Ford Powerstroke Diesel Forum banner

1 - 19 of 19 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
6 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Let me tell you the story of a troublesome truck

I have a 2000 7.3L SuperDuty that has a been a great truck for the last five years. But on my way to work last week I went over a bump in the road (transition between the freeway overpass and solid ground, nothing crazy) and lost power steering and the motor. It started acting like I lost the gas petal and slowly lost RPMs as I coasted to a stop. Upon trying to restart the truck I discovered I had no power. I now know that particular problem was due to a corroded battery clam, which has been replaced.

I was not able to get the truck repaired on the side of the road and I was close enough to work for someone to come get me so I left her on the side of the road and had her towed home. Now that we are home and have done some testing we have discovered the following:

  • She cranks really really well but never even tries to start
  • Oil level is right where it is supposed to be
  • Fuel pump appears to be working. I drained the bowl with the yellow tab then cycled the ignition and drained another full bowl.
  • CPS sensor appears to be working as the tach does register as you crank.
  • Oil pressure looks good while cranking
  • Only code is P0683 which is listed "Glow Plug Module Control to ECM Communication Circuit Fault" I don't think this can contributing as it has been around for awhile and the OAT tempature is 85*.This will get fixed just need to get her running first.
If this was a gas engine I would fog some ether to see if I could make her run to determine if it was electric brain problem or a fuel problem but being a diesel that seems like a bad idea....
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
8,327 Posts
Ever see any White "Smoke" (vapor) from the tailpipe while cranking?

You could try spraying with something like BrakeClean or WD40 (aerosol) or even some propane (all safer than either) but sounds like that bump disconnected something...

What is it you're using to Scan with? (you know most scanners won't work properly for us, you Can't just use any Ole Generic scanner for our system which is Not Specifically OBD-II but rather a variant called SAE J1850)

I'd first be thinking Electrical, with that "bump" and all ;)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
839 Posts
Ever see any White "Smoke" (vapor) from the tailpipe while cranking?

You could try spraying with something like BrakeClean or WD40 (aerosol) or even some propane (all safer than either) but sounds like that bump disconnected something...

What is it you're using to Scan with? (you know most scanners won't work properly for us, you Can't just use any Ole Generic scanner for our system which is Not Specifically OBD-II but rather a variant called SAE J1850)

I'd first be thinking Electrical, with that "bump" and all ;)
NoRalPh.....DO YOU THINK THAT HE HAS A GROUND STRAP LOOSE OR BROKEN ON THE FRAME?....COULD THAT CAUSE HIS ISSUE?....
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
8,327 Posts
Something like that maybe, something corroded, unplugged, or just broke....

I don't know much about what a Generic OBD-II scanner actually can do. I think it's also possible he might have an IDM problem (the IDM, and it's communication with the PCM being pretty specific to out trucks) and the wrong kind of scanner could miss it completely.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,766 Posts
Are you getting the WTS light when turning the key on? That would indicate whether the PCM is being energized.

Is your fuel bowl heater still intact? If that shorts out it takes out the same fuse that powers the PCM.

You could also try disconnecting the ICP sensor to make it run in default mode, oil in the sensor contacts indicates it failed.

You could also look at the IPR, check that the solenoid is tight against the regulator with the large nut holding it on.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,572 Posts
So this is definitely something to try considering what you tested so far. Unplug the fuel bowl heater wire on the back of the fuel bowl and replace the related fuse and try again. I’ve seen a bump related to that and I’ve seen a bump related to that big red block with wires on the drivers side valve cover too.

have you tried getting a second pair of hands and carefully wiggle wire connectors one at a time and then trying to start? I would have a battery tender connected to keep from having to replace batteries too
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
8,327 Posts
I like the idea of wigglin' wires & plugs, and YEA! have a look to see if a sensor (like the ICP/IPR got unplugged to...

But Guys... ;)

If the PCM wasn't running (no WTS / blown fuse) NONE of these things could happen.


  • Fuel pump appears to be working. I drained the bowl with the yellow tab then cycled the ignition and drained another full bowl.
  • CPS sensor appears to be working as the tach does register as you crank.
  • Oil pressure looks good while cranking
  • Only code is P0683 which is listed "Glow Plug Module Control to ECM Communication Circuit Fault" I don't think this can contributing as it has been around for awhile and the OAT tempature is 85*.This will get fixed just need to get her running first.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6 Posts
Discussion Starter #8 (Edited)
Ever see any White "Smoke" (vapor) from the tailpipe while cranking?

You could try spraying with something like BrakeClean or WD40 (aerosol) or even some propane (all safer than either) but sounds like that bump disconnected something...

What is it you're using to Scan with? (you know most scanners won't work properly for us, you Can't just use any Ole Generic scanner for our system which is Not Specifically OBD-II but rather a variant called SAE J1850)

I'd first be thinking Electrical, with that "bump" and all ;)
Never seen and white smoking during all the cranking.

I do have some of that "highly flammable" brake clean. I could see if I can coax her to life with that.

Its a generic scanner. I cross so many vehicle makes and manufacturers I have never bothered to get a specialized scanner.

UPDATE: She runs on Super Cleaner BrakeKleen! I imagine that means we are running into a fuel issue. Since we have fuel in the fuel bowl, is there some kind of fuel shut off after the bowl?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6 Posts
Discussion Starter #9
Are you getting the WTS light when turning the key on? That would indicate whether the PCM is being energized.

Is your fuel bowl heater still intact? If that shorts out it takes out the same fuse that powers the PCM.

You could also try disconnecting the ICP sensor to make it run in default mode, oil in the sensor contacts indicates it failed.

You could also look at the IPR, check that the solenoid is tight against the regulator with the large nut holding it on.
I have the wait to start light. I checked under the dash and under the hook and cant find any blown fuses.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
8,327 Posts
Unfortunately, running on "spray" bypasses So Many things it doesn't tell you much other than that you have compression ;)

So, my next stock answer is;
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If you're gonna keep & maintain the truck yourself I strongly suggest you get access to the special scanner software you need to do it.

To retrieve most of the codes you'll need to help and even do some testing look at the FORscan Lite or TorqueApp (you add an Android device and Blue Tooth Adapter for @ $30) OR the Windoze version with a USB adapter. I like this one for BT Android -> Amazon.com: Bafx Products - Wireless Bluetooth OBD2 / OBDII Diagnostic Car Scanner & Reader Tool for Android Devices - Read/Clear Your Check Engine Light & Much More: Automotive

Just a few years ago you needed to buy a professional scan tool because our trucks need to have a scanner with a Library containing both the Ford Proprietary AND the Diesel Specific codes in it. Add to that, our trucks are Not, specifically, OBD-II so the Generic scanners the Auto Parts Stores have are of little use to us. But today there are some very good App based tools, that are close to what the pro tools do, for fraction of the cost.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

At this point you'd really like to know what the HiPres Oil system sensors are reading and if you have a code that's not in the Generic scanners library.

Have you looked under the hood, specifically at the ICP & IPR sensors?

Another "stock" answer of mine; ;)

My usual No Start -

WTS Light? - do you get it when you first roll-on the key? (shows the computer is running)

Do you see cranking rpm on the Tach? Can you verify cranking rpm signal with a scanner of some sort? Do you have a spare CPS to try?

Is there fuel in the fuel bowl now? Does it refill after cranking? (open the drain lever to check) Look above the pass ft tire, you'll see a 3/8" metal tube, against the motor that ends there, it's the drain for the bowl (yellow lever you slide to the side). Get a cup, open the lever, drain the fuel bowl, look at the fuel, close the lever. Then, turn the key to the ON position (should hear the pump) for 15 secs. Drain the fuel bowl again, whaddya got?

Can you hear/feel the pump running (below the dr seat, against the framerail)

Could the fuel gauge be giving a bad reading? (Below 1/4 tank?)

Is it cranking fast enough? - it won't even TRY to start if cranking too slowly.

Is your truck "chipped"? If so, remove it as a Test.

You can unplug the ICP sensor, as a Test, so the PCM sets a default value for the IPR to run on (expect this to set a new "Low ICP" code, don't let that misdirect you after a scan).

Did you check the plug and sheet metal nut going to the IPR? That nut can vibrate off and allow the solenoid going over the valve to slide around. The wires going to the IPR can get brittle, crack, and short together. Make sure the plug & wires look in good shape.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,766 Posts
Never seen and white smoking during all the cranking.

I do have some of that "highly flammable" brake clean. I could see if I can coax her to life with that.

Its a generic scanner. I cross so many vehicle makes and manufacturers I have never bothered to get a specialized scanner.

UPDATE: She runs on Super Cleaner BrakeKleen! I imagine that means we are running into a fuel issue. Since we have fuel in the fuel bowl, is there some kind of fuel shut off after the bowl?
If you've already scanned the truck and have gotten no other codes, I would remove at least one of the valve covers and look for oil coming from the injector spouts while cranking. Oil coming from the injectors would indicate they are attempting to fire.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1 Posts
I had the same issue with my 99 7.3
It was 3 weeks old. One of the bolts that held a injector in place broke. This caused the oil pressure to the injectors to drop to a point they could not fire.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6 Posts
Discussion Starter #14
Unfortunately, running on "spray" bypasses So Many things it doesn't tell you much other than that you have compression ;)

So, my next stock answer is;
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If you're gonna keep & maintain the truck yourself I strongly suggest you get access to the special scanner software you need to do it.

To retrieve most of the codes you'll need to help and even do some testing look at the FORscan Lite or TorqueApp (you add an Android device and Blue Tooth Adapter for @ $30) OR the Windoze version with a USB adapter. I like this one for BT Android -> Amazon.com: Bafx Products - Wireless Bluetooth OBD2 / OBDII Diagnostic Car Scanner & Reader Tool for Android Devices - Read/Clear Your Check Engine Light & Much More: Automotive

Just a few years ago you needed to buy a professional scan tool because our trucks need to have a scanner with a Library containing both the Ford Proprietary AND the Diesel Specific codes in it. Add to that, our trucks are Not, specifically, OBD-II so the Generic scanners the Auto Parts Stores have are of little use to us. But today there are some very good App based tools, that are close to what the pro tools do, for fraction of the cost.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

At this point you'd really like to know what the HiPres Oil system sensors are reading and if you have a code that's not in the Generic scanners library.

Have you looked under the hood, specifically at the ICP & IPR sensors?

Another "stock" answer of mine; ;)

My usual No Start -

WTS Light? - do you get it when you first roll-on the key? (shows the computer is running)
Yes I have the light

Do you see cranking rpm on the Tach? Can you verify cranking rpm signal with a scanner of some sort? Do you have a spare CPS to try?
Yes the tach registers the engine cranking. I may have a spare CPS in a drawer but by it registering on the tach doesn't that mean the CPS is working?

Is there fuel in the fuel bowl now? Does it refill after cranking? (open the drain lever to check) Look above the pass ft tire, you'll see a 3/8" metal tube, against the motor that ends there, it's the drain for the bowl (yellow lever you slide to the side). Get a cup, open the lever, drain the fuel bowl, look at the fuel, close the lever. Then, turn the key to the ON position (should hear the pump) for 15 secs. Drain the fuel bowl again, whaddya got?
I can drain it and cycle the key and it refills in a couple seconds

Can you hear/feel the pump running (below the dr seat, against the framerail)
I don't hear it but I can feel it.

Could the fuel gauge be giving a bad reading? (Below 1/4 tank?)
Plenty of fuel

Is it cranking fast enough? - it won't even TRY to start if cranking too slowly.
She cranks hard and is on battery tenders but never actually tries to start.

Is your truck "chipped"? If so, remove it as a Test.
Chip was removed 2 years ago.

You can unplug the ICP sensor, as a Test, so the PCM sets a default value for the IPR to run on (expect this to set a new "Low ICP" code, don't let that misdirect you after a scan).
Unplugged ICP and solid cranks but still no fire.

Did you check the plug and sheet metal nut going to the IPR? That nut can vibrate off and allow the solenoid going over the valve to slide around. The wires going to the IPR can get brittle, crack, and short together. Make sure the plug & wires look in good shape.
IPR looks good. Wires are flexible and good.
Answers are in bold. Bought the recommended scanner but I am having some trouble getting it to connect to the "preferred app". It can't find the scanner. Borrowed a buddy's high dollar Snap On and the only code that was it pulled was P0683 "Glow Plug Control Module 1 to PCM Communication Circuit"
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
8,327 Posts
Ok so First, that Snap-On scanner should have showed the unplugged ICP as a code. Was this used before/after you tried unplugging it?

Next, exactly which App/Adapter did you get, what device are you using it on, and did you read the thread I linked to and follow the instructions for configuring it to your truck?

We really need to start by being able to monitor sensors and for that you have to get your new App to communicate (ya gotta work on that ;)). The GPM code it's keeping you from starting, but you'll know you're getting a proper scan when you get an "ICP out-of-range" code from unplugging it.

Until you can get past this problem with scanning/monitoring, you're just shootin' in the dark....
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6 Posts
Discussion Starter #16
Updating

Got the scanner to work the torque app seems to be much better than any of the iPhone options. Seems sometimes it doesn't want to connect to the ECU.

Only codes are the ICP code (when unplugged), a waste gate code (makes sense since is have part of the exhaust pulled apart to take the cover off) and the same gpm code that has been there for a year.

Right now we are not getting any white smoke when cranking,
Tac is moving when cranking
oil pressure on the trucks gauge
little to no oil flow from the injectors
have a WTS light

Whats the next step gentlemen?

Difficultly of the scanner sometimes connecting and other times not wanting to connect worries me. Could it be a bad PCM?
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
8,327 Posts
First, make sure the TorqueApp is properly configured (doesn't come that way out-of-the-box)

Next, Clear Codes and create a screen with these 4 gauges.

ICP pressure (make sure you set it to psi)
IPR %
RPM
System Voltage (All measured While Cranking)

What do you get???
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6 Posts
Discussion Starter #18
First, make sure the TorqueApp is properly configured (doesn't come that way out-of-the-box)

Next, Clear Codes and create a screen with these 4 gauges.

ICP pressure (make sure you set it to psi)
IPR %
RPM
System Voltage (All measured While Cranking)

What do you get???
HPOP never registered any pressure
64.7%
90-120 rpms
10.2 volts

while the voltage was a little low, cranks sounded healthy. Placed battery charger on her to refresh the batteries
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
8,327 Posts
So, your Voltage isn't actually that low (remember those Glow Plugs are taking a lot of current) and the RPM is fine, but you're IPR is Way too high because the PCM isn't getting any HPOP reading and is trying its best to raise it. With the ICP unplugged the PCM should report @ 2,000psi, not sure why you have nothing.

At this point I would want to confirm HPOP Output. Best way to do that would be to get a Gauge on it (you'll need a HiPres gauge and hose along with an adapter)
 
1 - 19 of 19 Posts
Top