when I installed the engine a few months ago. I didn’t replace it but tried to clean it. Could it cause low boost?
 

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I don’t necessarily want to be tapping the new VGT solenoid with a hammer, I’m reasonably certain it functions. The scantool shows it moving from 45% to 30%

I’ve loaned out my tuner cable so I don’t have the ability to change my tune right now.

no trans relearn I don’t think for a manual trans. Correct me if I’m wrong.

My IAT was covered in crap when I installed the engine a few months ago. I didn’t replace it but tried to clean it. Could it cause low boost?
FYI - There is no feedback on the VGT solenoid position (similar to the IPR). That is a commanded value ONLY. The only way to see if it's actually moving is using the IDS and the doohickey fixture thing that they have to test.

-jokester
 
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