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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Hey everybody, first time poster. 14k miles ago I installed Warren 190/30 injectors in stock 2005 ford heads. Everything was great until my studded gaskets let go. I took the opportunity to order KDD ICON heads and have them installed. They reused the 2005(first gen) injector hold downs. The injector seals came from my ford gasket kit. Now, I haven't made it 300 miles without an injector seal burning up. First injector(cyl5) seal burnt up on the test drive after head job, .2 miles. Mechanic was driving it. 200 miles later I was driving and cyl4 seal went. I took the opportunity then to check torque on all the driver side injectors. Now, another 200 ish miles, the girlfriend borrowed the truck the other night and I'm certain it has knocked another seal out but am out of town so cant check it. What is going on here? Do I have the wrong generation hold downs? Are the injector cups not driven completely in by KDD? Are the bolts just backing out? I'm at a loss for why this is happening and how to correct it. Any recommendations(other than "use a torque wrench")? Oh, yeah. There is no oil to blow out of the bolt holes when using new, virgin heads.
 

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If i were you, I'd take out all the injectros and reseal them. Then see where that puts you. and yes, obviously the torque wrench. Very important for the hold downs
 

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As already said, call them and speak with Jared. Something isn't quite right here.
 
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Hey everybody, first time poster. 14k miles ago I installed Warren 190/30 injectors in stock 2005 ford heads. Everything was great until my studded gaskets let go. I took the opportunity to order KDD ICON heads and have them installed. They reused the 2005(first gen) injector hold downs. The injector seals came from my ford gasket kit. Now, I haven't made it 300 miles without an injector seal burning up. First injector(cyl5) seal burnt up on the test drive after head job, .2 miles. Mechanic was driving it. 200 miles later I was driving and cyl4 seal went. I took the opportunity then to check torque on all the driver side injectors. Now, another 200 ish miles, the girlfriend borrowed the truck the other night and I'm certain it has knocked another seal out but am out of town so cant check it. What is going on here? Do I have the wrong generation hold downs? Are the injector cups not driven completely in by KDD? Are the bolts just backing out? I'm at a loss for why this is happening and how to correct it. Any recommendations(other than "use a torque wrench")? Oh, yeah. There is no oil to blow out of the bolt holes when using new, virgin heads.
Are you 100% sure there is no oil to blow out of the holes? Just asking in the event they were coated in oil before they were wrapped in plastic/packaged.

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I just realized we are talking about their aluminum heads here... no experience with those.
 

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Which seal, the copper crush ring or one of the o rings? Depth or something must be awry.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
I was told the first failure the copper was still there and the lower ring failed. It failed after idling in the shop and making it half a block from the shop. Second failure, the one I fixed, the copper was melted out and the lower ring failed. Third failure I havent got to look at it yet. Also, got someone to answer the phone at KDD and left my number for a call back today. I'm assuming the cups are a **** hair to shallow and heat cycles and what not allow them to pop that final .5mm down and unload the copper washer. I've never installed cups, just guessing at how they fit.
 

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I was told the first failure the copper was still there and the lower ring failed. It failed after idling in the shop and making it half a block from the shop. Second failure, the one I fixed, the copper was melted out and the lower ring failed. Third failure I havent got to look at it yet. Also, got someone to answer the phone at KDD and left my number for a call back today. I'm assuming the cups are a **** hair to shallow and heat cycles and what not allow them to pop that final .5mm down and unload the copper washer. I've never installed cups, just guessing at how they fit.
It's 1938 here in NC. I doubt you get a call back today. I don't have much advice for you but your theory makes sense to me if you're 100% on the torque specs and that the holes were 100% clear.

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A copper washer failure will kill the o rings from the bottom up. My hypothesis is that there’s not enough crush on the copper ring to prevent blow out.
 

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Try thicker 7.3 washers?
 

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Did you measure the crush of the 6.0 copper washers?
 

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Or the thermal expansion of the aluminum is unloading the pressure on the injectors. There's a lot of distance (aluminum) between the bottom of the injector cup and the injector hold-down clamp. Aluminum head design at the OE level is never a direct swap for iron, and there had been some head fastener failures when it was done. Think GM decades ago. I've said before (FTE) I would never use aftermarket aluminum heads on this engine.

I hope it's not that and something simple.

Pick any aluminum alloy.

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Jack, which heads and gaskets would you use? I want to order heads soon, but I'm not sure which ones to order yet. Supposedly the ICON heads from KDD are designed differently and put more pressure on the block.
How are the o-ringed heads machined/lapped during a headgasket job? Are the O-rings available as a spare part?
 

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Jack, which heads and gaskets would you use? I want to order heads soon, but I'm not sure which ones to order yet. Supposedly the ICON heads from KDD are designed differently and put more pressure on the block.
How are the o-ringed heads machined/lapped during a headgasket job? Are the O-rings available as a spare part?
I belive the KDD normal o ringed heads are still cast and not aluminum
 

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I belive the KDD normal o ringed heads are still cast and not aluminum
Thanks, yes I know, the question is which heads are more durable.
According to my information, ICON heads are available faster. Whether it's just marketing strategy, I don't know.
But the question remains how o-ringed heads can be refurbished.
 

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o rings are just a straight wire cut to fit in the circular groove the wire is readily available in many sizes ( just match what you remove

if heads needed to be resurfaced, they would need to have the o ring groove redone ,, I think I would stick with KDD cast iron heads for now

the ICONS are pretty new, to market ( replacing their last AL heads ) not to mention some of the concerns TMT brought up

opinion subject to change if KC turbo or KDD chimes in
 
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