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2006 F350 4x4 DRW (selfbuild camper)
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Good day Gentlemen,

I have here a 2006 6.0 engine that I am currently working on. Mileage original 66K. The engine was driven with defective EGR cooler over 500mls with pure water, then a few days off and driven again and again briefly until it no longer started (engine no longer turned over because rings were rusted inside).

I ordered a pallet of material which finally arrived in Germany after 3 months.

Since the cylinder bores were surprisingly dimensionally correct, I decided to use the first oversize (+0.010in piston).

The block is now on the machine, block deck to main bearing journal is parallel. I took 0.11mm/0.043in off the first block deck until it was clean.

I ran the dial indicator down along the holes (also 90° off) and noticed that the block is drilled at an angle from the factory.

Has anyone experienced this?

The block was obviously drilled with a double spindle boring mill (sry, don´t know the exact word), as there are always 2 bores that match each other per cylinder bank.

Does anyone know how the blocks were machined in 2006? My guess is that the block decking was done on one machine and the cylinder drilling was done on another machine. Is this possible? This is the only way I can explain the angular deviation of the cylinder bores to the block deck.
















If I order +0.030in oversize pistons I would have to get the bores drilled professionally at right 90° angles to block deck / crank journal.

I measured the piston protrusion before machining and wondered why I was getting different readings on each piston side (measured at the 9.00 and 3.00 o-clock position on each piston).

On cylinder 4, I measured a value of 0.75mm/0.0295in piston protrusion.

I have now taken off 0.11mm/0.0043in from the block deck. This means that theoretically I now have a piston protrusion of 0.86mm/0.0338 at this point.

Would you order in my situation the +0.030in pistons in shortened version order or assemble with original piston height?









have these heads here:





meassured valve recession of these new heads:






Thank you
 

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06 6.0 drw 635 rwhp (retired) 08 KR build in progress
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My 6.4 block had two holes that the pistons didn’t come up square in. Had to machine the tops down a touch. The depth on your valve recession is kinda all over the place too I notice. Not super consistent, this in turn can affect installed spring height and lifter preload once you get them evened out. I wonder if the decks weren’t square to begin with? Things certainly perpendicular so to speak.
 

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Two spindles are very possible. Doing all the work on one machine depends on the equipment. Today, yes. Fifteen to twenty years ago at International, who knows.

Since you are German, this might interest you if you have not seen it before - A BMW factory build. LONG video!

But it shows many processes, cracking rods, installing crank tone rings, etc. At 28:10 it briefly shows the multiple spindles, head bolt tightening where all bolts are tensioned at the same time. That process has been in place for decades and probably some used with the 6.0L as I saw it at a Ford assembly line in the late '90s.


A few years old from Detroit Diesel, and probably more in line with what International had. Showing the equipment, not the operation. Bores and deck at different stations within the same equipment.


Somewhat showing the work.

 
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Not where I would be buying heads, but that's me. The factory has had a few recession variations, but not to the extent of those.
 
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06 6.0 drw 635 rwhp (retired) 08 KR build in progress
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I have a customer who was maintenance at the indy Navistar plant, I’ll have to ask him next time he’s out, I believe he retired in the 6.0 era though. If anyone ever needs any 7.3 idi parts he’s got hundreds of injectors, glow plug modules glow plugs pumps etc all new from back then.
 

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06 6.0 drw 635 rwhp (retired) 08 KR build in progress
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He says he believes there were 4 boring bars that went all at once, decking was a separate station. He retires late 02 as the 6.0 was coming online, he says looking at the new line as it was being put in everything looked cheap, lowest bidder so to speak. He was a machine repair man. Fun fact, ford performance poured their Motorsport blocks and heads at the Indy casting plant due their metal allegedly being better. He says they would come in during shutdown.
 

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He says he never saw it as a issue with the 7.3 but could easily see it happening during 6.0 production. He claims 4 boring heads per bank all at once, no indexing block per bank, so one or two spindle bearings worn could cause a few cylinders to be off. On the 7.3 he said they’d pull while off of machine and replace bearings and do any adjustments needed to them. He never worked the 6.0 line but saw the machinery and is familiar with the processes. He claims most of the machinery on the 7.3 line was older but well proven, that the new line looked disastrous due to his experience with some of the cheaper machinery that had been phased in. The whole 6.0 line was new cheap machinery
 

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Good day Gentlemen,

I have here a 2006 6.0 engine that I am currently working on. Mileage original 66K. The engine was driven with defective EGR cooler over 500mls with pure water, then a few days off and driven again and again briefly until it no longer started (engine no longer turned over because rings were rusted inside).

I ordered a pallet of material which finally arrived in Germany after 3 months.

Since the cylinder bores were surprisingly dimensionally correct, I decided to use the first oversize (+0.010in piston).

The block is now on the machine, block deck to main bearing journal is parallel. I took 0.11mm/0.043in off the first block deck until it was clean.

I ran the dial indicator down along the holes (also 90° off) and noticed that the block is drilled at an angle from the factory.

Has anyone experienced this?

The block was obviously drilled with a double spindle boring mill (sry, don´t know the exact word), as there are always 2 bores that match each other per cylinder bank.

Does anyone know how the blocks were machined in 2006? My guess is that the block decking was done on one machine and the cylinder drilling was done on another machine. Is this possible? This is the only way I can explain the angular deviation of the cylinder bores to the block deck.



If I order +0.030in oversize pistons I would have to get the bores drilled professionally at right 90° angles to block deck / crank journal.

I measured the piston protrusion before machining and wondered why I was getting different readings on each piston side (measured at the 9.00 and 3.00 o-clock position on each piston).

On cylinder 4, I measured a value of 0.75mm/0.0295in piston protrusion.

I have now taken off 0.11mm/0.0043in from the block deck. This means that theoretically I now have a piston protrusion of 0.86mm/0.0338 at this point.

Would you order in my situation the +0.030in pistons in shortened version order or assemble with original piston height?
Do you not have easy access to a donor block from a scrap truck for cheap? I would go that route personally in your situation who knows what such a severe angle did to the rest of the rotating assembly. do your rod big ends have any taper? creepy. I understand you are invested maybe its best to just start from a good core instead of trying to fix a navistar crack baby. no doubt in theory you should machine pistons if you took .004 off the deck you should take .004 off the pistons and pushrods but apparently DDPM only starts milling pistons compression height after .006 deck reduction according to their store page. DDPM is solid reference always

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Here in Germany, such vehicles are very rare. On scrap yards you will not find such vehicles, they are disassembled due to the rarity to the last screw and reused parts.
A search for a good 6.0 block is like a search for a unicorn here.
The block is now machined, I hope FICMrepair ship the pistons soon, then the rebuild can start.
The connecting rods I will probably leave alone.
 

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Hartwig's topic has been on several forums, with different people responding. I just wrote a response on PSA, but I thought it might be interesting to post it here as well in the topic thread, as many may not have seen the equipment or procedures discussed in my post.

Hartwig's post:
I have also worked on many engines, I had not seen anything like this before either.
This engine I had opened because of a catastrophic EGR cooler damage.
The only consolation for the truck owner is that there would have been problems with the engine at some point anyway due to the one-sided load and thus the chips/abrasion of the bearing shells (Currently, however, nothing of this was yet to be found in the oil/engine).
The question for me is what to do with an engine if I were to experience something like this again (the different values of piston protrusions and rod bearing shells worn on one side).
I don't think the big rebuilders pay attention to anything like this.

6.0 blocks are so plentiful in the US, Hartwig; I'd just get another.

No, I'm afraid I have to disagree. It depends on the competency of the shop and the equipment they want to invest in. The CNC equipment for the last decade can easily correct for something like this. RMC is one of the CNC manufacturers that sell better equipment. Rottler, also. But again, it depends if the shop wants to use the engine block Datum and the crank bore to reference the cylinders and decks. And if they have the blueprint specs for the engine. To me, that's the most important thing. But, again, I'm just a home rebuilder of one 6.0 engine, so I'm coming from the experience of long ago and other engines.

Through my YT travels, I could point you to some equipment videos from Rottler. Unfortunately, I've not looked at enough sites to show a direct video with their equipment that shows the setup. This video is typical of their CNC videos from what I've seen, indicating off the existing oil pan deck, bore, and head deck, then using a boring bar and flycutter. This method would straighten the decks and bores to the crank centerline since they are mounting off a crank bar. It's good but not ideal as it would not locate the ideal cylinder bores.


This is one of my favorite small machining shops for videos. I've gone through many of his videos, and from my experience of being in a shop about 50 years ago and shops I have used, he does it right. I won't post all the videos you could watch. But he is referencing off the Datum in the block (when available), crank bore, and everything else. And he has the blueprint information from the CNC supplier.





 

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I'm going to throw another video from this channel here.

If you've watched my videos on my two-car garage situation of addressing my heads, block deck surfaces, and videos of the head gaskets, I talk about surface finishes. In my video comments, I often get feedback about shops that don't have a surface profilometer or scoff about the need. This always blows me away because it's the only way of measuring the surface finish. It's freaking measurement, like using a micrometer, caliper, or rule. Head gasket companies do have ranges for their products. Ford doesn't because they don't want anyone to machine our heads. Period.

Me having a profilometer is an exception to the rule for a DIY guy. But I do, at least right now.

This shop uses one, the same one I have, and videos show measurements of the surfaces, including the cylinder bores. This is a video of his head surface machining.

 
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