Debating on moving away from Ford diesels to a GMC - Page 3 - Ford Powerstroke Diesel Forum
General 6.7 Discussion (2017-2019) General 6.7 Discussion

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post #21 of 52 Old 06-05-2019, 04:19 PM
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Have you tried Lara Ford in Sullivan MO? Same dealership that owns the GMC dealership in IL?
Lara bought all 3 brands in Sullivan.
GM, Ford and Dodge.
Here's the Ford #
(573) 677-1310
Best of luck to you.
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post #22 of 52 Old 06-06-2019, 06:27 AM
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My $.02

I have driven them all. Worked as an advisor at a local Dodge dealer for year and a half. We'd got the 4500s & 5500s in quite often and the guys always looking for more factory power. When moving any Cummins around I was always looking for the power (even the few I drove on the road). We had a guy dead set on bringing us his F450 to us at Dodge (even with our sister store Ford next door) and for being an 11 I was surprised at the power the Ford had.
In the past a buddy and I drove a new 14 Platinum and I was kinda hooked. So while working for Dodge I bought my 15 6.7 cclb Platinum. I still love the thing (waiting for 100k to delete, warranty).
I went to pick up a car and was going to borrow a buddy's trailer but he just said take his truck attached to the trailer. It was a 15 Chevy 3500 with the Duramax. Again I felt little power, more than the RAMs but less than my Ford. I felt cramped and it road like a car, to me that's not a truck. I pulled that same trailer with my 15 about a year later with the same car (different car but the same parts car) a much longer distance and never felt lacking in power at all.

As for front ends I've seen all the stuff online about the GM IFS but never have seen anything in person showing a catastrophic failure, even when me and my buddy burried his 12 3500 Duramax in his pasture, had to call a Ford to get him out.
While at Dodge we had so many Rams with ball joint issues. I had one guy on his 4th set, in 45k, since I started and those were all warranty since he had paid for it once shortly before I started.
I have had zero issues with my 15 since I bought it other than on those super cold gelling days (once a year) in which everyone else was out several days after me.
IFS does not belong in 3/4+ trucks. My OBS 7.3 has one and I am not super convinced one way or the other on it but I feel it's harder to work on.

Back in college my teacher and I had this discussion about the brands trucks back from the 90's and I think this still applies.
Dodges have the nicest interior.
GM has the best ride but putting any weight in them they show it bad.
Fords are the trucks that can take the weight and work.

Out where I live the farmers mostly use Fords as there work trucks to take the abuse and then have a nice shiny new GM for their driver.

My guess is that you'll have most guys on the corresponding forums say their brand is the best.
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post #23 of 52 Old 06-06-2019, 02:03 PM
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I'll give my "unbiased" opinion here since I am not brand loyal and have owned all brands in the past several years and all bought brand new. I tow about 10,000 pounds on a regular basis. Probably 2/3 of the miles on my truck are towing.
  • 2005 Ram Cummins Dually- This truck was fine except for the 4 speed auto. Never left me stranded but the constant shifting was a little annoying. Had a fuel pressure box and exhaust. Was running 22.5 wheels with 37" tires.
  • 2009 Ram Cummins Dually Laramie- I bought this in the spring of 2009 when they had huge discounts. I ended up trading in my 05 that was just a big horn and upgraded to a Larmie that was about $15,000 of sticker. This truck had the 6 speed auto which was a big improvement over the 4 speed. Plus factory exhaust brake plus a few other improvements was a big upgrade over my 05. Transferred over my 22.5" wheels to this truck. Added a smarty programmer which upped the fuel pressure and timing.
  • 2012 F250 Lariat Powerstroke- I ended up putting an 8 inch lift on this and 40 inch tires shortly after I got it. My biggest complaint on this truck was the SYNC system. Dealt with problems daily. For one, the by the time the back up camera came on I was already backed out of my driveway going forward. Some days every time I started the truck I would get a warning that I had too many songs on my iPod to work via voice (didn't care)...other times it wouldn't say this for weeks. Had to pull the fuse on the radio sometimes daily because it would lock up. Bluetooth very often didn't connect to the truck. This seems to be VERY common from other friends that had Fords from the same time frame. But my phone wouldn't even ring when it wasn't connected like this. Also I wouldn't get any text notifications when I as in my truck since the SYNC muted them. You had to be almost standing next to the truck for the remote start to work. Even in the owners manual I think it said you had to be within 30 feet or so. I found it laughable that a diesel truck of this size would only come with a 25 gallon tank! Even a short trip while towing would require fuel stops. I found the rear started to sag over a year of towing. Wouldn't be a big deal on a raked factory truck but on it lifted it was noticeable. I also felt like for a truck that had a $63k sticker the interior just felt cheap. Plastic everywhere. What I can say I liked is the 6.7 had tons of power. I'd say it was comparable to my modified Rams. Even with the huge lift and tires it felt like it drove about the same as a stock truck. I never had any major problems with it. Mainly sold it since I had enough equity in it to pay off my Z06, upgrade to a new truck and have a lot less in payments in a month
  • 2014 Ram 2500 Longhorn- After buying all my trucks local and "settling" on the options I wanted I decided to go out town and get the exact truck I wanted. I was not disappointed. The Longhorn interior was way beyond that of the F250. It had options galore: keyless start, auto high beams, auto windshield wipers, "ramboxes", among so many other things. The coil over springs on the rear made the truck a lot smoother too. It was no half ton but way better than any of the other trucks I'd owned. I know people like to hate on the mirrors but those mirrors you can actually see BEHIND a trailer compared to the Ford/GM mirrors when extended. And they look the best/less noisy when folded into normal mode. This was also the first vehicle I got in and instantly didn't feel the need to upgrade the sound system (so tired of getting "premium audio" that sounds like ***). I decide to keep this truck a little more stock than the F250. I leveled it but ran 20x10 wheels with 35" tires so had to do a bit of fender trimming. What I didn't like is that is the first HD truck I owned that didn't really "feel" fast to me like the others did. And while the 6 speed auto in this truck never left me stranded, it did do some funny things randomly. I did have a front wheel bearing failure at 45K...I'm sure the off-set wheels didn't help but was surprised since I don't really off-road the truck. Decided to sale this just to shuffle some money around and pay off my motorcycle.
    [8]2019 Denali 2500- Have wanted one of these for my last two trucks but it didn't work out either time so I ended up withe F250 and the Ram. I am not impressed. While the transmission is unbelievable, (even when not towing), it always seems to be in the right gear. And the Duramax has plenty of power. I do like the 36 gallon tank and the IFS makes the front a lot smoother than a solid axle. That is about all the good things I have to say. So many things I dislike and mainly it's because I was spoiled with the Longhorn and know what Ford comes with for the same price. I feel like I'm driving a rental car when I get in this thing. Sticker of $72k and they don't even offer keyless start or heated rear seats?!?! Manually work the windshield wipers like a peasant lol. No aerial back up camera view option? Audio is adequate at best. Hardly any storage. I'm surprised it has auto headlights. I will say in my opinion I still feel the interior is more expensive looking that the Ford. My brother just bough a 2017 Platinum F250 and some things about it just feel like I'm in a Jeep due to all the plastic. But I love all the options it has over mine....he still has that tiny little fuel tank though. I will probably be moving on to something different probably by the end of the year.

While I'll probably be getting something new within the year I still have no idea what I want. Still love the Ram interior...especially with the giant display. But not real sure on the looks...don't hate them but don't love them either. The Aisen transmissions aren't easy to find with the options I want but like the option of air bags on the rear from the factory. Still need to start seeing more of the 2020 GM products to make a decision on them. The Chevy looks too over the top. The GMC may be okay but if they have so few options like on my current truck I can skip it altogether. The Ford is still a good looking truck for 2020 but I'll have to go with a F350 since I don't like the lowered look of the 250s they will be having...plus that small fuel tank drives me nuts. Curious to see how the joint "Allison" 10 speed transmission that Ford/GM co-developed works out. Hope this helps someone out.
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post #24 of 52 Old 06-06-2019, 04:19 PM
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The fuel tank in a CCSB 17+ is 34 gallons or is supposed to be. There's a TSB about it. If you're brother isn't seeing that, he needs to look up the TSB and take it to Ford. Mine was replaced under the emissions system warranty.

Not sure what you're talking about with "all the plastic". The Ford doesn't have any more than the others. I've been in them all too. Fact is, you're gonna get plastic, no matter what you buy, unless of course you want a Rolls Royce.

My remote start works at least 400 feet away. That's about as far as I've tried it, could be farther. You also have the option of starting it with your phone if you're on the other side of the world.

I'm not sure what you mean by the "lowered look of the F250s". maybe you know something I don't about the 2020 models, but my 2017 CCSB FX4 is taller than my friends 2018 GMC Denali after he put a 4" lift and 35's on it. My truck does have a leveling kit on the front, but that's all.

I'm a Ford guy and I don't apologize for it, but I also respect the other brands for what they are. The Fiats have come a long way from where they started, but lets be clear, if it weren't for the wise decision many years ago to make a deal with Cummins, there probably wouldn't even be a Dodge/Ram truck today. At least not in the HD variety. The Duramax is a good engine and the Allison trans is acceptable, but they have there shortcomings as well. Pick your poison.
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My old Truck, now son's truck:
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post #25 of 52 Old 06-06-2019, 08:10 PM
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Interesting to know about the small tank size issue. I'll have my brother look into that. He was *****ing about the size of the tank and I was with him the other day when the tank was close to being empty and only held 22 gallons. One more thing I did like about my Ram was it had an actual DEF gauge on the dash too.

Yes, everything is plastic these days...just felt like the others hid it better. The new ones are much better than my '12 was for sure. Even though it was a Lariat it felt like it could just be hosed out like a Jeep hard plastic everywhere. This is one of the reasons I opted for a Longhorn for the next truck since it had real wood, stitched dash, padded plastic, piping on the seat, etc.

Your '17 remote start may work from 400 feet away but I'm just telling you that my '12 you had to be almost in the truck for it to work. Tons of people on here were *****ing about it which is when someone pointed out in the manual it even says you can only be a short distance away. I think the issue may have been fixed in '13 or '14 because I remember talking to someone about it.

If you look into the 2020 model Superdutys the F250 is going to be much lower than the 350. I suppose to try to compete with GM and their tiny little trucks? Maybe so it fits within a 7 foot parking garage? I personally like the tallness of the Rams and Fords but apparently they are going different routes between the 250 and 350 next year.

And yes, this is why I'm not brand loyal. They all have issues and advantages so I buy what I like. I have always liked the GMC 2500 kinda because they are small; so they aren't enormous when you lift them. Though I am just not happy enough with my Denali 2500 to dump any more money into so looks like I'm rolling stock this year. Maybe my next truck will be a Ford. Definitely feel like I should've hopped on a plane to Texas and bought the one I was considering.
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post #26 of 52 Old 06-06-2019, 09:15 PM
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I kind of agree with all the plastic in the ford interior. I know all trucks have probably just as much plastic but it seems to stand out in the ford. I have an 18 F350 Limited 350SRW and compared to the Ram Limited, mine feels so cheap. I think it’s because Ford put in way too many different colour and material combination. There’s fake looking wood, little chrome accents, cross hatched metalish/plastic , black plastic etc. It seems like the designer had a list of what looks were in higher end luxury cars and had to check all those boxes. The limited ram interior feels very classy and like the smallest detail wasn’t overlooked. That’s personal preference. I don’t think the Denali is even in the same market as interior design goes. Hell, my buddies 2500 Denali has plastic plugs in his dash covering holes for missing option. They didn’t even try to cover up the fact that an option was missing. Just plug the hole boys.

When I bought my 2012 Ram 2500 6.7, on the test drive, it felt really slow compared to the competition. I was planning on deleting before I even took delivery so I knew that wasn’t going to be a problem. It wasn’t, that truck was extremely powerful after I deleted it. Best sounding truck I have ever heard and none of it was from the exhaust system. Bullet proof, especially after my first tranny failed at 240,000km and I put a monster rebuilt one in. lol. Ford had problem with the gearing between 3-4 gears. That was what the tranny guy said.

For my needs:

GMs: Too low to the ground, filling def under hood is stupid, def tank hangs down too low, low towing ratings, have to lift them 6” for 35s and you will still have to cut some of those square wheel wells out. Very basic interiors and lack of storage. Technology is lacking. But hell, can’t beat that ride.

Dodge: known ball joint problem (non grease-able so throw in a set of moogs), they are also too low for my needs - level and 2” block in the back is a must, technology has caught up to the fords in the 19s. Feels slow-needs a tune for sure. Command start cold operation is a joke - trucks don’t warm up unless you run outside and set the high idle with the cruise control buttons, AC in summer to stay cool requires the automatic high idle to kick in.

Ford: great factory height - didn’t need lift or bigger tires, class leading tech (for 18s and previous), electrical gremlins, cheap parts (tee fittings on coolant lines, cheapest 400W inverter know to man, nothing just feels solid, no dielectric grease in exterior non waterproof wire harnesses)

(I normally lift because I need the ground clearance. Bigger tires are the only way to get ground clearance)

The reason I went Ford is because I was sick of lifting, after market rims and the damn Ram AC and Heat issues listed above. Ford had the most technology and I really enjoy the glass roof. Never open it like a sunroof but it makes it feel so open in the cab. I’m in the truck about 8hrs per day while working. Ford for me had more to offer than the competition. I wanted a high end trim level because I don’t care about the outside and what other people see. I care about how comfortable I am inside the truck on my 1600km trip to my work location. When I get to work, that’s where the 4x4 comes into play daily.

To sum it up, buy whatever fits your lifestyle. You want an HD truck to get groceries, pull a small TT, or be able to park really close to the front doors in any parking lot, and not get shaken baby syndrome driving down rundown roads, get a GM. Nobodies judging.

You want a decent truck that will give you subpar times on a racetrack but has the best engine on the market and the best thought out interior, get the Ram. Jeez, you even get to put the Id rather be cummin than stroking decal on your back window.

You want a truck that will do everything for you but wipe your arse, get the ford. You will have to suffer through weird electrical issues which make you scratch your head and you’ll have to do simple fixes on plastic parts on your weekend. No big deal. We all like tinkering.

All these trucks go after a certain demographic. With my experience with all these brands, my next truck will be.............. whatever truck suits my needs the best when I buy one in 4yrs. (Will have Limited slip rear end for sure)

To the diehard brand loyal people, I neither have the time or the crayons to explain why brand loyal people are suckers. Lol
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post #27 of 52 Old 06-06-2019, 09:28 PM
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There have been some improvements since your 2012 and if you tend to lift your trucks the lowered stock stance on the 2020 F250 wont matter. Compared to now I think it will be 1" lower in the rear and a 1/2" front.
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post #28 of 52 Old 06-07-2019, 04:54 AM
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@IsItFast The TSB is attached.
Attached Files
File Type: pdf 17-0046.pdf (64.7 KB, 19 views)

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2017 F-250 Lariat CCSB FX4 SRW- A few Forscan tweaks
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post #29 of 52 Old 06-07-2019, 05:28 AM
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Originally Posted by 84flatbed View Post
There have been some improvements since your 2012 and if you tend to lift your trucks the lowered stock stance on the 2020 F250 wont matter. Compared to now I think it will be 1" lower in the rear and a 1/2" front.
There have been many improvements to the Ram since 2012 lol. The things that haven’t been improved are the automatic high idle is needed for AC to operate in high temps and the warming up in the winter needs the cruise control button engaged higher idle. A pipeline inspector bought an 18 and came and asked me about both those issues so I know they exist in the 18s. He was pissed about both as it was his first ram and he just traded off his ford. I just traded off my ram and this was my first ford. We talked a lot about this. Lol. Doubt the 19s are any better.

As for lifts, that’s what I liked about the 18F350. It came stock with 34” tires and had great ground clearance. A stock size set of studded duratracs was all I needed for my winter operation.

I’m surprised that ford is lowering the f250. To me, it makes sense to lower the f350 for all those guys struggling with 5ers due to the height. Maybe the leering will help the fuel mileage and entice more half ton owners to step up to a Superduty.
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post #30 of 52 Old 06-07-2019, 05:50 AM
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Originally Posted by Jasonburrwc84 View Post
Is there not a mass volume super duty dealer that lists rock bottom pricing on the internet? I prefer the super duty but not sure its worth 10k more. Any internet volume dealer recommendations would be greatly appreciated.

Koons dealers out of the northern Virginia area. They're widely known in the Jeep world, and their Ford pricing isn't bad either. Lots of times they are worth driving across the country...
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