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How much better are the 05-07's vs the 03-04's?

28K views 34 replies 15 participants last post by  mhatlen 
#1 ·
I'm in the market for a nice used 03-07 F250 with the 6.0 in it. I've been reading through all of the info on the site...and I see lots of contradicting info. Some people say that the 03-04 are the best years, other guys are saying that the 06-07's are the only ones to get. Other people say that they are all pretty much a crap shoot...you really never know if you are going to get a good one or not.

Besides the suspension....what other differences are there between all of the different years? Should I bee looking for an 05, or try to stick with an 06-07?


Any info would be great! Thanks
 
#3 ·
#6 · (Edited)
Typically the 05-07 6.0L's have the following issues (and be aware that at the mileage you are looking at, some of these issues may or may not have already been addressed):

HPOP STC fitting prone to failure (one piece fitting will address this).
Dummy plugs and standpipes prone to leak - updated parts will address this. Late 04's have these issues also.
Weak fuel pressure regulator - updated regulator spring will fix this. All 6.0's have this issue.
EGR cooler prone to leak - BulletProfDiesel makes an EGR cooler that won't leak, or install a good EGR delete. The late 04's have this issue also.

OEM coolant (all years) is prone to gelling with excess heat, when mixed with other coolants, if exposed to combustion gas, or if not properly maintained (30-40k drain/flush/fill intervals). This gelling WILL plug the oil cooler and problems will "domino".

OEM FICMs aren't tolerant of low voltages and can fail often (all year models). A 190A (Leece Neville makes a good one) or higher alternator is highly recommended. Also, getting upgraded components installed in your FICM is highly recommended. FICMrepair.com is the best place to help you with these issues. Good batteries are a MUST! I like a quality AGM battery (Odyssey's are expensive but the best I know of).

Brakes and suspension are better for the 05-07. The upfitter switches are also a nice feature not available on the earlier model years.

05-07's also have some nice injector and turbo upgrades.

Coolant filters are good mods, but even more importantly is to use a good coolant. Switching to a name brand CAT EC-1 rated ELC coolant is a must. A proper flush is required for best results. Most shops won't take the time for a proper flush, so this is a DIY project. Lots of forum threads on this.

Ultimately, you would want a fuel pressure gauge installed. Low fuel pressure (45 psig or less at any time) can damage injectors. At higher mileage (200k miles +), injectors may be required before too long anyway. If they have already replaced injectors, find out what they bought and from whom. The best injectors (unless you are going bigger) without a doubt are OEM remanufactured injectors. Sometimes low fuel pressure can be a weak regulator spring, plugged fuel filters, excessive water-in-fuel or dirty fuel, weak pump in the HFCM, etc. Might be a cheap fix or might cost $400 plus.

Be aware that 03 and 04 model years have a weak HPOP (fairly expensive), but they are not as prone to leaks in the HPO system AND they have a fairly strong EGR cooler. Also, the 04 model year is a transition year. The 04's have 3 different versions (early, middle, late) that can affect what parts you buy. The forums pretty much have the major parts issues and requirements well documented for the 04, but even for dealership parts guys can have trouble getting the right parts.

03's and even 04's are prone to wiring harness issues and generally have more sensor problems than 05-07 (ICP sensors and harness especially, but also EBP sensor).

Lastly, the 04 and 05 Excursions can be somewhat of a parts problem as well. Seems Ford dumped in older parts into these trucks to work down excess inventory.
 
#7 ·
i had a 2007, put 50K on it in the 4 years i owned it.

maintained it meticulously, had a quality tune and I never had an issue outside of normal wear and tear. (stock head bolts too)

i vehicle is only as reliable as its owner.
 
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#12 ·
The 2005-2007 F250 had some very big upgrades that were huge improvements for the truck. The Dana60 was put up front along with larger brakes and a coil sprung front suspension with radius arms replacing the leaf spring front suspension. The newer axles also improved the turning radius in 2005.

The interiors also were upgraded in 2005 with a more plush dash and door panels along with larger instrument panels. Stereo systems were upgraded to full double DIN size of a 8" DVD/NAV sized head unit.

The front ends were upgraded with split bumpers and larger headlights etc. The engines were also upgraded as stated above by Mr. Bismic with the upgraded HPOP and wavy rail high pressure rail etc for withstanding the 4000 psi the engine needed to reach the Ford required HP of 325HP. There was a redesigned turbo that spooled at lower RPM's along with the new EGR Cooler 100mm water pump.

Yes the upgraded parts that were put in the engines were absolutely needed to improve the reliability of the 6.0 which by 2005 was reeling from a horrible reputation that Ford wanted desperately to improve on. But with the HPO system upgrades came a whole new set of poorly engineered parts that caused many more engine breakdowns as well as more lawsuits from ambulance companies. Late 2005 Ford was moving forward with ending the relationship with International after the latest design flaws that eventually caused every truck with a Powerstroke to cost Ford billions in warranty repairs as well as lost customers.

I changed my mind I'm not going any further here. Clear your computers cache and memory along with this forum and search on Dodge 2500 with Cummins engines. Yea seriously that's what I would do now myself if I had to do things again. Those Ford trucks are awful. Ford F-MONEY PIT-250

Your Welcome
 
#13 ·
The 2005-2007 F250 had some very big upgrades that were huge improvements for the truck. The Dana60 was put up front along with larger brakes and a coil sprung front suspension with radius arms replacing the leaf spring front suspension. The newer axles also improved the turning radius in 2005.

The interiors also were upgraded in 2005 with a more plush dash and door panels along with larger instrument panels. Stereo systems were upgraded to full double DIN size of a 8" DVD/NAV sized head unit.

The front ends were upgraded with split bumpers and larger headlights etc. The engines were also upgraded as stated above by Mr. Bismic with the upgraded HPOP and wavy rail high pressure rail etc for withstanding the 4000 psi the engine needed to reach the Ford required HP of 325HP. There was a redesigned turbo that spooled at lower RPM's along with the new EGR Cooler 100mm water pump.

Yes the upgraded parts that were put in the engines were absolutely needed to improve the reliability of the 6.0 which by 2005 was reeling from a horrible reputation that Ford wanted desperately to improve on. But with the HPO system upgrades came a whole new set of poorly engineered parts that caused many more engine breakdowns as well as more lawsuits from ambulance companies. Late 2005 Ford was moving forward with ending the relationship with International after the latest design flaws that eventually caused every truck with a Powerstroke to cost Ford billions in warranty repairs as well as lost customers.

I changed my mind I'm not going any further here. Clear your computers cache and memory along with this forum and search on Dodge 2500 with Cummins engines. Yea seriously that's what I would do now myself if I had to do things again. Those Ford trucks are awful. Ford F-MONEY PIT-250


Your Welcome
Yeah...I hear that a lot.....and it makes me pretty gun shy on the 6.0s. I do turn my own wrenches, and can/have repaired just about everything you can think of. Rebuilt motors, transmissions, tansfercases......that stuff doesn't scare me. I do like the 5.9 Cummins motors......but every 04-07 Dodge I see with one is just falling apart.....and if you are lucky enough to find one that is in good shape with no rust, they want $30,000 for them....which is INSANE! vs. an F-250 in the same shape for $15,000. Are the 2500's DOUBLE the truck?
 
#15 ·
What I was wondering is why so many recent posts on a 6.0L forum asking for advice to buy something other than a 6.0L truck?

Far too often a person has bought a used 6.0L, not followed the advice here on checking them out, not followed the advice here on preventative maintenance and monitoring, had problems (which can happen with ANY used vehicle purchase) and then complained about it.

I liked your angle mhatlen ............... If someone is that worried about buying a 6.0L ...... then don't! Simple as that.
 
#20 ·
^^ this.

I have a 6.7 and it is a great motor, runs like a striped ape and pulls like a freight train. I am however, due to financial reasons, going to sell it and get an 05-07 6.0. Due to early issues and people not monitoring and maintaining them, they have become the best bang for the buck. The 6.0 is a really nice motor in a great truck and makes the 7.3 seem like a dog.
 
#16 ·
Don't forget about the transmission. The 05-07 transmissions have better components internally. Also, the front pump is a much better improved designed over the 03-04 pump. When I put an 06 tranny in an 03 I had, I couldn't even give away my still good 03 tranny. Anybody who came and looked at it and saw it was from an 03 passed. I don't remember all the differences off the top of my head, but I do remember the 05-07 transmissions are in fact better, especially the front pump design.
 
#17 ·
I don't recall any changes in the transmission between '03-'07. Not saying there wasn't any, just I don't remember hearing it before. They did make a few upgrades when they went to the 6.4 in '08, but it didn't make the trans substantially stronger IIRC. Maybe no one wanted your '03 trans because they thought it was a 4R100 from a 7.3. :dunno:
 
#18 · (Edited)
I'm by no means a transmission expert, but a few different websites say they are different. A local respected diesel shop is the one that originally told me about when I was looking for a replacement. Here are a couple things about it.

"In 2003-2004 models, Ford used what was left of a large amount of 4R110 ring gears and planetary assemblies.There is a large difference in the heavier duty parts used in the 2005 models."

"In 2003-2004 5R110 models, the Low Reverse ring gear hub had holes machined into it to cut weight in the finished unit. This proved to be a fatal flaw as these ring gears hubs broke under stock hp levels. Ford upgraded the hub to solid steel in 2005 which remedied this issue."

https://www.dieselsite.com/5R110heavydutytransmission.aspx

That's the site where I got some information and it has pictures. There was something about the front pump being different too. Something about a relief cut or something, but of course I can't find it with a quick search.
 
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#22 ·
As far as the trans even the 03’s and 04’s are still very dependable. My brothers 03 died at 325k ONLY because he was a dummy and dumped Lucas in it! 5r’s do not like thick oil!
Good info, there.

...and you can't really blame him. He was done in by the cool countertop demo at the local NAPA dealer. :)

 
#23 ·
I bought an ‘03 new, and traded it in on my ‘06, for the suspension upgrade with WAAAYY tighter steering radius. I had zero problems with my ‘03 in 3 years and 100,000 miles. My ‘06 has earned it’s keep. It rides significantly better stock than my ‘03 with Deaver springs(which are the single best suspension upgrade for leafs). My brakes on the ‘06 go 100,000 miles easily. All this while pulling very heavy trailers. My ‘06 had dummy plugs, stc and stand pipes, as well as FICM done by 80,000 under warranty. I think that most trucks had many of these common fixes done early on. My egr cooler went at 167,000 milesafter a 2,500 mile tow of a 16k trailer. That is when I deleted and started running 40hp FICM tune and Looney. At 235,000, my thermostat stuck closed on a long grade towing 15k. So at 258,000 studs and head gaskets. These trucks are better than the reputation says. I think knowledge, maintenance, and having a 6.0 mechanic you trust, in your rolodex, is better than a cummins in a falling apart rattle trap with a transmission you are afraid to use.


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#25 ·
I agree that most of the trucks had the updated parts instal long ago while still under warranty. My first F250 lost the SCT at 42K and was not even two yers old at the time.

I just have a hard time believing there’s trucks running today on the faulty o-rings and STC fitting. But as low the odds are I suppose we are talking about millions of trucks that rolled off the assembly lines. Some surely had to be pushed. lol

But the 6.0 has become a good engine once they hammered out the fixes for the HPO systems. It really has few issues today UNLESS:

It’s tuned with stupid HP
The maintenance is not done.
Coolant isn’t kept up by changing as needed
Just flat out abused

The F250 is so much nicer of a truck then Dodge or GM
Anyone that’s chooses the other is not educated on the facts. That is the reality of it
 
#26 ·
I just had a buddy admit to me today that his ‘06 Duramax is falling apart inside. He says it runs good, but he just keeps chucking out interior parts as they fall off or drive him nuts rattling. Haha.


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#29 ·
I work with a young guy that also owns a 2006 Chevy and he had blown head gaskets replaced on his a year ago. He also has had injector issues with it.

Its been ok for him but when you see the two trucks side by side there is no comparison in quality. The interiors of the Chevy's are cheap and don't look as well designed or put together. The drop brackets for the IFS looks like hell the you have to look at the drop brackets for the torsion bar mounts along with the funky control arm setups needed as well. The spindly CV axles to the front wheels have also been changed out on his I'm sure from the extreme angles hes running them at.

I would not buy a Chevy 4x4 because of the front setup, we have a 2003 Tahoe and its fine for that. But there is NO WAY I would hang 38's on our Tahoe yet theres little difference with the trucks.
 
#27 ·
I'm also hunting forna 2005-07. The info on this forum about 6.0's is invaluable.
I currently own a 2012 6.7 ( 79k on it now )that i fully deleted about a year ago. While i do love it i still have to get an 6.0 - nothing on the road sounds like one. I had a 2003 cummins and while the 5.9 was fine, as stated the truck was complete junk. Transmission, tq converter, rear end issues and I'm OCD with maintenance. Yes it was tuned but very mild with custom tuning.
Then came the signature rotted double pinchweld wheel arches and tailgate rot. **** interior and horrible front end.

I have always loved the 05-07 f250 and have seen several for sale here in MI. It just so happened one of the trucks i looked at seemed very familiar. Talking to the kid who was selling it ( red flag #1 ) he mentioned he had you tube videos of burnouts amd how well his "bulletproofing" held up ( flag #2 )
I see so many of these owned by kids that pound the hell out if them. I really am trying to fimd that old guy who used it occasionally to pull a trailer or the like.

The quest continues

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#28 ·
There is a small car lot near me that always seems to have a couple of clean 6.0’s. Currently they have an ‘06 shortbed 4x4 for around $16,500.


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#30 ·
When I was in the market for a new truck I did some light research because I already knew I wanted the truck. My research wasn't so much focused on what is the best year to get but moreso on what problems will I encounter. Both year sets have their issues as well as their strong suits so it all really depends on what you feel comfortable with. I am used to the leaf front suspension and it's a simpler design in my opinion (not to mention those trucks are cheaper) so I was originally looking for the 03-04's but when I found my truck I just instantly bought it. It was the KR I wanted, CCSB FX4, the only issue was that it's white. The one and only piece of advice that I tried to follow was to stay away from modified trucks. If it's studded you can assume it was blown up and you have to wander what else is warn out / did they use quality parts and install them right? If I seen my truck but studded / EGR delete / the "regular" stuff done to a 6.0 I still would've bought it but seeing it was completely stock made me happy. 30k miles in less than a year and she's still chugging along nicely.
 
#31 ·
LOL
Ok but didn't you throw in the Race tune into your truck ? That is all the ingredients needed for that blown up thing requiring that stud thing.

The 6.0 really is venerable in 3 ways:

(1) Turbo locking up over-boosting

(2) Tuners making more HP

(3) Gold Coolant getting oil cooler then EGR cooler fractures pumping coolant

In that order from what I was told by the garage that did all of the repair-upgrade to my truck. He said for sure most of the head gasket work that he does has a froze up unison ring thats boosting around 20 lbs on the highway at cruise. Or somewhere in there.
Tuners a close second place.

As you can see two out of three come from not anything HP related. Lots of older guys pulling trailers had gasket issues from coolant issues as well as turbo problems. There are quite a few 6.0 trucks that had work done that were 100% stock too. So its a bit of a grab bag situation.

But running a tune on TTY bolts is a sure way of joining the stud club. Not being a wise guy just honest.
 
#32 ·
Yes sir I did/ I'd rather blow my truck up than buy a truck someone else blew up lol.
 
#34 ·
It’s cheaper BY FAR BUYING ONE already blown up. Wiser too.
 
#33 ·
FWIW, when I got my 2006 over two years ago it still had the original HPOP, STC fitting, dummy plugs, and pipe stands. I replaced everything before it had a chance to fail. Though I do like the leaf spring front end on the older ones, the coils do drive, turn, and ride better. No tire rub at full lock with 35's either.
 
#35 ·
That’s pretty wild. Yea I still see guys doing them today. Some go right away like my first 2006 others 10 years later. Lol.
Good thing is it’s a one time fix.
 
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