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Where is the best place to get the biggest bang for my buck. War wagon is on the lift, finally getting it studded and deleted. Ordered the Dieselsite HD HPOP and figured while I was in there I would drop 8 new/reman sticks in there. Can anybody point me to a good reputable dealer, maybe someone who supports the ORG?

Thanks
 

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Sounds like you have a great build going. I can help you out with whatever you need and get you set up with some injectors.

What are your plans for the truck?
Ever going with a larger turbo?
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Sounds like you have a great build going. I can help you out with whatever you need and get you set up with some injectors.

What are your plans for the truck?
Ever going with a larger turbo?

Peixinho,

I would like to go with a little larger turbo it just don't have the money for it right now. Yes I would like to have my stock injectors rebuilt. I've called a few of the companies that advertise here on the org but their prices are no better than what you can get every where else. It also seems no one gives military discounts any more.

I was wanting to go with 155/30's for improved fuel mileage. Not looking to build a dragster or mud truck. I'm just building a reliable daily driver that can tow a trailer when I need it to.
 

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I will send you a PM with some pricing. I can get you a military discount.

I only recommend 155/30s to those who never want to go bigger than a stage 1.5 turbo. The reason being is that you can order 175/30s and pull a little fuel to make them run just like 155/30. But then later on if you go with a bigger turbo like a stage 2 turbo you will wish you had gone with the 175/30.

Basically... 175/30 will runs just like 155/30 with a few tune adjustments... BUT>> to upgraded from 155/30 to 175/30 will require a whole new set of injectors. Hope that makes sense,
 

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I will send you a PM with some pricing. I can get you a military discount.

I only recommend 155/30s to those who never want to go bigger than a stage 1.5 turbo. The reason being is that you can order 175/30s and pull a little fuel to make them run just like 155/30. But then later on if you go with a bigger turbo like a stage 2 turbo you will wish you had gone with the 175/30.

Basically... 175/30 will runs just like 155/30 with a few tune adjustments... BUT>> to upgraded from 155/30 to 175/30 will require a whole new set of injectors. Hope that makes sense,
But can you tow heavy with 175/30s? When I say heavy, I mean 13-20k 5th wheel RV trailers like the keystone 425st..I think is 15,500lb dry. I was thinking 155/30s myself but seems like 175/30s make more since
 

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Baddest, Towing is exactly why I chose 155/30's over 175's. I'll also most likely go with Charlie's Stage II "roll your own" kit.

I'm running a larger cam, though.
 

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Just FYI... with a conservative tow tune... 155/30 and 175/30 and 190/30 are exactly the same thing. Someone can keep 155/30s in check just as easy as 190/30s as long as you run a tow tune... heck 285/30s will run exactly the same as 155/30s on a tow tune. 155, 175, 190 is just how much fuel the body can hold... it does not mean that is how much fuel you will dump. The nozzle size mixed with tuning will decide how much fuel is dumped.


I always find it weird when people say that 155/30 is an awesome tow injector... but then think that 190/30 are too big. They are the exact same thing on a conservative tow tune but will be completely different animals on a race tune


Check out this thread...

http://www.powerstroke.org/forum/6-0l-performance-parts-discussion/744178-robertc68s-190-30s-tow-build-thread.html
 

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For those who are curious... hopefully this will help clear things up for those who wonder how in the world a 190/30 can act just like a 155/30 on a tow tune. Lets break it down really simple into different terms that might be easier to understand.

Capacity - stock, 155, 175, 190, 205 etc... this is simply how much fuel the injectors can hold. It simply puts a limit on what the injector can hold.

Nozzle - stock, 30, 75, 100, 125, etc... this is simply how big of a hole you dump the fuel through. It determines how fast you can dump all that fuel.

Pulse Width - This ranges from 0-2.8... this is the milli seconds that the injectors dumps for.



This may sound stupid but it is the same concept. We must ignore a few concepts or this will get way confusing... ignore ICP, HPO, and Excess force from extra water. So lets imagine that you have 2 home depot 5 gallon buckets. Cut 1/4 of the top of the bucket off so that it can only be filled up 3/4 way up (whole bucket = 190 and 3/4 bucket = 155). Drill a 1/4 inch hole in the bottom of the both the buckets (this will be the nozzles size). Place a finger over both holes and fill the buckets to the brim. Make sure both buckets are full... now this is where the pulse width comes in. Pull you finger off both buckets at the same time, wait 10 seconds, and then plug the holes again. Measure how much water came out... you will find that they both dumped the same amount of water. You can continue doing this test increasing the amount of time you pull your finger away until the smaller bucket is completely dumped and there is still water left in the bigger bucket. At any time under under this amount they will dump the exact same amount of fuel... at any time over that then the larger bucket will have the advantage. That is like the difference between a race tune and a tow tune, it is simply the amount of time you pull your finger away from the bottom of the bucket.


This is just like injectors with the same nozzles. If you take a 155/30 and a 190/30 then there is a certain pulse width at which both injectors will dump the exact same amount of fuel. This is normally the case in a tow tune because the tow tune usually runs a lower pulse width that will not completely dump even a 155cc injector. Now if you run a race tune then the 190/30 will be able to dump more fuel because it runs a much longer pulse width.
 

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Thank you for that great explanation peixinho. :)
 

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Outstanding explanation. Thank you. Now I understand injectors much more than before.:)
 

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As said above, it is all good info. If he only wants a small upgrade, 155/stock is a very good choice. As Pex said, 30% over nozzles are a very reasonable option for towing with proper tuning and a reasonable turbo. If you choose 30% nozzles, you may as well get the injector at 175 as it will give you a ton of performance with the same turbo on different tuning.
 

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Pexino is way smarter then me on this, I'm just a caveman. i do believe the math, the theory, though I've posted plenty on my trips pulling a 22k trailer (30ish gross) on 155s. I run a heavy tow tune that already limits 155s in areas and I've been egt limited in places, all at altitudes above 4k, but still fact. I had to pull across whole state of NM at 55 mph until I hit west side and dropped out of altitude because I was egt limited. Thank god I didn't have 175s that day, or ever. There's a difference between towing your plastic kayak and my triple axle frame re-inforced trailer with a car and all associated equipment in it. Towing heavy I'd never go 175,it's just advice.

I also never change my tune, even unloaded! So I don't max my capability. No longer (or ever) do I go to the 7-11 and dream of racing civics, or go to sled pulls and just try to break s#%+. If your that guy then you might use the bigger injectors at times. For me, my heavy toe tunes already limit my 155s, what would be the point of trying to limit 175s even more? And could it be done as effective? I doubt it. Just a caveman though, I dint theorize about this s#%* all day long I'm just out there towing....
 

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I will send you a PM with some pricing. I can get you a military discount.

I only recommend 155/30s to those who never want to go bigger than a stage 1.5 turbo. The reason being is that you can order 175/30s and pull a little fuel to make them run just like 155/30. But then later on if you go with a bigger turbo like a stage 2 turbo you will wish you had gone with the 175/30.

Basically... 175/30 will runs just like 155/30 with a few tune adjustments... BUT>> to upgraded from 155/30 to 175/30 will require a whole new set of injectors. Hope that makes sense,
Not meaning to derail the OP's thread Charlie, but since it's being discussed here, which injector would you recommend for my setup, with your Stage 2 and some heavy towing?
Guessing 175/30??
 

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Not meaning to derail the OP's thread Charlie, but since it's being discussed here, which injector would you recommend for my setup, with your Stage 2 and some heavy towing?
Guessing 175/30??
Yep. 175/30. They will run just like 155/30 on a tow tune but run like 175/30 on a race tune.
 

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Pexino is way smarter then me on this, I'm just a caveman. i do believe the math, the theory, though I've posted plenty on my trips pulling a 22k trailer (30ish gross) on 155s. I run a heavy tow tune that already limits 155s in areas and I've been egt limited in places, all at altitudes above 4k, but still fact. I had to pull across whole state of NM at 55 mph until I hit west side and dropped out of altitude because I was egt limited. Thank god I didn't have 175s that day, or ever. There's a difference between towing your plastic kayak and my triple axle frame re-inforced trailer with a car and all associated equipment in it. Towing heavy I'd never go 175,it's just advice.

I also never change my tune, even unloaded! So I don't max my capability. No longer (or ever) do I go to the 7-11 and dream of racing civics, or go to sled pulls and just try to break s#%+. If your that guy then you might use the bigger injectors at times. For me, my heavy toe tunes already limit my 155s, what would be the point of trying to limit 175s even more? And could it be done as effective? I doubt it. Just a caveman though, I dint theorize about this s#%* all day long I'm just out there towing....

:tard::rofl::dunno::doh::shrug:

Its not that difficult. And having 175/30s would have made NO DIFFERENCE in your towing on a tow tune, but it will on a race tune.

Think of it like this. 155, 175, and 190 is just the size of your fuel tank. (lets ignore the extra weight of the fuel) The size of the fuel tank will in no way affect how much fuel you use (until you run out). That would be like someone saying>>> Man I am so glad I don't have the 36 gallon fuel tank. My truck idles and starts so well with my 30 gallon fuel tank, I am afraid by adding the 36 gallon tank that my truck will start using too much fuel at idle. Even though we know the size of the fuel tank has no affect :doh:

Its the same thing with injectors. 155, 175, and 190 is just the capacity of the injectors. Thats it. If you are running a tow tune on 190/30s then you will never even desire enough PW to get more than 155cc. 155/30s will not even dump 155cc of fuel on a tow tune. If you don't believe me then load up a full fuel tow tune and try to tow with it... that will show you what 155cc is like.


These are also not theories. They are well proven by injectors builders and all the guys towing heavy with 175/30 and 190/30 injectors. Call up and talk to Jess Warren or Rykan at Holders. This is an easy thing to test with a flow bench. They will tell you the same thing.
 

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Don't get me wrong. I sell lots of 155/30s to people. I just sold a set this week. If you never plan on running a larger turbo or pushing the truck hard on a full fuel race tune then 155/30s are great. But for those looking to do both then there is ZERO downside to 175/30 on a tow tune (except they cost $50 extra). There is only upside when you load up a race tune.
 

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Don't get me wrong. I sell lots of 155/30s to people. I just sold a set this week. If you never plan on running a larger turbo or pushing the truck hard on a full fuel race tune then 155/30s are great. But for those looking to do both then there is ZERO downside to 175/30 on a tow tune (except they cost $50 extra). There is only upside when you load up a race tune.


Thanks Charlie, you always have valuable feedback. As for theory versus reality, I'm not on here as often, but wasn't it just 6 months ago you were selling the theory that 30 over nozzles were of no value on almost every application? I seem to recall that and thinking "dam I paid more $ for 30overs and I shouldn't of". Now I see we are back to selling 30 overs? My point on theory versus reality. Reality must have shown different than theory thus you changed tune? Or do I remember that incorrectly? I guess it's all record on here if one wanted scroll back.....
 

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Thanks Charlie, you always have valuable feedback. As for theory versus reality, I'm not on here as often, but wasn't it just 6 months ago you were selling the theory that 30 over nozzles were of no value on almost every application? I seem to recall that and thinking "dam I paid more $ for 30overs and I shouldn't of". Now I see we are back to selling 30 overs? My point on theory versus reality. Reality must have shown different than theory thus you changed tune? Or do I remember that incorrectly? I guess it's all record on here if one wanted scroll back.....
Touche :engarde:

Ideas and theories do change. I still love 155/stock and 175/stock and think they are a great bang for your buck... but when you do 155/30 you get brand new nozzles which is definitely a plus. The injectors builders also push them much harder than the stock nozzle upgrades.

I am always learning new things... and a lot of people swear they get better fuel mileage with 30% nozzles over the stock nozzles. I never saw any difference in any of my testing... but I didn't see any difference with my 285/75s either.

According to Jesse and a few others... the 30% nozzles run a little more efficient down low because they are able to dump more fuel quicker which cause a cooler burn :dunno: Maybe the new clean nozzles make a better spray pattern.


I personally think with larger nozzles you dump more fuel with less pulse width and it just confuses the lie-o-meter to read higher MPG.
 
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