Ford Powerstroke Diesel Forum banner

1 - 20 of 33 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
28 Posts
Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Hello,

Looking for some advice on switching from Ford Gold to a (non ford gold) ELC.

New to me 2002 Excursion 7.3 233,xxx miles. I tested my Ford Gold coolant with the 3 way test strips by Fleetguard CC2602A and registered no pink color on the 3rd test block for the Nitrites, indicating to me its time to replace the coolant (see attached picture of test results).

Based on the service records I have and based on what I see under the hood, water pump and thermostat are likely all original.

My plan is to replace the thermostat and housing regardless. I do not have any current issues with the water pump, so I will let that go for now.





Options are Stick with Ford Gold or Switch to an ELC.


Do I have to perform a Flush in both of these cases? Or if I stick with Ford Gold do I just do a drain and refill?

My concern is if I don't perform an adequate flush AND switch to ELC, do I run the risk of a compatibility issue with the coolants?

It seems the trade off is more work now with a rigorous flush and switch to ELC (vs) a (in my opinion) easy, recurring, test for Nitrites.


Any perspective / thoughts you all can share would be appreciated.


(Ps I've read through this link which seemingly outlines everything but it would be good to get some other thoughts/experiences on the subject
https://www.thedieselstop.com/threads/cooling-system-flush-and-fill-methods-for-the-average-joe-and-the-perfectionest.215599/ )

Thanks.
 

Attachments

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
8,298 Posts
You don't need to do that "Big Time" flush if you've already got the Gold coolant (that's to change from silica based, Green, coolant which does have compatibility issues).

I would drain & refill with distilled water once then another drain and refill with ELC (my choice would be Rotella Red concentrate because you'll be leaving some water after the last drain). Maybe throw a full gallon of concentrate before you start mixing with distilled for the rest and test the concentration when you get close to being done. Tractor Supply is a good source for Rotella concentrate.

I wouldn't use Gold in any case (it doesn't even meet IH's minimum requirements).
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
28 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
You don't need to do that "Big Time" flush if you've already got the Gold coolant (that's to change from silica based, Green, coolant which does have compatibility issues).

I would drain & refill with distilled water once then another drain and refill with ELC (my choice would be Rotella Red concentrate because you'll be leaving some water after the last drain). Maybe throw a full gallon of concentrate before you start mixing with distilled for the rest and test the concentration when you get close to being done. Tractor Supply is a good source for Rotella concentrate.

I wouldn't use Gold in any case (it doesn't even meet IH's minimum requirements).
That's great Info thanks, I was thinking the "big flush" was needed when switching off Ford Gold....I guess that makes the decision to move to an ELC pretty easy. I think some if the ELCs are even cheaper than the Ford Gold anyhow.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,476 Posts
That's great Info thanks, I was thinking the "big flush" was needed when switching off Ford Gold....I guess that makes the decision to move to an ELC pretty easy. I think some if the ELCs are even cheaper than the Ford Gold anyhow.
there are different kinds of ELC too. I would highly recommend staying with Delo, Zerex, Rotella, Cat personally. Im 99% fleet final charge is good too but there are some ELCs that just say elc but do not have the same chemical composition and still need the additive from ford, used to be called fw-16 now its vc-8 I believe. Even Ford Gold like you see gets low on the additive package.

True ELC is very resilient and I swear caterpillars said up to 10% of an X gallon system can still be not drained and not affect the life etc. Don't quote me but you get the picture lol.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
645 Posts
I run the fleet charge that was mentioned. As far as I know it is not an elc. It comes pre charged however which is why I use it.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
458 Posts
I used the first one. Napa had good pricing and was more local to me than tractor supply. They did have to order it. My understanding is you don't want the nf one. Has to meet cat ec-1 spec (which the first one does)

Water pumps are some cash, but if you do it now, put 60 bucks in hoses on it, use the rotella you probably won't have to touch your cooling system for 300k to 400k miles. Food for thought. I just did this and my Water pump appeared to be lightly seaping out of the weep hole. 231k miles.

Sent from my SM-N920T using Tapatalk
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
28 Posts
Discussion Starter #8
I used the first one. Napa had good pricing and was more local to me than tractor supply. They did have to order it. My understanding is you don't want the nf one. Has to meet cat ec-1 spec (which the first one does)

Water pumps are some cash, but if you do it now, put 60 bucks in hoses on it, use the rotella you probably won't have to touch your cooling system for 300k to 400k miles. Food for thought. I just did this and my Water pump appeared to be lightly seaping out of the weep hole. 231k miles.

Sent from my SM-N920T using Tapatalk
Good thoughts indeed. Thanks for the feedback.

I did pick up this gem to replace the factory housing:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07KCCYFZB/ref=cm_sw_r_other_apa_i_1T3oEb4KEVQP9

Seemed expensive for what it was , but cheaper than two OEM stamped steel kind.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
28 Posts
Discussion Starter #9
Just a quick follow up - The first two links (Tractor supply and Amazon) ended up being the same bottle / packaging. The Amazon picture must be the old design, because the bottle showed up looking like what is on Tractor supply website.
Bottle says on the back quote "suitable for use against the following: ASTM D3306, D6210 Caterpiller EC-1, Cummins CES 14439, Detroit Desiel 7SE298, Freightliner 48-25961, Mack 014GS17009, Navistar MPAPS B-1 Type III, PACCAP CS0185, Volvo 184001, TMC RP329, and TMC RP338"

Not sure if "suitable for use" is equivalent to "Meets or Exceeded", but never the less, the CAT EC-1 is there on the bottle.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,085 Posts
What are some of the problems one might run into switching from the Ford "green" to a ECL??????
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
28 Posts
Discussion Starter #11
What are some of the problems one might run into switching from the Ford "green" to a ECL??????
What year is your vehicle ?

From what I have researched , if you have a 7.3 motor manufactured prior to 2/2/99 (pre-SN 940614) your engine is not compatible with an OAT style coolant and you need to continue to use green, or conventional coolant.

Outside of that requirement, the green should be flushed completely if you choose to switch to an ELC.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,085 Posts
What year is your vehicle ?

From what I have researched , if you have a 7.3 motor manufactured prior to 2/2/99 (pre-SN 940614) your engine is not compatible with an OAT style coolant and you need to continue to use green, or conventional coolant.

Outside of that requirement, the green should be flushed completely if you choose to switch to an ELC.
My first 7.3 was a 2000 and it had green, I now own a 2001 and a 2003 and they both have green. I don't mind adding the SCA or changing the coolant every 30K, both truck in the past 2 weeks have had new water pumps installed and when I went to Ford the parts guy was confused because according to his chart they should have the Gold coolant, not green. It's a controversial topic on the internet about switching to a ECL
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
458 Posts
Good thoughts indeed. Thanks for the feedback.

I did pick up this gem to replace the factory housing:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07KCCYFZB/ref=cm_sw_r_other_apa_i_1T3oEb4KEVQP9

Seemed expensive for what it was , but cheaper than two OEM stamped steel kind.
No problem, it's hard to want to spend the money lol. I possibly have a 1500 mile move coming up, so figured if im swapping coolant, I ll just do it all now and not thinking about it for a decade ha ha!

That rotella is good stuff, you'll be just happy!

Sent from my SM-N920T using Tapatalk
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
458 Posts
My first 7.3 was a 2000 and it had green, I now own a 2001 and a 2003 and they both have green. I don't mind adding the SCA or changing the coolant every 30K, both truck in the past 2 weeks have had new water pumps installed and when I went to Ford the parts guy was confused because according to his chart they should have the Gold coolant, not green. It's a controversial topic on the internet about switching to a ECL
Like rocketman said, early 99s have the compatibility issue, other then that it's all about getting the green out.

From all the research I have done, you're 01 wouldn't surprise me if it was green, but that 03 should have been gold (again from my reading, also heard it was hit and miss....maybe different factories?)

The switch to elc has been highly debated, and there are many threads across the net on the subject. But, if you dig deep, and also look at newer threads (not ones from 08),you'll see many people switching to elc with no issue. The gold was a slight attempt at that, but didn't really make the cut. More frequent changes than a true elc. The go to flush procedure (gooch' s flush) is commomly used for changing to elc and that procedure is referenced everywhere.

For me, the reason I wanted to do it was because of the few horror stories of green coolant cavitating and busting into cylinders scrapping the motor from lack of coolant maintenance. Seems extremely few and far between, but I hadn't maintained the green since i have had the truck (didnt know i had to) and figured rather than just swapping in some fresh green and still doing maintenance (or starting to do maintenance in my case), i figured just spend a little more, and spend a day and do the flush. That snowballed into water pump, riff raff billet housing, upper and lower radiator hoses, new lower outlet, and thermostat. Now I shouldn't have to touch the cooling system for 200 to 300k miles (basically when it needs another pump).

Apparently nothing wrong with green if your changing it regularly (2 years ish) and keeping up on your sca maintenance, but i just asked myself why? It's really only a few bucks more to covert to a respected elc and don't have to mess with it and will last at least 5x longer.

The confusing part for me was which damn elc to go with. So many opinions lol. What it comes to is meeting that cat ec-1 spec. From my research (and research only) i would do the rotella or the peak fleet charge (i think that's what it's called). I went with rotella from napa, 18 and some change a gallon for concentrate.



Sent from my SM-N920T using Tapatalk
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
28 Posts
Discussion Starter #15
My first 7.3 was a 2000 and it had green, I now own a 2001 and a 2003 and they both have green. I don't mind adding the SCA or changing the coolant every 30K, both truck in the past 2 weeks have had new water pumps installed and when I went to Ford the parts guy was confused because according to his chart they should have the Gold coolant, not green. It's a controversial topic on the internet about switching to a ECL
Like rocketman said, early 99s have the compatibility issue, other then that it's all about getting the green out.

From all the research I have done, you're 01 wouldn't surprise me if it was green, but that 03 should have been gold (again from my reading, also heard it was hit and miss....maybe different factories?)

The switch to elc has been highly debated, and there are many threads across the net on the subject. But, if you dig deep, and also look at newer threads (not ones from 08),you'll see many people switching to elc with no issue. The gold was a slight attempt at that, but didn't really make the cut. More frequent changes than a true elc. The go to flush procedure (gooch' s flush) is commomly used for changing to elc and that procedure is referenced everywhere.

For me, the reason I wanted to do it was because of the few horror stories of green coolant cavitating and busting into cylinders scrapping the motor from lack of coolant maintenance. Seems extremely few and far between, but I hadn't maintained the green since i have had the truck (didnt know i had to) and figured rather than just swapping in some fresh green and still doing maintenance (or starting to do maintenance in my case), i figured just spend a little more, and spend a day and do the flush. That snowballed into water pump, riff raff billet housing, upper and lower radiator hoses, new lower outlet, and thermostat. Now I shouldn't have to touch the cooling system for 200 to 300k miles (basically when it needs another pump).

Apparently nothing wrong with green if your changing it regularly (2 years ish) and keeping up on your sca maintenance, but i just asked myself why? It's really only a few bucks more to covert to a respected elc and don't have to mess with it and will last at least 5x longer.

The confusing part for me was which damn elc to go with. So many opinions lol. What it comes to is meeting that cat ec-1 spec. From my research (and research only) i would do the rotella or the peak fleet charge (i think that's what it's called). I went with rotella from napa, 18 and some change a gallon for concentrate.



Sent from my SM-N920T using Tapatalk
Great summary. This is basically the jist of about 5 or 6 hours of research ive done. which is why I started this thread because I was getting mixed results in researching.

Any how, my 2002 appears to have had gold from the factory for what ever that's worth (bought it from the original owners and have all the records).
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
77 Posts
I used the rotella shown from tractor supply for mine too. I also added the dual alternators upper radiator hose that goes around the serpentine rather than through it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
28 Posts
Discussion Starter #17
I used the rotella shown from tractor supply for mine too. I also added the dual alternators upper radiator hose that goes around the serpentine rather than through it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I am about to head to advance because my upper radiator is a little pitted inside from the rusty upper thermostat housing. I think I'll go this route too.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
87 Posts
Please pardon my ignorance.

When y’all say “green”, are you talking about standard green Prestone type coolant?

And is the “SCA” that you speak of?


I’m about to R/R my oil cooler and will need to replace coolant lost.

I’m 99% certain that my 2000 has “green” coolant in it.

How much additive should I add, I’m assuming that my truck probably didn’t have any.
Coolant “looks” clean/good.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,476 Posts
Please pardon my ignorance.

When y’all say “green”, are you talking about standard green Prestone type coolant?

And is the “SCA” that you speak of?


I’m about to R/R my oil cooler and will need to replace coolant lost.

I’m 99% certain that my 2000 has “green” coolant in it.

How much additive should I add, I’m assuming that my truck probably didn’t have any.
Coolant “looks” clean/good.


If the truck has an engine build date of 2/2/99 or newer you can use Green or gold with the sca addative now called vc-8 you have the right stuff in the picture. from what I read. usually 3 bottles the first time then test it twice a year and seems most folks add 1 bottle a year and drain/refill the whole system every few years. But if your truck is a year 2000 model check the valve cover and see. Id rather run ELC coolant and I do. I need to verify my build date because originally people were saying don't use elc in engines with 12/98 or older now im seeing International says 2/2/99 or older don't use it lol... The elc eats at the injector cup sealant in the older engines. the 2/2/99 and up had some new sealant used that resisted the elcs organic acid technology.


If your engine is new enough use ELC its cheaper and if you're ocd just drain and refill (no flush needed) every 5 yrs. Most elcs are good for 300k/500hrs though. Rotella, Zerex, Caterpillar, and Fleet seem to be the most readily available.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
87 Posts
If the truck has an engine build date of 2/2/99 or newer you can use Green or gold with the sca addative now called vc-8 you have the right stuff in the picture. from what I read. usually 3 bottles the first time then test it twice a year and seems most folks add 1 bottle a year and drain/refill the whole system every few years. But if your truck is a year 2000 model check the valve cover and see. Id rather run ELC coolant and I do. I need to verify my build date because originally people were saying don't use elc in engines with 12/98 or older now im seeing International says 2/2/99 or older don't use it lol... The elc eats at the injector cup sealant in the older engines. the 2/2/99 and up had some new sealant used that resisted the elcs organic acid technology.





If your engine is new enough use ELC its cheaper and if you're ocd just drain and refill (no flush needed) every 5 yrs. Most elcs are good for 300k/500hrs though. Rotella, Zerex, Caterpillar, and Fleet seem to be the most readily available.


My build date is October 99
2000 model year.

If I understand you correctly.

I can drain as much as possible, then simply refill w/the ELC?

I’m going to be replacing seals/O rings in oil cooler.
From what I’ve been able to gather, radiator gets drained, small plug in block gets removed, and the lower hose gets removed. Additional coolant lost when oil cooler is removed.

Is that enough of the old coolant removed to not create issues by refilling w/ELC?


Edit:
I’m seeing ECL nf (nitrate free)
And
ELC
 
1 - 20 of 33 Posts
Top