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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
2006 f450 only has 96xxx miles
I’ve replaced dummy plugs and stand pipes, rebuilt both high pressure oil rails, new (updated) stc fitting, new icp sensor, and new ipr. When air test it holds 160 psi and I don’t hear any leaks. Truck still takes forever to crank and doesn’t build pressure until into 15-20 seconds into cranking it does out of nowhere and starts. Any thoughts?
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
OEM oil filter cap with an OEM oil filter?
Oil level good, not low and not high?
Yea all motorcraft filters and is right at full on the dipstick, has low oil pressure when cranking filter housing fills when cranking and drains as it should and shows on the dash it has low oil pressure when cranking.
 

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You didn't confirm the OEM oil filter "cap". A tall cap and an OEM filter can cause your problem.
 

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So, was the truck run for any length of time with a tall cap and an OEM filter? If so, this will starve the oil flow system because the drain valve at the bottom of the oil filter housing will not close (ie you will have a constant drain to the crankcase). This MIGHT starve the HPOP, and IMO it increases the chance of an HPOP failure.

If you try to use a tall filter with the OEM cap, it can break the drain valve and/or the oil filter standpipe.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Swapped over an oem cap from another truck and still does the same thing.
So, was the truck run for any length of time with a tall cap and an OEM filter? If so, this will starve the oil flow system because the drain valve at the bottom of the oil filter housing will not close (ie you will have a constant drain to the crankcase). This MIGHT starve the HPOP, and IMO it increases the chance of an HPOP failure.

If you try to use a tall filter with the OEM cap, it can break the drain valve and/or the oil filter standpipe.
caps seem to be the same height and both trucks have the same oem motor craft filter so I don’t think that’s the issue. Gonna pressurize it to 800psi with nitrogen and see if I can hear a leak then.
 

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When it's cranking, what's the RPM? Is the engine cranking even or does it speed up/slow down on certain cylinders? What is your ICPv KOEO and when cranking? What is your IPR% doing as well?

Pull the oil filter and hold down the drain valve with a screwdriver. Use the remote start wire and crank the engine over (keys out of ignition). How fast does the oil filter housing fill?

Good reference...

-jokester
 

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Man I hate to think of 800 psi Nitrogen. Using a gas for leak checking is great because the gas molecule is so much smaller than the oil molecule, and viscosity is lower (and so is surface tension for that matter). That said, gas is compressible (high stored energy) and if you blow through an o-ring because the gas molecule is small, you may damage a seal that is currently just fine. At best you could show a leak that really isn't a leak with oil - even at the much higher oil pressures.

As to the filter cap - there is enough doubt as to what I am reading that I would like to see a picture of the oil filter cap!
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
So, was the truck run for any length of time with a tall cap and an OEM filter? If so, this will starve the oil flow system because the drain valve at the bottom of the oil filter housing will not close (ie you will have a constant drain to the crankcase). This MIGHT starve the HPOP, and IMO it increases the chance of an HPOP failure.

If you try to use a tall filter with the OEM cap, it can break the drain valve and/or the oil filter standpipe.
Also truck runs fine once started just takes 20 seconds to crank over
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Man I hate to think of 800 psi Nitrogen. Using a gas for leak checking is great because the gas molecule is so much smaller than the oil molecule, and viscosity is lower (and so is surface tension for that matter). That said, gas is compressible and if you blow through an o-ring because the gas molecule is small, you may damage a seal that is currently just fine.

As to the filter cap - there is enough doubt as to what I am reading that I would like to see a picture of the oil filter cap!
Left work already I’ll put a picture in here tomorrow.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
When it's cranking, what's the RPM? Is the engine cranking even or does it speed up/slow down on certain cylinders? What is your ICPv KOEO and when cranking? What is your IPR% doing as well?

Pull the oil filter and hold down the drain valve with a screwdriver. Use the remote start wire and crank the engine over (keys out of ignition). How fast does the oil filter housing fill?

Good reference...

-jokester
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Engine does seem to speed up on certain cylinders, ipr starts at 30% and makes its was up to 80% and that’s when it starts.
 

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All 80% IPR duty cycle means is that the IPR valve has to be commanded to the most closed point (almost) in order to develop enough pressure to start.
 

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Filter draining isn't an issue. When you push the drain valve down (close it) does that prevent draining out? It should.

The oil filter housing should fill in 5-6 seconds with the drain valve closed and 10-12 with it left open. If it does, then that just means that the LPOP and the LPOP regulator are doing their job.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
All 80% IPR duty cycle means is that the IPR valve has to be commanded to the most closed point (almost) in order to develop enough pressure to start.
Yea which leads me to think it’s a high pressure oil leak and or weak hpop but the truck holds 160psi on an air test for 30 mins my shop compressor doesn’t have any more to give so I was thinking to go up to 400 psi with nitrogen to see if I hear anything then if nothing try 600 psi then if nothing then 800 psi.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Filter draining isn't an issue. When you push the drain valve down (close it) does that prevent draining out? It should.

The oil filter housing should fill in 5-6 seconds with the drain valve closed and 10-12 with it left open. If it does, then that just means that the LPOP and the LPOP regulator are doing their job.
I’ll check that tomorrow also, thanks.
 

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Yea which leads me to think it’s a high pressure oil leak and or weak hpop but the truck holds 160psi on an air test for 30 mins my shop compressor doesn’t have any more to give so I was thinking to go up to 400 psi with nitrogen to see if I hear anything then if nothing try 600 psi then if nothing then 800 psi.
You almost certainly will create issues pressure testing with gas that weren't there after a certain pressure point. That point has not been determined that I know of, but IMO it is around 300 psi. These engines are enough of a challenge without introducing issues that didn't have to be.
 

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I have air tested HPOP at 2300psi with no issues.
 
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