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Discussion Starter · #21 ·
You need to be looking at the voltage reading from the sensors, the PCM will use internal numbers if the signal from the sensor is unreliable or out of parameter -- the voltage reading will always be accurate

Yours is an Axial Piston pump, it uses a rotating valve plate, that is subject to scoring -- when this happens the plates can separate under higher pressure, and come back together when the pressure lowers. I think this may what you are describing.

The other problem with tilting the truck making a difference in starting, may have todo with the HPOP leaking oil from the reservoir (worn pump shaft or seals) this leak will drain the reservoir over a few hours. The low pressure pump will refill it, but takes some cranking.

ScanGauge is an OK monitor, but falls short on reading codes -- look at ForScan, I have posted several times about it being the goto tool for these trucks
I will look into ForScan. The ICP voltages I listed above - are they readings to the computer from the sensors, or readings being applied to the controllers from the computer? Obviously the ICP pressure reading is a number calculated and displayed by the computer, not the actual pressure it's seeing. I'm stuck at the moment on the fact that the truck runs the same whether the ICP sensor is plugged in or not. That's great information about the pump I'm familiar with them - it sounds very much like what I'm experiencing except the the pump (according to the numbers and by the way it sounds and feels) can supply 1700 psi at 1/2 throttle, but not if I move the throttle past 1/2. That logically seems more like a safety feature. My plan right now is to replace the ICP sensor and see if that changes how the truck drives, as well as pulling the ICV to see what it looks like at the screen. I can do those cost effectively and without tearing into the top of the motor - I would replace it anyway if I do replace the pump.
 

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I scanned right past the numbers you posted, ...sorry about that

I think you have a damaged pump or the oil is aerated -- ForScan (PC version) can command the IPR -- I would do that and see if the pump can output the 3900 psi(4.8 volts) -- not sure on the RPM needed for the axial pump -- maybe 2000 - 2500

Have you looked at the oil filter? (and stand pipe) -- filter / cap combination and the drain valve are important here
 

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Discussion Starter · #23 ·
I scanned right past the numbers you posted, ...sorry about that

I think you have a damaged pump or the oil is aerated -- ForScan (PC version) can command the IPR -- I would do that and see if the pump can output the 3900 psi -- not sure on the RPM needed for the axial pump -- maybe 2000 - 2500

Have you looked at the oil filter? (and stand pipe) -- filter / cap combination and the drain valve are important here
Checking the filter is also on my list - the cap is OEM, the filter is Napa. I have to pick up some exhaust studs at Ford today and will get a filter while I'm there.

Wow ForScan looks great! I'm downloading it now - I already have an USB/OBDII cable.
 

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No codes

ICP sensor below - looks clean.

Cold start engine - 48 hours since last start, takes two tries. 1st starts and dies, 2nd starts after cranking longer and almost dies. Usually it takes 3 tries

When I left the driveway on cold oil it felt snappy and I saw 2865 ICP with ICV above 2.2 volts but the problem occurred, just later in the throttle position. Once the oil was above 140 it was fully problematic.

ICPv
  • KOEO: 0.15v
  • idle: 1.13v (cold)
  • idle: 0.96v (hot)
  • level steady speed:1.52v
  • when occurring: 1.03v (up hill, throttle down, low power)


  • View attachment 776532
Oh...and not sure if you meant to post that picture or not, but that's the EBP sensor, not the ICP sensor. On your truck (and early model 04's), the ICP sensor will be back behind the turbo on the HPOP next to the IPR.

-jokester
 
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I scanned right past the numbers you posted, ...sorry about that

I think you have a damaged pump or the oil is aerated -- ForScan (PC version) can command the IPR -- I would do that and see if the pump can output the 3900 psi(4.8 volts) -- not sure on the RPM needed for the axial pump -- maybe 2000 - 2500

Have you looked at the oil filter? (and stand pipe) -- filter / cap combination and the drain valve are important here
LOL - I went through that on PSN without results.
 

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Discussion Starter · #26 ·
Oh...and not sure if you meant to post that picture or not, but that's the EBP sensor, not the ICP sensor. On your truck (and early model 04's), the ICP sensor will be back behind the turbo on the HPOP next to the IPR.

-jokester
Doh! Well that changes things. I'll look there.
 

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Discussion Starter · #27 · (Edited)
I picked up the Motorcraft filter and pulled mine tonight. This has drained out, right? I did some more searching on this and realize now there is a drain in the housing that looks like it drains it when the filter cap is unscrewed, in addition to the inlet valve that keeps it from draining normally. Even with the filter drain I would have expected more oil on the filter. This was after sitting overnight.

776579
776580
 

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Discussion Starter · #28 ·
Update - I will be replacing the filter drain valve tonight with the new filter. Once running I will use Forscan to test the IPR valve and read the voltage from the ICP sensor.
 

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Also look at that harness where the oil filter housing is biting into it -- maybe see why the harness is rubbing so hard -- check for bare wires
 

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Checking the filter is also on my list - the cap is OEM, the filter is Napa. I have to pick up some exhaust studs at Ford today and will get a filter while I'm there.

Wow ForScan looks great! I'm downloading it now - I already have an USB/OBDII cable.
Uhm - the cap in the picture of post #27 is NOT an OEM cap ....................
 

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Uhm - the cap in the picture of post #27 is NOT an OEM cap ....................
Ha, I see that now that you mention it ... likely why the drain valve is not sealing -- for sure won't with a Ford filter in there

 
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Discussion Starter · #33 ·
As caught above the Napa 7213 filter for this engine does not use the OEM cap even though it does not say on the top 'Do Not Reuse'. Picked up a new OEM cap and a filter drain valve, changed the oil with Rotella T-6 5-40. It took a few attempts to start it as expected, drove it that day about 75 miles; no difference in ICP pressure or performance.
Ran ok at low throttle, no power/low ICP when moved past a certain point.

Next day (today) it started cold on the first attempt! I was really hopeful that maybe the hard starting problem was the oil filter drain valve and not a leaking HPOP, but after about 15 miles the ICP started dropping and things got much worse as it hardly had enough power to climb a slight grade. Pressing the throttle even a little sent it down into a stall. Tried to head home and it died at the next intersection as the ICP dropped below 300. Cranked but would not restart. After I towed it home about 2 hours later it started after cranking for a while (10 sec), very slow start up barely running that eventually became a normal idle. I was able to creep it into the shop. I'll try to start it cold in the morning and see how it acts.

One thing that may mean something - yesterday after the oil change when I was testing raising the RPM's by keeping it in 2nd and 3rd as I couldn't raise the rpm's in drive; the ICP would drop and it would just hang under 2000. I did see the ICP raise up above 2000 while I was driving like this - high RPM low throttle input, RPMS around 2800-3000 But, it did seem like the whole problem got worse after I did this.

I'm going to next look at values with Forscan once I get my adapter working to see the how the ICP sensor is responding and to pull the ICV to check the screen. Any advice is greatly appreciated.
 

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Discussion Starter · #34 ·
Went to start it after sitting 24 hours - started immediately on first try, idled normal. Waiting on cable for Forscan.
 

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Cut-N-Paste from my help files -- not all of this may apply to you

Gonna own a diesel, you need to be able to get codes and monitor the system when there is a problem

These should be mandatory for any 6.0
Fuel pressure gauge -- M12x1.5 thread adapter
Base oil pressure gauge -- test port on front of oil cooler housing 9/16x18 imperial o-ring fitting

I suggest downloading ForScan and using the OBDLink MX+ or the BAFX adapter for troubleshooting
Torque Pro would be good for everyday use with an old phone or tablet
Scan Gauge is small and simple -- can be mounted in front of the instrument cluster
there are other monitors, but the price goes higher

you do not need the license for troubleshooting

 
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