Surprised by GVW and GVWR - Ford Powerstroke Diesel Forum
General 6.7 Discussion (2017-2019) General 6.7 Discussion

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post #1 of 24 Old 08-04-2019, 08:44 PM Thread Starter
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My wife and I went looking around at potential 5th wheels this weekend and found one that we fell in love with. Now being the numbers guy that I am, I started down the GVW, GVWR and pin weight rabbit hole.

Camper that we liked was a 2019 Montana 3720RL. 39.5 Ft long, 13.2k dry weight and 16.8k GVWR. All within my F350 SRW CCLB limits for towing (18k). What I started to question was the pin weight of 2765. So before any longer discussions on trading our travel trailer and pricing etc, I decided to just swing by a local CAT scale and see what we were working with. That’s where I was honestly surprised.

Just over 1/4 tank of fuel, 3/4 tank DEF, just me and my wife (340 lbs combined) and the truck weighed in at 8440.

Subtracted from 11.5k GVWR and that left me 3060. Add a full tank of fuel and gear to camp with that quickly drops to around 2600-2700 remaining capacity. Obviously leaving me unable to legally (per GVWR) buy and tow this rig.

Now I know that this is a pretty large 5th wheel. But from everything I’ve seen and we have looked at. The average pin weight and dry weight is around 13-14k and 2600-2800 respectively. Which leads me to wonder...

All these trucks, especially 250’s that I pass hauling triple axle toy haulers and 40+ foot long 5th wheels.. are they really just blowing their GVWR out of the water?

Looking for everyone’s opinions on this as I know it’s a semi contested topic from everything I’ve read. It’s illegal to exceed any weight limit, but are there that many people who do?
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post #2 of 24 Old 08-04-2019, 09:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Coops361 View Post
My wife and I went looking around at potential 5th wheels this weekend and found one that we fell in love with. Now being the numbers guy that I am, I started down the GVW, GVWR and pin weight rabbit hole.

Camper that we liked was a 2019 Montana 3720RL. 39.5 Ft long, 13.2k dry weight and 16.8k GVWR. All within my F350 SRW CCLB limits for towing (18k). What I started to question was the pin weight of 2765. So before any longer discussions on trading our travel trailer and pricing etc, I decided to just swing by a local CAT scale and see what we were working with. That’s where I was honestly surprised.

Just over 1/4 tank of fuel, 3/4 tank DEF, just me and my wife (340 lbs combined) and the truck weighed in at 8440.

Subtracted from 11.5k GVWR and that left me 3060. Add a full tank of fuel and gear to camp with that quickly drops to around 2600-2700 remaining capacity. Obviously leaving me unable to legally (per GVWR) buy and tow this rig.

Now I know that this is a pretty large 5th wheel. But from everything I’ve seen and we have looked at. The average pin weight and dry weight is around 13-14k and 2600-2800 respectively. Which leads me to wonder...

All these trucks, especially 250’s that I pass hauling triple axle toy haulers and 40+ foot long 5th wheels.. are they really just blowing their GVWR out of the water?

Looking for everyone’s opinions on this as I know it’s a semi contested topic from everything I’ve read. It’s illegal to exceed any weight limit, but are there that many people who do?
“Illegal” you kidding sir? GvWR printed by Ford is a “recommendation”. Ford is a company not a judicial branch of our govt. nothing “illegal” about the folks you mentioned. Ever ride a roller coaster? See the warning sticker? Not “recommended” for: pregnant, young, sick, ect. Same as your door sticker. Ford just covering their as$. A late model F350 is fully capable of towing any fifthwheel made. Now driver ability, different story. Since your asking us I’m going To confidantly assume it will be pushing your personal ability and please do be conscious of Saftey for the rest of us.
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post #3 of 24 Old 08-05-2019, 02:11 AM
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All these trucks, especially 250’s that I pass hauling triple axle toy haulers and 40+ foot long 5th wheels.. are they really just blowing their GVWR out of the water?

Well....if it's a 3/4 ton truck then yes. As I have traveled up and down I-95, I-65, and I-20 there's plenty out there on the road doing just what you have said. Some "look" overloaded, some "look" just fine.



Otherwise @jetjock15 is right on the money.



Not to mention: What did you use as a pin weight % to get to 2,675 lbs?? Is that from the trailer or what the truck carries??
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Obviously leaving me unable to legally (per GVWR) buy and tow this rig.
Truck rated 18k tow rating= 15% pin weight @ 2700lbs, 20% pin weight @ 3,600lbs
Trailer rated 16.8k GWR rating= 15% pin weight @ 2520lbs, 20% pin weight @ 3,360lbs

By the trailer numbers you are on the South end of the pin weight % but it's within the 2600-2700 lbs you calculated.



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post #4 of 24 Old 08-05-2019, 04:00 AM
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People travel illegal all the time pulling trailers and don't even realize it is my thought. I will admit I pulled my 2017 5er for a couple years with my 03 CCSB 6.0 without an issue though. I weighed 24,000+ combined towing fully loaded. Now my wife's new rig pulls it and we weigh 26,000+. If you look at the stickers on bigger trucks they all have gcwr that are over exceeded on a daily basis. My work truck has gwr of 24,000 and weighs in at 48,000 but is licensed for 48,000 so is legal. I would talk to your insurance company if you are concerned and just verify you will be covered in an accident. To me the most important part about pulling and hauling my 5er is the people in the vehicle while doing so. I added a 1,000,000 policy to any vehicle I am driving to be overinsured. My insurance told me if I was ever in an accident with my 03 I would still be covered they go by the incident not the gwr, or gcwr.
While shopping for a new vehicle I went with a 450 because of the added braking ability and stability of 19.5's over 17's.
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post #5 of 24 Old 08-05-2019, 05:47 AM
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As long as you don't go over you front and rear axle ratings you are fine legally. You can be over your GVWR but still within your axle ratings.
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post #6 of 24 Old 08-05-2019, 09:09 PM
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I have a 5'er that maxes out at 20K. A year prior to getting it I had purchased a new F250. There were no creative calculations I could come up with that safely allowed me to pull my 45' 5th wheel RV. Same drive train and engine, but the frame and braking power is what will get you when transferring the weight onto the tow vehicle while braking. I see people all the time pulling similar RV's with a F250, but not safely if they are loaded up. When I had the F250, I purchased a drop axle that had 30K capacity and independent hydraulic brakes that kept the load off of my tow vehicle. Since this picture, I have moved up to a DRW F350 and don't use the drop axle anymore.
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post #7 of 24 Old 08-06-2019, 07:53 PM
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It’s a 5er? Conventional travel trailer towing was 18,000lbs and the 5er was 22,500 or something like that if I remember correctly. The GVWR rabbit hole is slippery slope and I agree with Jetjock on this one.
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post #8 of 24 Old 08-12-2019, 04:50 AM
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You’re close enough I wouldn’t sweat it. You will be within a couple hundred lbs. plus there’s a chance depending on how you load it that some of the trailer tongue weight could shift to the back.

Don’t go on the rv sites and start asking though...you will get everything from a f150 can tow a 42ft toy hauler, to you need a f450 to tow a 18ft TT.

Honestly my lack of understanding is how I ended up with our current TT. I bought a f250 prior to owning a trailer and looked at fords bs specs. The truck I actually bought is a lariat and the gvwr is far less than what for quotes in their spec list. These trucks are extremely capable and within tow a lot of weight, but you will run out of gvwr long before you actually reach that towing weight.
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post #9 of 24 Old 08-12-2019, 05:15 AM
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There is a difference between “Legal” (questionable as to who would determine this) and “Liable”. If I knowingly exceed capacity, and have an accident, I don’t want to be the one on the stand having to answer the question, “Did you knowingly exceed... ?” Right or wrong, the opposing attorney just has to convince the jury that you were aware of what you were doing, and you are now liable for your own actions.

Your insurance carrier also may deny a claim that you file if you “knowingly” exceed. I don’t want to be on the hook to pay for my own repairs or the liability claims that may come against me because of this.

You have also created a CAT scale record of the weights. In this computer age, who knows if that could come into play.

Just saying...

Last edited by Tom in PGH; 08-12-2019 at 05:19 AM.
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post #10 of 24 Old 08-12-2019, 07:58 AM
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Insurance can not deny the other parties claim against you if you were at fault in an accident
but they can come after you for restitution

you can imagine that about any decent size Towable living quarters / truck camper ETC is over the trucks "limit "
unless it's a dually and even then a gasser and 2x4 to get the highest rating ( boring )

personally i consider the tire / rim capacity the most important and for towables this is usually not a concern
but for slide in truck campers it is a major concern
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