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Discussion Starter #1
Anyone run it year round? I am stuck between switching from it to 5w40 or staying with it for the summer. I read that the 30 weight doesn’t break down but the 40 weight can break down to below a 30. My Truck is not a hard worker. I do want to keep the 10W30 because the truck seemed to like it a lot better than the 15W40. I switched to it in the fall. Any advice?? Thanks.
 

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Plenty of people use 10W30 year round - even towing. No issues.

As far as "not breaking down", that is an Internet myth. 10W30 will shear, just as ANY multi-grade oil will shear down to its base oil when exposed to what our HEUI system does to oil.

The thing is, the greater the spread between the winter viscosity and summer viscosity, the more "Viscosity Index Improvers" need to be added. The more of these additives, the greater the shearing will be.

Another fact is some oils shear faster than others. IMO it varies because of the different base oils that are used in the various oil choices.

I have data on numerous 5W40 oils and they are not close to a 20 wt at 5k miles, they are not all that close to the 20 wt point even at 7.5k miles. Schaeffer 9000 shears the slowest of the 5W40 oils that I have seen and tried. Mobil Delvac 1 5W40 shears slightly faster than the Schaeffer. Mobil 1 TDT is slightly more than the Delvac 1. After that, Rotella T6 and Valvoline PBE shear a fair amount faster than the others mentioned. Fact is that the Schaeffer, Mobil Delvac 1, and Mobil 1 TDT are all in the high 30 wt range after 7.5 k miles. Often times, they are higher in viscosity than where the "fresh" 10W30 oils start out at.

The John Deere +5- 10W30 shears more slowly than the Rotella 10W30. I have data showing the Rotella 10W30 almost to a 20 wt at 12k miles.

The recent discussions have called in question how important is the sheering anyway. If 10W30 shears some (even though it is slowly), then what does it matter of a 5W40 shears to the middle of a 30 wt range after 7.5k miles?

The only question that remains unanswered IMO is how low is too low for the viscosity. Mid range on a 30 wt has quite a bit of unofficial data (quite a few users of that oil going 5k to 7.5k miles) and apparently no issues.

Me personally, I wouldn't want to run an oil that was approaching the 20 wt range. I have no data proving it is a problem, just that it has to be an issue at some point and I don't want to be the one generating that data point!

Hope this helps
 

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I wouldn't use 10w30 at all, 5w40 would be better.
 

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Here is some of the data I have.

The blue dots are Mobil Delvac 1 and Mobil 1 TDT 5W40 results. The orange dots are Rotella T5 10W30.

The two lines represent the 30 wt point and the 20 wt point.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Plenty of people use 10W30 year round - even towing. No issues.

As far as "not breaking down", that is an Internet myth. 10W30 will shear, just as ANY multi-grade oil will shear down to its base oil when exposed to what our HEUI system does to oil.

The thing is, the greater the spread between the winter viscosity and summer viscosity, the more "Viscosity Index Improvers" need to be added. The more of these additives, the greater the shearing will be.

Another fact is some oils shear faster than others. IMO it varies because of the different base oils that are used in the various oil choices.

I have data on numerous 5W40 oils and they are not close to a 20 wt at 5k miles, they are not all that close to the 20 wt point even at 7.5k miles. Schaeffer 9000 shears the slowest of the 5W40 oils that I have seen and tried. Mobil Delvac 1 5W40 shears slightly faster than the Schaeffer. Mobil 1 TDT is slightly more than the Delvac 1. After that, Rotella T6 and Valvoline PBE shear a fair amount faster than the others mentioned. Fact is that the Schaeffer, Mobil Delvac 1, and Mobil 1 TDT are all in the high 30 wt range after 7.5 k miles. Often times, they are higher in viscosity than where the "fresh" 10W30 oils start out at.

The John Deere +5- 10W30 shears more slowly than the Rotella 10W30. I have data showing the Rotella 10W30 almost to a 20 wt at 12k miles.

The recent discussions have called in question how important is the sheering anyway. If 10W30 shears some (even though it is slowly), then what does it matter of a 5W40 shears to the middle of a 30 wt range after 7.5k miles?

The only question that remains unanswered IMO is how low is too low for the viscosity. Mid range on a 30 wt has quite a bit of unofficial data (quite a few users of that oil going 5k to 7.5k miles) and apparently no issues.

Me personally, I wouldn't want to run an oil that was approaching the 20 wt range. I have no data proving it is a problem, just that it has to be an issue at some point and I don't want to be the one generating that data point!

Hope this helps

Thank you so much for the detailed response and the chart! I appreciate the help! 5W40 seems like the way to go. It makes me feel more comfortable that it will start at 40 weight and end somewhere in the vicinity of 30. I change oil at 5k. Maybe I’ll start having it analyzed.
 

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10w30 vs 5w40 ,15w40

Upon reading up on the most current info I could find concerning engine oils for diesels I have found they are using 10w30 oils in place of 15w40 & 5w40. Here is a example of one supplier. They sell a synthetic blend ( fleet ultra) or full synthetic ( fleet supreme). Check it out. I am planning on trying it out soon.



TRIAX FLEET ULTRA ESP 10W 30 CK 4

TRIAX Fleet Ecellion ESP 10W 30
 

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Just because another engine uses a certain oil, it does not necessarily mean it is best for your engine. That is why Ford (in a very controversial position statement) stated that they only recommend diesel oils that meet their spec.

That said, there are several threads (on several Forums) about Triax oils ... they can probably be found w/ a google search. I can't recall anything negative from them.
 

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According to Triax it does see below.


triax oil, diesel oil, triax synthetic oil
TRIAX FLEET SUPREME ESP Synthetics are a new generation of friction modified / optimized extreme durability lubricants designed for a very wide range of heavy duty diesel applications and meeting a wide range of specifications. These products exceed OEM requirements for both US heavy duty trucks and European ultra high performance diesel engines fitted with emission control systems such as DPF (Diesel Particulate Filters), SCR and DOC, while offering complete backwards compatibility with older models

TRIAX FLEET SUPREME ESP Synthetics contain built in friction modifiers, state-of-the-art viscosity improvers and ultra pure full synthetic base oils and result in a top tier products with one single purpose in mind - PERFORMANCE. These products meet and exceed a wide range of OEM specifications and performance requirements, including the latest diesel API CK-4 specifications.

SPECIFICATIONS:

API CK-4, CJ-4, CI-4 Plus,CI-4, CH-4
API SN (15W-40 ONLY)
ACEA E9-12, E9-16
CUMMINS CES 20086
MACK EOS 4.5
MB 228.31
DDC 93K222
CATERPILLAR ECF-3
VOLVO VDS-4.5, VDS-4, VDS-3
RENAULT VI RLD-4, RLD-3
MTU TYPE 2.1
DEUTZ DQC III-10 LA
FORD WSS-M2C171-F1 (FORD Diesel API CK-4 Equivalent Spec)
MAN 3575
SCANIA LDF-2
triax oil, triax fleet supreme, triax diesel oil, diesel oil, diesel synthetic oil, motor oil
PERFORMANCE HIGHLIGHTS OF THE TRIAX FLEET SUPREME SYNTHETIC CK-4 PRODUCT LINE
Complete protection for diesel and gasoline emission control systems such as Exhaust Gas Re-Circulation systems (EGR), Selective Catalytic Reduction (SCR) systems and Diesel Particle Filters (DPF).
Complete compatibility with virtually all major heavy duty diesel engine manufacturers
Significantly improves turbo-charger lubrication and longevity. Will not "cook" on the turbo bearings and will not cause deposits and sludge on it.
Superior extended drain capabilities to provide lowest cost per mile. 80,000 mile drains are quite frequent with class 8 trucks.
Outstanding friction modifying and wear reducing properties, up to 65% drop in friction coefficient vs industry standards
Significant improvement in overall engine component wear such as cams, valves, injectors, piston rings, bearings and other critical components.
Designed for heavy duty trucks for maximum longevity and protection
State-of-the-art detergent and dispersant package for outstanding deposit control preventing ash clumping and deposits.
Excellent fluid life and oxidation control, with superior stay-in-grade characteristics
Permits “dry” lubrication at engine startup and during cold winter months, significantly reducing startup wear.
Permits quick-fill lubrication flow during cold weather start-up, down to -44 C.
High retention TBN (slow degradation) which provides improved, long term acid neutralization and corrosion protection.
Provides year-round engine protection even in the most severe operating conditions
Outstanding stay-in-grade shear stability
PERFORMANCE
triax oil, triax 10w-30, triax fleet, synthetic oil
PRODUCT SPECIFIC HIGHLIGHTS
Very high shear strength
Extremely high 178 viscosity index
Cold flow down to - 43 F.
Fuel economy of 6 % vs 15W-40
Exceptional longevity - drain interval exceed 100,000 miles.
Outstanding thermal stability & viscosity control in high temperatures
Considerably quieter engine, substantially lower friction.
EXTREME DRAIN INTERVALS
Unique formulation with top tier components and synthetic base oils assures excellent long drain intervals.
PICKUP DIESEL TRUCKS: 20,000 miles
LONG HAUL HIGHWAY SEMI TRUCK: 100,000 miles
TRIAX FLEET SUPREME 10W-30 ESP Full Synthetic
FUEL ECONOMY AND ENDURANCE
The most advanced fuel economy formulation available provides outstanding fuel savings up to 6% (even higher in some cases) vs 15W-40 grade engine oils, without compromising film strength, resilience and durability under heavy loads.High Viscosity index assures exceptional thermal stability and viscosity control.

ULTIMATE PERFORMANCE
Ideal choice for on highway fleet trucks to maximize fuel economy without compromising durability and film strength.
OUTSTANDING WEAR REDUCTION Features our state-of-the-art Molybdenum and Boron friction modifiers built into the product.
LOWEST COST PER MILE DRIVEN: Triax Fleet Supreme ESP 5W-30 and 10W-30 offer the lowest cost per mile driven of all TRIAX products. Period.
powerstroke, oil, diesel oil, stiction
DIESEL POWERSTROKE PERFORMANCE
Eliminates stiction issues with injectors - no need for additional additives
Very high lubrication for valve spools and critical parts
Significantly quieter engine operation
Effortless startup in sub zero temperatures down to -42 F
In most cases, frees stuck piston rings, rapidly dissolving deposits left behind from other oils
triax oil, triax lubricant, diesel oil, engine oil, synthetic oil
EXCEPTIONAL WEAR CONTROL
Highly reduced start-up wear - Instant dry lubrication before the oil pump has a chance to circulate the lubricant dramatically reduces startup wear
Significantly reduces friction on virtually all components requiring lubrication
Greatly improved oil oxidation stability
Increased thermal stability - wont thin out or thicken out of grade - maintains optimal flow and lubrication
Significant improvement in oxidation viscosity degradation preventing oil starvation and deficient lubrication.
triax oil, triax lubricant, diesel oil, engine oil, synthetic oil
triax oil, triax lubricant, diesel oil, engine oil, synthetic oil
triax oil, engine oil, diesel oil, synthetic oil
EXTENDED DRAIN INTERVALS
Extreme extended drain capabilities make TRIAX FLEET SUPREME products very economical on a dollar for dollar, mile per mile basis.

1 to 3 oil change ratio vs most other fluids
A lot less down time
Improved component life
Inherent fuel economy
Capable of 100,000 miles + for class 8 semi trucks
Capable of 12,000-20,000 miles + for regular work, farm and day to day diesel trucks.
EFFICIENT DYNAMICS FUEL ECONOMY
TRIAX Fleet Supreme products built in friction modifiers provide our oils with the innate ability to reduce fuel consumption when compared to same SAE grade of most other products.

Average fuel economy improvement on F250-F350 trucks when switching from a 15W-40 grade any brand, to TRIAX FLEET SUPREME 15W-40 - will be 1.5 - 3.5 mpg in most cases. 5W-30, 10W-30, 5W-40 grades will provide even better fuel economy.

TRUE SYNTHETIC FORMULATION
All TRIAX FLEET SUPREME are true synthetic formulations made with the highest grade synthetic base oils, reinforced with top tier boosters and performance additives, imparting outstanding fluid properties and top notch customer retention.
 

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Whether or not you believe Ford has a valid reason for it (and I am on the fence on it) - here is their list:

https://www.fcsdchemicalsandlubricants.com/main/additionalinfo/dieseloilsWSSM2C171F1.pdf

I don't see the Triax oils on their list.

It goes back to the same old thing on many "boutique" oils. The "Meet or Exceed" statement. It looks good on the label, but it doesn't mean that it has actually been certified. Still, that lack of certification may or may not mean anything at all.
 

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Two tanks later with 5w40 mpg dropped from 17 and 18.6 to 13.2 and 13.6. Weird.
I know you posted this a couple month ago but I just saw it. A drop in mpg that big is not from switching oil. In my case when I saw a large drop it was the right rear caliper dragging, and my drop was about 5 mpg.
FWIW you can buy brand new Raybestos rear calipers from Rock Auto for similar price to rebuilt without messing with cores. Put them on my 05 and they're great. Put rebuilds on my 2000 and they suck, that truck will be getting new ones this winter when I install the Powerstop kit I bought for it.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Two tanks later with 5w40 mpg dropped from 17 and 18.6 to 13.2 and 13.6. Weird.
I know you posted this a couple month ago but I just saw it. A drop in mpg that big is not from switching oil. In my case when I saw a large drop it was the right rear caliper dragging, and my drop was about 5 mpg.
FWIW you can buy brand new Raybestos rear calipers from Rock Auto for similar price to rebuilt without messing with cores. Put them on my 05 and they're great. Put rebuilds on my 2000 and they suck, that truck will be getting new ones this winter when I install the Powerstop kit I bought for it.

Yea since then I’ve done front brakes and steering stabilizer. I’m getting used to my mpg being all over the place. Hit 20.2 mpg two months ago. I usually average 15-18.5 mpg. I use diesel kleen with every fill up and have the same commute for the truck almost every time I use it. I guess where I get diesel from is the biggest variable. I notice myself getting better mpg with fuel from quick chek than from shell. I’ve been tracking it on Fuelly since I got it if you guys want to check it out.
 

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Triax Oil

Whether or not you believe Ford has a valid reason for it (and I am on the fence on it) - here is their list:

https://www.fcsdchemicalsandlubricants.com/main/additionalinfo/dieseloilsWSSM2C171F1.pdf

I don't see the Triax oils on their list.

It goes back to the same old thing on many "boutique" oils. The "Meet or Exceed" statement. It looks good on the label, but it doesn't mean that it has actually been certified. Still, that lack of certification may or may not mean anything at all.
Found this on a post dated 1-15-18 concerning Traix oil and this is probably why not on ford's list.
Posted by FunWithKerossene - Review of Triax 5w-40 Fleet Supreme in a 6.0 powerstroke


A note on the API approval directly from Triax in an email correspondence with me:

"The reason why we do not have some of our products API approved is because of the heavy modifications which went into them. Mostly the use of esters and moly / boron combination, plus a higher grade VI improver. API certifies only pre-approved formulations. It costs only 4000 USD per year to get an API approval for a run of the mill formulation, which can be bought from any additive manufacturer. If those formulations change in any way (they dont care if you make it better), you have to pay API to approve it (300,000 to 500,000 USD per fluid per grade). People really forget that API is a business like any other business and API performance standards are really not that great compared to some of the OEM specs, especially Volvo VDS-4.5 / 4, MAN 3575, etc.

99% of the API approved motor oils on the market are cookie cutter formulas bought from one of the 5 major additive manufactures and blended into the oil. Essentially, users buy the same oil under hundreds of brand names. These formulations are pre-approved by the additive maker and sold to all their blender customers.

We do not do this, never have and never will."
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