Gravity Feed Tanks - Ford Powerstroke Diesel Forum
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post #1 of 16 Old 06-24-2019, 06:12 PM Thread Starter
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Gravity Feed Tanks

Looking for some direction and guidance. I currently have a 98 gallon TransferFlow tank in my bed. Works like a charm and has been absolutely amazing. We have recently changed our lifestyle....long hauls with the RV to owning a horse and not as long of a haul. I am contemplating selling the TransferFlow tank and installing an RDS Tool Box/Aux Tank combo (40-60is gallons). More importantly, I need the tool box. I am riding around with a backseat full of stuff that needs a home so other folks can ride in the truck.

I honestly thought diesel gravity feed tanks were legal....ATTA makes you think otherwise. I have dug into the CFR codes they call up, but they leave out the fact it has to do with gas....not diesel.

With ALL that being said, since I already have power available, I was looking to get a normally closed solenoid and an inline pump to hook up to an upfitter switch. Would give a little piece of mind. The pump would also allow me to filter the fuel once prior to going into the main tank. Now, before anyone says it is not gravity fed if I put a pump into the system...I believe it is still classified as such, since the fuel comes out the bottom of the tank, vice the top.

What say everyone? Am I on the right path? What pump and normally closed solenoids would be recommended?

Thanks!

Cale

PS: If in the JAX, FL area, I will have a tank for sale. It is still being used and will stay that way until I sell it.


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Cale
US Navy 1995-Present

2015 F-350 CCLB DRW, Lariat,
2nd Gen. 6.7L "Scorpion" Turbo Diesel,
440HP/860TQ, Torque Shift 6-speed,
Metallic w/Black Leather Interior,
14,000 LB GVWR,
4x4,
4.30 Gears,
Factory 5th Wheel/Gooseneck Prep Pkg.,
Spray In Bed-Liner,
Supplemental Cab Heater,
Camper Pkg.,
Upfitter Switches,
98 gallon Transfer Flow Bed Tank,
Timbrens,
10,150 lbs (CAT),
29,950 lbs with 2014 Voltage 3950 Toy Hauler (CAT).



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post #2 of 16 Old 06-24-2019, 07:34 PM
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Quote:
Gravity Feeding is Illegal
Here are some laws (regulations) which pertain to gravity feed fuel tanks, and why they are illegal.

49 CFR CH.III (393.65) 6d; Gravity or siphon feeding is prohibited.
49 CFR CH.III (393.67) 7.4.5.; Fuel withdrawal fittings. The fittings through which fuel is withdrawn from a tank must be located above the normal level of fuel in the tank when the tank is full.
In other words, the fuel must come from the top of the tank and not from a fitting on the bottom. .
While that is an excerpt from the federal commercial level on ATTA's site under "what is legal?" so how does that make it sound legal ?
I am sure u can find DOT for any fuel tank that the feed can't be from the bottom like a sump that you would ad to a tank or an aux tank with a bottom fitting

that being said (not endorsing but people do it all the time ) bottom feeders ;-)

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post #3 of 16 Old 06-25-2019, 12:28 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZMANN View Post
Quote:
Gravity Feeding is Illegal
Here are some laws (regulations) which pertain to gravity feed fuel tanks, and why they are illegal.

49 CFR CH.III (393.65) 6d; Gravity or siphon feeding is prohibited.
49 CFR CH.III (393.67) 7.4.5.; Fuel withdrawal fittings. The fittings through which fuel is withdrawn from a tank must be located above the normal level of fuel in the tank when the tank is full.
In other words, the fuel must come from the top of the tank and not from a fitting on the bottom. .
While that is an excerpt from the federal commercial level on ATTA's site under "what is legal?" so how does that make it sound legal ?
I am sure u can find DOT for any fuel tank that the feed can't be from the bottom like a sump that you would ad to a tank or an aux tank with a bottom fitting

that being said (not endorsing but people do it all the time ) bottom feeders ;-)
Again, as I said above, those codes have everything to do with gas. Please read below:

Here's the COMPLETE wording
49 CFR CH.III (393.65) 6d Gravity or syphon feed prohibited. A fuel system must not supply fuel by gravity or syphon feed directly to the carburetor or injector.


It looks like Atta left out the part about it not being allowed if it is supplied by gravity or syphon feed directly into the carb or injector.

Obviously a gravity fed aux tank does NOT feed directly into the injectors. It merely flows diesel down into the main tank, which then pumps the diesel into the fuel system of the vehicle.

49 CFR CH.III (393.67) 7.4.5
(iv) For gasoline- and methanol-fueled vehicles with a GVWR of 14,000 pounds (6,400 kg) or less, the vehicle must comply with the applicable fuel-spitback prevention and onboard refueling vapor recovery regulations of the Environmental Protection Agency under 40 CFR part 86.
(v) Each fill pipe must be fitted with a cap that can be fastened securely over the opening in the fill pipe. Screw threads or a bayonet-type point are methods of conforming to the requirements of paragraph (c) of this section.

Atta states that the fuel withdrawl has to be from the top. Well this law applies to GASOLINE not diesel.

Furthermore the first section of 49 CFR CH.III (393.67) 7.4.5 states:
(a) Application of the rules in this section. The rules in this section apply to tanks containing or supplying fuel for the operation of commercial motor vehicles or for the operation of auxiliary equipment installed on, or used in connection with commercial motor vehicles.

Found all of this online, have to do a little reading/research. Please, back to my original question...

Thanks.

Cale
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Cale
US Navy 1995-Present

2015 F-350 CCLB DRW, Lariat,
2nd Gen. 6.7L "Scorpion" Turbo Diesel,
440HP/860TQ, Torque Shift 6-speed,
Metallic w/Black Leather Interior,
14,000 LB GVWR,
4x4,
4.30 Gears,
Factory 5th Wheel/Gooseneck Prep Pkg.,
Spray In Bed-Liner,
Supplemental Cab Heater,
Camper Pkg.,
Upfitter Switches,
98 gallon Transfer Flow Bed Tank,
Timbrens,
10,150 lbs (CAT),
29,950 lbs with 2014 Voltage 3950 Toy Hauler (CAT).



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post #4 of 16 Old 06-25-2019, 09:21 AM
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Under 393.67 I found this

5) Fuel withdrawal fittings. Except for diesel fuel tanks, the fittings through which fuel is withdrawn from a fuel tank must be located above the normal level of fuel in the tank when the tank is full.

https://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/retriev...se49.5.393_165

That link gives you everything you need to know. Straight from FMCSA


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post #5 of 16 Old 06-25-2019, 11:26 AM
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I wouldn't want to draw from the bottom. I was thinking about doing something similar with a tank off of a refrigerated trailer. They have a 3/8 od plastic line that goes in from the top, that way you can keep it off the bottom in case you get contamination or water. I'd like to see what you come up with.
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post #6 of 16 Old 06-25-2019, 12:16 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gridder View Post
I wouldn't want to draw from the bottom. I was thinking about doing something similar with a tank off of a refrigerated trailer. They have a 3/8 od plastic line that goes in from the top, that way you can keep it off the bottom in case you get contamination or water. I'd like to see what you come up with.
I honestly don't mind pulling from the bottom, as I would definitely run it through a fuel/water separator. Drawing from the top may leave enough water in it over time that algae would start to grow. My other concern though with running it through the bottom would be if the system failed open....sure, the easy answer would be to not open the factory tank.

The tank I am looking at is the RDS-72744. There is the draw at the bottom for fuel. Then up under the lid (apart from the toolbox) is the filler cap, a rollover safety valve, and another fitting that allows for a pick-up line to be installed for drawing fuel through the top.

Here is what I do not know, can I mount the pump and filter high enough such that the siphon would be broken when the pump is off? The fuel part of the tank is only 12.5 inches high. Then I could run the pump off a push button or Upfitter Switch.

Cale


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Cale
US Navy 1995-Present

2015 F-350 CCLB DRW, Lariat,
2nd Gen. 6.7L "Scorpion" Turbo Diesel,
440HP/860TQ, Torque Shift 6-speed,
Metallic w/Black Leather Interior,
14,000 LB GVWR,
4x4,
4.30 Gears,
Factory 5th Wheel/Gooseneck Prep Pkg.,
Spray In Bed-Liner,
Supplemental Cab Heater,
Camper Pkg.,
Upfitter Switches,
98 gallon Transfer Flow Bed Tank,
Timbrens,
10,150 lbs (CAT),
29,950 lbs with 2014 Voltage 3950 Toy Hauler (CAT).



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post #7 of 16 Old 06-25-2019, 12:30 PM
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With that logic.... Fuel tank sump kits would be illegal to sell.

@loxdce
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post #8 of 16 Old 06-25-2019, 12:32 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LoxDiesel View Post
With that logic.... Fuel tank sump kits would be illegal to sell.
Which logic? I am missing the context.

Cale


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Cale
US Navy 1995-Present

2015 F-350 CCLB DRW, Lariat,
2nd Gen. 6.7L "Scorpion" Turbo Diesel,
440HP/860TQ, Torque Shift 6-speed,
Metallic w/Black Leather Interior,
14,000 LB GVWR,
4x4,
4.30 Gears,
Factory 5th Wheel/Gooseneck Prep Pkg.,
Spray In Bed-Liner,
Supplemental Cab Heater,
Camper Pkg.,
Upfitter Switches,
98 gallon Transfer Flow Bed Tank,
Timbrens,
10,150 lbs (CAT),
29,950 lbs with 2014 Voltage 3950 Toy Hauler (CAT).



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post #9 of 16 Old 06-25-2019, 12:34 PM
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Reading the regulation it is illegal to draw from the bottom of a tank. Yet they sell the toolbox tanks with the fittings to plumb into the factory tank.

@loxdce
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post #10 of 16 Old 06-25-2019, 12:38 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LoxDiesel View Post
Reading the regulation it is illegal to draw from the bottom of a tank. Yet they sell the toolbox tanks with the fittings to plumb into the factory tank.
Right, and there was one of my hang ups. If you really get into the reading of the CFR, it is speaking to gasoline not diesel. I also believe for diesel, gravity feed is illegal for commercial, not for you and I. I am also of the mindset that if they are selling them (and it doesn't say "For off road use only", then it is legal. I paid $2200 for my TransferFlow years ago. I don't want to drop that kind of cash again, especially if this is simpler to install.

Cale


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Cale
US Navy 1995-Present

2015 F-350 CCLB DRW, Lariat,
2nd Gen. 6.7L "Scorpion" Turbo Diesel,
440HP/860TQ, Torque Shift 6-speed,
Metallic w/Black Leather Interior,
14,000 LB GVWR,
4x4,
4.30 Gears,
Factory 5th Wheel/Gooseneck Prep Pkg.,
Spray In Bed-Liner,
Supplemental Cab Heater,
Camper Pkg.,
Upfitter Switches,
98 gallon Transfer Flow Bed Tank,
Timbrens,
10,150 lbs (CAT),
29,950 lbs with 2014 Voltage 3950 Toy Hauler (CAT).



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aux tank , gravity , gravity fed , inline pump , normally closed solenoid

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