Manual Transmission, 4.11 or 4.30? - Ford Powerstroke Diesel Forum
 
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post #1 of 10 Old 07-14-2019, 11:07 AM Thread Starter
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Manual Transmission, 4.11 or 4.30?

Hey all,

Even though I've viewed threads on this site for a few years now, this will be my first post. There is a lot of very useful information here and I wanted to thank you all for that, but now to the question.

I've got an '05 F350 with the 6.0 and a manual transmission, studded, Warren 155/30, KC Stage 2, TSD tune, and a few other improvements. Now the truck makes lots of power obviously at higher RPM but with the stage 2 it really struggles off the line in 1st and Low is too low. It's got 3.73 gears on 35's and I was wondering if I should go either 4.11 gears or 4.30? I've done a ton of searching and it seems everything I've come up with is from guys with autos, which don't have quite the same struggle off the line as a manual would (I'd assume). I will be towing a fair bit and even though I'm in the middle of Wyoming, I won't really hit the highway doing 80 too terribly often.

Thank you!
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post #2 of 10 Old 07-14-2019, 12:59 PM
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I have a 35s with 3.73s and it works great with my 6 speed, but mine is also a 7.3 which has more low end than a 6.0. You might want to contact you tuner and tell them to add more low end fueling to get you moving easier. If that still doesn't help, and you want to change gears 4.10s are what I would get.

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post #3 of 10 Old 07-15-2019, 03:15 AM
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If you don't do highway speeds often, I would go 4.11s. I run 35's with the 3.73s but I do a lot of highway driving. Even with the 3.73s I'm sitting around 2,100 RPMs at ~80mph.

No doubt 1st gear is sluggish, but I've learned to deal with it. Are you still on the OEM single disc clutch?

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post #4 of 10 Old 07-15-2019, 04:23 PM Thread Starter
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00t444e: For sure those 7.3's are much better on the lower end. I worked for a guy years ago and pulled about 14k with his 7.3 and manual and there's way more low end than these little 6.0's. I may have to contact TSD again and see what they can do. Maybe I've got other problems other than needing to re-gear?

Chris: I'm still on the stock clutch, will upgrading help a bit? It's also not really the sluggishness once I get rolling that's getting to me, it's the truck trying to dang near die every time I try and just start rolling if I'm not on anything except mostly flat ground. However like 00t444e said, maybe that's just a tune and fueling thing?

I also just found the site grimmjeeper in my searches, and after plugging everything in it looks like there's only about 100 rpm difference between 4.11 and 4.30 at all speeds. 4.30 may be more what I'm looking for to get my rpms up quicker and to get the turbo spooling quicker, but I still like to hear what others have to say as real world experience can differ much from a chart.
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post #5 of 10 Old 07-16-2019, 02:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reemanator View Post
Chris: I'm still on the stock clutch, will upgrading help a bit? It's also not really the sluggishness once I get rolling that's getting to me, it's the truck trying to dang near die every time I try and just start rolling if I'm not on anything except mostly flat ground. However like 00t444e said, maybe that's just a tune and fueling thing?
Unfortunately, both in my experience, from what other ZF6 owners have told me and the feedback I have received from multiple tuners is the manual transmission combined with the 6.0 creates a truck that is a dog down low. I use my truck for everything from daily driver, long hauls, 5th wheel towing, home depot parking lot crawler, etc. Knowing this and after talking to Charlie at KC, I went with the stage 1 instead of the 1.5 or 2. With a manual trans, I wanted to try to eliminate turbo lag as much as possible, which I believe is the problem you're having.

I asked about your clutch because once I did the turbo/tune combo, my stock clutch wouldn't be able to hang on over about 70% throttle.

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post #6 of 10 Old 07-17-2019, 01:13 AM
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I have a 2006 6.0 manual with 4.10. I have a 2001 7.3 manual that came with a 3.73 that I put 4.30 in. I run both barefoot and with 10k+ trailers. Barefoot I run the max speed limit which is 80 in parts of Texas. 100 rpm difference between 4.10 and 4.30. I prefer the 4.30 for towing. If I ever need to replace the 4.10 in the 2006 I will put a 4.30 in. That manual trans has a good and low LOW gear. Yeah uh hu.

NOTNOW > 2001 F350 CCLB DRW SCHTICK SHHHIFTER
WONTON > 2002 F350 CCLB DRW OTTOMATIC
FTCOBRA > 2006 F350 CCLB DRW SCHTICK SHHHIFTER
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post #7 of 10 Old 07-17-2019, 05:47 PM Thread Starter
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I think I'm leaning more towards 4.30s now after doing more research and realizing it's only 100rpm difference. Plus if I ever need to take a long trip with nothing to tow I'll just nab the wife's escape.

Chris, what clutch are you running? I know how to replace them but I don't know the difference between single, dual, and all that jazz.
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post #8 of 10 Old 07-17-2019, 08:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reemanator View Post
I think I'm leaning more towards 4.30s now after doing more research and realizing it's only 100rpm difference. Plus if I ever need to take a long trip with nothing to tow I'll just nab the wife's escape.

Chris, what clutch are you running? I know how to replace them but I don't know the difference between single, dual, and all that jazz.
You know if you gear it that low you'll be taching about 2300-2500 RPMs on the Interstate, you fuel milage will tank big time and your oil will run hotter. When my 6.0 runs much over 2K on highway trips I notice it in MPG and temps. 2000 RPMs seems to be the magic number at least in my 6.0 Unless you're towing real heavy I wouldn't go any lower than 4.10 and I'd look at tuning or turbo before I'd do that.
My 7.3 dually has 4.10's and a 6 speed and I don't like taking it on trips because it tachs so high. It's lucky to get 12 MPG on a trip where my 6.0 will get 17 running cruise control at 75 mph and RPMs are just a touch above 2k. The 7.3 pulls good though.
I have a feeling your problem is turbo lag, my 6.0 is a good bit laggier than my 7.3

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post #9 of 10 Old 07-17-2019, 09:26 PM
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I dont understand why people are so afraid to run their trucks above 2000 rpm. Yes the gas mileage will be lower and thats it. These engines were designed for meduim duty trucks that are geared low and turn 3000 rpm. a friend use to drive an Inny bob tail 7.3 and turn above 3k all the time. I have put tens of thousands of miles on my 06 6.0 and 02 7.3 where the speed limit is 75 and 80 and the traffic usually runs 80 and 85. My engines purr along. Back in the 60's and 70's gas engines use to turn 3k+ at 70 mph. The 6.0 was designed to have a higher rpm power band than the 7.3. So whats the problem besides lower gas(diesel fuel) mileage ? There isnt any problem. About 190,000 miles on my 6.0 and about 143,000 miles on my 02 7.3. Both with 4.10. I forget what the miles are on my 01 7.3 with 4.30. I'm going across the country and back often. Here are 2 fotos taken in my 02 7.3 with a 4.10 and Sam Wise stage 2 auto. Mods are 4" turbo back MBRP straight pipe, AFE intake, heavy duty radiator, aluminum over flow tank, Hydra chip. I keep it set on 120HP.

Instrument foto shows rpm at 80 MPH. Add 100 RPM for 4.30 gears. Btw the torque converter locks up at 40 mph iirc.
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NOTNOW > 2001 F350 CCLB DRW SCHTICK SHHHIFTER
WONTON > 2002 F350 CCLB DRW OTTOMATIC
FTCOBRA > 2006 F350 CCLB DRW SCHTICK SHHHIFTER

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post #10 of 10 Old 07-18-2019, 02:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Reemanator View Post
Chris, what clutch are you running? I know how to replace them but I don't know the difference between single, dual, and all that jazz.
I'm running a South Bend SFDD3250-6.0 dual disc. I plan on continuing to slowly modify the truck over the years and opted for a clutch that can actually put the power to the ground.

If you've never driven a truck with a dual disc, they can be a bit of a pain in the *** to get used to. I've never driven a truck with a Valair dual disc, but I've heard good things. This is the third truck I've had a South Bend dual disc in and they all have their quirks.

The noticeable difference to a stock clutch is a little more pedal pressure to engage, the clutch doesn't fully engage until nearly the bottom of pedal travel, they are more "grabby" and getting into first or reverse can take more effort if you're at a complete stop. This is just my experience with South Bend dual discs. The best thing about it is ripping up an on ramp, slamming through gears, and not have to back out of the throttle because the clutch is slipping.

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