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CharlieC 01-11-2010 02:40 PM

SVO Conversion: 1 Year update
 
I posted this a little while back over at the infopop forum, but it doesn't seem like many folks read that. Thought this might be useful. I'd also love to hear any thoughts on the questions in here. Thanks!

Hi folks,

Well, I have hit one year and nearly 30k SVO miles on my '96 7.3 Powerstroke conversion and I thought it was time for an update. I've learned SO MUCH in the past year!

Last October, I purchased a '96 F-250 7.3 with two stock fuel tanks. The truck had 160,000 miles on it. The truck was a steal...and then wasn't. Within a few weeks the transmission and mechanical fuel pump went out. Doh! That E-40D is EXPENSIVE to have rebuilt and I kick myself for not sticking to my own rule of insisting on a manual transmission vehicle. Live and learn.

For my kit, I purchased a Goldenfuel kit with their 60 gallon Trekker tank. That kit included the 60 gallon tank (poly with an aluminum heat exchanger in it), racor 1000 heated filter, hot fox pickup for the stock tank conversion, 3b hose (their name for hose on hose wrapped in sheath--great stuff), accessory fuel pump for the veg side, 6 way pollack valve, wiring, vacuum gauge, fuel gauge for the 60 gallon tank, and instructions.

To that kit, I added a second Racor filter, veg-therm mega, and a temp gauge for the oil.

I installed the kit with a friend who had done several conversions and is a mechanical whiz. There is no way I could have done this myself and would not recommend undertaking a project like this without significant mechanical know-how. However, over the 3 days that we spent installing the kit, I got a crash course in diesel mechanics. With a lot of flailing, and tons of help, I have been able to successfully troubleshoot and maintain the system.

Notes on installation:
Everything was actually pretty straightforward (as long as you know what you are doing and what is what under the hood) except for retrofitting the stock tank. It is a HUGE PAIN to drop that tank, install the hotfox, and get the tank reinstalled. This was by far the most time consuming part of the process.

Charlie at Goldenfuels was helpful both during the installation process and in helping me through the various problems that came up during the months afterward.

What did not work:
The little accessory pump that I got crapped out in less than six months and only came with a 90 day wararnty from Goldenfuel. They suggested a raptor pump. It was quite expensive, but I have had zero problems since then.

For the second Racor 1000 (I'll explain below), I bought it separately. Turns out the thermostats that Racor installs are setup for an anti-gel function, and turn the heater off at a low temp (I don't know exactly what). Goldenfuel was great and installed their thermostats on the heater for me. This was a very nice gesture. Racor, however, claims that putting in these thermostats set to 160 will quickly burn up their heaters. After a year, both are still running fine, but I don't have a sense of how much I am overworking the heater.

My alternator is MAXED out. I have two Racor 1000's, a Raptor pump, and a veg therm. My alternator can not quite keep up and I'm not sure what to do about that. I may be able to install the "ambulance version" alternator, which is a bit stronger. I have not fully researched this so I'm not sure if I can just drop it in. I have also considered adding a solar panel to provide a top off charge while the truck is parked. Does anyone have thoughts on this?

Purge time is a bit long (about 5 minutes). This is not a big deal, but I would like to be able to use less diesel to purge.

What does work
The conversion! It works great! While many people panned the Pollack valve and Goldenfuel switched away from it shortly after selling me the kit (damn), I have had no problems there.

I have a three tank setup and I love it. The trekker tank in the bed holds "dirty" oil. Sometimes this is straight from the dumpster. Usually, it comes out of a 300 gallon holding tank in my garage. My trash pump filters to about 130 microns and then I let it settle, often for 4-6 weeks in that holding tank. Fuel is routed from the trekker tank, through a Racor (10 micron filter), through a pump (tuthill 10 gpm) and into the "clean" oil underbelly tank. I control that pump through a switch on the dash. This setup is worth every bit of effort and expense. It is a HUGE advantage to be able to filter oil on board. Also, when the oil goes from the clean tank and through the 2nd racor (2 micron) it is already very clean. That means that that 2 micron Racor filter lasts about 10,000 miles or more. I just change that filter every other oil change and I never run into the problem of a clogged filter while driving.
** I don't fully understand how this works, but apparently I have created a gravity feed from the dirty tank to the clean tank. After I fill the dirty tank, I run the pump for a couple minutes, then oil feeds through the filter and into the clean tank on its own. This means that my clean tank is always topped off for me. Anyone understand why / how this works?

Oil temp does not seem to be an issue. I was very worried about that going in, and during the winter, my oil is barely above 100 degrees as it hits the stock filter (where my temp gauge is). Charlie at Goldenfuel teased me for installing a veg therm and insists that it is impossible to inject cold oil into a powerstroke. I believe him, and I imagine the vegtherm is unnecessary.

Cross contamination is not an issue. The truck spits some veg back to the diesel tank every time I purge (because of the 6 way valve, the systems are not isolated from each other). I have never noticed problem with starting up on diesel that could be attributed to veg contamination / gelling.


Oil Gathering
I went through a couple $100 Tuthill pumps before I realized I needed to drop some coin and get a real pump. I bought a Redline MP2000RSG Heavy Duty 12 volt DC Waste Oil Transfer/Filtration System. It set me back nearly a grand (ouch) and is so worth it. The pump will suck nasty, cold oil (only have to filter to 1000 micron on the vacuum side) for hours on end (continuous duty motor). Also, the various parts of this pump are all replaceable. I can replace the motor, the pump, or the gearing if one of them blows out. The pump also came with two washable basket strainers. These things are great and I bought a series of strainers ranging from 600 micron to 130 micron. That way, I can adjust how fine I filter the oil based on temperature, my mood, and the alignment of the stars.

I also got two 300 gallon totes from the local petroleum distributor. They give away the ones that have damaged cages, lids, etc. These things are also priceless. I keep one in my garage to store oil for filling up the truck. When I go collecting, I put the other in my truck. Once every 6-8 weeks, I make my rounds and collect 300 gallons of oil. Back at home, I run it through the strainers (130 micron), and then it settles in the garage tank. Any water settles to the bottom, most solids settle to the bottom. I generally run about 300 gallons through my dirty tank and filter between filter changes. At some point, this will be a huge pain to clean.

**For anyone considering getting into this, I HIGHLY RECOMMEND getting a high quality / high capacity pump and storage setup. This has vastly increased my SVO quality of life and greatly decreased the amount of time that I have to invest in oil gathering and filtering.

Upgrade plans
The stock filter is a point of restriction. My truck has an Edge Evolution power programmer (I keep it on "tow" setting, which is the most mild of the power settings. I like the extra power because it keeps the truck from prematurely down shifting on a steep grade. However, sometimes I don't think I get quite enough fuel through the filter. I can hear the mechanical lift pump start whirring away (makes a clicking noise), I lose a bit of power, and if I don't back off I can wind up starving the engine. I'm not sure how to go about this. My mechanic tells me I need to run fuel through that stock filter bowl because it contains monitoring equipment such as fuel pressure and temp gauges. Also, the filter bowl outlet and subsequent inlet for the stock lift pump are ridiculously close together. I don't think it's possible to splice in to bypass the filter bowl for veg.

My idea (actually my mechanic's): Take the filter out of the stock filter bowl and just run fuel through there. Install another filter housing / filter in the diesel line. That way, it only filters diesel and it eliminates the veg restriction. That leaves a quart of fuel still in the filter bowl that has to be washed through during purge, but oh well.

Anyone have other ideas about how to tackle this problem?

Final thoughts
I am more than pleased with this project! I invested a bunch of money into the conversion (about $4500), but have already recouped that cost in fuel savings. Also, money is not the big issue for me. It is hugely important to me to reduce my environmental impact, avoid giving money to oil companies, and to recycle a waste product. With my work, I have to drive a 4x4 pickup and I have to drive a lot of miles. This allows me to do so with much less impact.

If you are considering taking on an SVO project, please consider that in order to make it sustainable in the long run, you will likely need to make a significant investment in terms of time, money, and personal commitment.

I would absolutely do this again, and would not hesitate to buy the same kit again.

I'm eager to hear any thoughts those more experienced than me have on my questions / problems and I'm happy to be a help to anyone thinking about getting into SVO.

Thanks!
-Charlie

hheynow 01-11-2010 03:33 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by CharlieC (Post 1635950)
My idea (actually my mechanic's): Take the filter out of the stock filter bowl and just run fuel through there. Install another filter housing / filter in the diesel line. That way, it only filters diesel and it eliminates the veg restriction. That leaves a quart of fuel still in the filter bowl that has to be washed through during purge, but oh well.

Anyone have other ideas about how to tackle this problem?

Plantdrive solved this problem by having an aluminum billet milled to the stock fuel filter size. It fits on the standpipe in the fuel bowl and its function is to cut down the purge time considerably because it displaces 95% of the fuel bowl's volume. With it installed you need to install two separate fuel filters, one for diesel and one for VO which is heated. Having separate filters is optimal because if while driving your VO filter gets clogged just flip to diesel until you can change the VO filter. Sure beats trying to change a VO filter at night in a rain storm by the side of a dark road.

FYI, I use the stock fuel pump for both fuels but obviously they have separate filters so the fuel bowl does see both fuels but with the aluminum billet my purge times are down to a mile or two down from about 5-7 miles.

CharlieC 01-11-2010 03:36 PM

Wow, very cool. What do you then run for a filter on the diesel side? I'll check with plant drive to see if they still have that aluminum insert. Thanks!

hheynow 01-12-2010 06:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CharlieC (Post 1636122)
What do you then run for a filter on the diesel side?

Top photo is an internet photo of what's on my diesel side. It's a Racor 445 housing with a R90T 10 micron filter installed under the bed and above the rear axle near the rear tank. VO filter is a Vormax, but contrary to bottom photo I use the R90T there too.

http://www.eastfilters.com/thumbnail...0R(R90T)-2.jpg

http://www.fryer-to-fuel.com/store/media/vmax.jpg

ridiculously_necessary 01-12-2010 07:14 AM

that aluminum insert can break the FBH (Fuel Bowl Heater) and cause it to short out and blow the #22 fuse. but yes it does do what it says.

good to see you back Charlie! glad to hear you have 30k under the hood.

my current system mixes fuels in the bowl as well. ive found recently this is not good. you can get by quite a while doign it though. i am upgrading my kit with the DIY i drew up in the sticky. it will eliminate the bowl and run parallel systems. it also eliminiates the weak stock mechanical pump. 100 degree wvo is not easy on the pump, while it may be impossbile to put cold VO into a psd, you can put cold vo into the bowl, pump and lines.

you say your running a gravity settling system? is it by chance elevated? if so you might look at running a centrifuge. that will help keep the dirty tank cleaner. and you may never need to change to racors again! are you pumping from dumpsters or yuor own barrells? does water get into your barrells if you use them?

i love running wvo too, i highly recommend it to people who will see the benifit.

an update on us, some of us have our flush times down to 10 to 20 seconds, and purge times to 30 seconds.

just a friendly heads up, your probably going to get some criticism on your setup.

i would like hear more about your collection methods, where you splice into the fuel line. also, where you from? im about 3 hours from Charlie at GFS, since you have worked with him i wonder if your nearby.

hheynow 01-12-2010 11:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ridiculously_necessary (Post 1637752)
that aluminum insert can break the FBH (Fuel Bowl Heater) and cause it to short out and blow the #22 fuse. but yes it does do what it says.

Yup, it broke the fuel bowl heater welds off :icon_ford: so I just unplugged and removed it. Works just fine w/o it. Never had that famous #22 blown fuse though. That fuel bowl heater is not needed as all it really does is prevent the fuel in the bowl from staying gelled for start-up during cold spells but with good glow plugs starting it is not an issue. Heck, my diesel fuel filter is mounted under the bed and has no 12v heat source so it's a mute point for me but if I lived in a colder climate I'd put a 12v pad heater around the fuel filter in a New York minute.

ridiculously_necessary 01-12-2010 11:48 AM

i dont think vegginpsd (in Wisconsin) has one either.

CharlieC 01-14-2010 05:57 AM

Huh, interesting. Thanks a lot for the photos and thoughts. Right now, I give myself about 5 miles to purge, 3 on a grade at highway speeds, and then two through the neighborhood. I'd love to get that down.

So, while the aluminum insert may bust the heater, it has left the fuel bowl intact for you guys? It seems like a more straightforward way for me to lower purge times than to pull the fuel bowl.

My impression was the fuel bowl also had several sensors in it, including fuel pressure, that the truck computer relied on. Is that not the case? Does pulling the fuel bowl present any of those issues? Seems like without the bowl, I could get a lot closer to those 30 second purge times you all are talking about.

Ridiculous, let me answer your questions.
I'm in St. George, UT. It's the SW corner of the state, right next to Zion Natl Park and about two hours north of Vegas. Great oil collection climate because it rarely freezes. In the summer, with temps around 100, my oil settles out to close to 5 microns.

For collection, I get cubies from some folks, and mostly pump out of dumpsters (yes, with permission). Water in the dumpsters is not a huge issue, since I live in a desert, but I'm careful about it. It does happen occassionally. I just use a 600 micron screen on my pickup stick on the way into my collection tank, then I run it through a couple of strainers to get it down to 130 microns on the way into my garage storage tank. From there, I just let it settle and then tank oil off the top when I need it. It then goes into the dirty tank on the truck, through a racor 1000 with a 30 micron filter, and into the underbelly tank. In the summer, I'll run a couple hundred gallons through that first racor on a single filter. In the winter, it's more like 80 - 100. Then, the 2nd racor, with a 2 micron filter generally lasts 3 - 5 k miles.

As far as where I splice into the fuel line, I left the d2 line intact all the way up to where the stock switching valve was on the frame rail, under the driver's seat. Now, I mounted the 6 way valve in the engine compartment, so the common line is pretty short.

I appreciate the discussion!

hheynow 01-14-2010 07:46 AM

The sensors on the fuel bowl are: water in fuel, fuel restriction and fuel bowl heater. If you removed all three and plugged the holes you would still run fine. You would just not see the dash lights come on for water in fuel or fuel restriction when they should be lit. Eliminating the fuel bowl heater means nothing because you re-install that flat plate minus the heater wire so the spacing when you re-thread the standpipe is still snug. REMEMBER THE STANDPIPE HAS REVERSE THREADS AND IS PLASTIC! A 7/8" crow foot wrench works best. The fuel pressure is regulated by the FPR (the housing screwed to and connected to the fuel bowl). Mine is intact. Don't screw with the FPR it's pre-set. There is a mod called "shimming the FPR" where you unscrew the brass plug and insert a bb to raise the fuel pressure if you so desire but mine is stock.

ridiculously_necessary 01-15-2010 06:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CharlieC (Post 1642582)
...As far as where I splice into the fuel line, I left the d2 line intact all the way up to where the stock switching valve was on the frame rail, under the driver's seat. Now, I mounted the 6 way valve in the engine compartment, so the common line is pretty short.

I appreciate the discussion!

thats the same as my truck. my floater in the tank, and possibly the entire pickup is screwed up. presumably with poly. but i could be wrong. my pollack valve i believe is also messed up. i mention that incase your pollak goes as well, dont replace it with a stock unit, get a better one from GC or someplace. when i replace mine i wont be using it for veg anymore.

the aluminum block should help cut down quite a bit. you have plenty of veg sources where you are?

vegginpsd 01-15-2010 08:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ridiculously_necessary (Post 1638273)
i dont think vegginpsd (in Wisconsin) has one either.


I do have a fuel bowl heater.......its sitting on a parts shelf in a ziplock bag still in the fuel bowl!

No bowl, no heater, no leaks, no blown #22 fuse and no problems. Done deal.:thumb:

hheynow 01-16-2010 01:54 PM

However the three of us have the OBS fuel system and yours is a '99.

vegginpsd 01-16-2010 02:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hheynow (Post 1647039)
However the three of us have the OBS fuel system and yours is a '99.

Sorry didnt take that into consideration.
I was just replying to matts post.

On the Obs I would ditch the pump and convert to electric if I was given the chance. Bowl delete also. Simple neat and proven. Jmho

CharlieC 01-17-2010 02:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ridiculously_necessary (Post 1646031)
thats the same as my truck. my floater in the tank, and possibly the entire pickup is screwed up. presumably with poly. but i could be wrong. my pollack valve i believe is also messed up. i mention that incase your pollak goes as well, dont replace it with a stock unit, get a better one from GC or someplace. when i replace mine i wont be using it for veg anymore.

Interesting, the floater is working fine in my veg tank, but doesn't in the D2 tank. It just reads totally full until it has about 1/4 tank left, then the gauge starts dancing around. Annoying, but not a big enough problem to pull that tank down. Yikes.

The Goldenfuel kit came with a new 6 way valve, so that's what I mounted in the engine compartment.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ridiculously_necessary (Post 1646031)
the aluminum block should help cut down quite a bit. you have plenty of veg sources where you are?

No problem with veg sources! Thanks to insatiable fast food appetites and not too many people vying for oil around here, there is more oil than I could possibly use. Now that's a good problem to have. Plus, daytime highs, even in the winter, are often up around 60, so I can pump even PHO all year long.

hheynow 01-18-2010 06:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CharlieC (Post 1649033)
Interesting, the floater is working fine in my veg tank, but doesn't in the D2 tank. It just reads totally full until it has about 1/4 tank left, then the gauge starts dancing around. Annoying, but not a big enough problem to pull that tank down. Yikes.

Same here on the D2 tank sender. It's a very common problem.

ridiculously_necessary 01-19-2010 05:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hheynow (Post 1650257)
Same here on the D2 tank sender. It's a very common problem.

oddly enough my D2 sender is fine... :tard:

i dont know what im going to do with my wvo tank after i upgrade. i may try the 3 tank system Mike suggested. the purpose would be negated but i guess no reason not to do it...

CharlieC 02-01-2010 10:06 AM

Thanks for all your thoughts guys. And many thanks to hheynow and ridiculously_necessary for the PM conversations. Very helpful.

I have decided to get there in and play with my system some, so I have some questions to bounce off of everyone.

I am going to add a heat exchanger. FPHE is the standard, but I've also seen the Arctic Fox linehauler mentioned a few times. Does anyone have experience with these? Also, can I mount a linehauler or FPHE to my firewall in the engine compartment? I would much prefer to mount there rather than on the framewall for better efficiency.

Ideally, I would like to do a bowl delete and upgrade to an electric fuel system. I will keep my 6 way valve and will just need to modify the system forward of that.

Has anyone posted a thread on the 94-97 bowl delete? I'm not clear how I would go about tapping into the stock metal fuel lines. Is there a kit out there for this?

I currently own a Pureflow raptor. It is a 100gph pump adjustable 0 - 60 psi. I currently use it as a boost for the mechanical pump. Is this powerful enough to be the electric fuel pump for my system? I think stock pressure is around 50, and I see many people talking about low 60's. Seems like if I ran this pump wide open, it would be enough. Thoughts?

If not, I was thinking that I would use a single electric pump (yeah, I know I don't get two separate systems then), probably the FASS 23 A version. I noticed with ITP's 99+ bowl delete kit, it mounts on the back of the HP oil resevoir. They offer a mounting bracket for an FPR. Is that solid enough that I could mount the FASS up there if I fabricated a mounting bracket?

Also, on DFA's manual, they take out the mechanical pump and put a plug in. Any reason why I can't just leave the mechanical pump in place and not use it?

Thanks a ton for your help! You guys have been very helpful.

ridiculously_necessary 02-01-2010 12:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CharlieC (Post 1683068)
Thanks for all your thoughts guys. And many thanks to hheynow and ridiculously_necessary for the PM conversations. Very helpful.

I have decided to get there in and play with my system some, so I have some questions to bounce off of everyone.

I am going to add a heat exchanger. FPHE is the standard, but I've also seen the Arctic Fox linehauler mentioned a few times. Does anyone have experience with these? Also, can I mount a linehauler or FPHE to my firewall in the engine compartment? I would much prefer to mount there rather than on the framewall for better efficiency.

Ideally, I would like to do a bowl delete and upgrade to an electric fuel system. I will keep my 6 way valve and will just need to modify the system forward of that.

Has anyone posted a thread on the 94-97 bowl delete? I'm not clear how I would go about tapping into the stock metal fuel lines. Is there a kit out there for this? Not that i am aware of, but vegginpsd knows the size of the fittings on the back of the head...

I currently own a Pureflow raptor. It is a 100gph pump adjustable 0 - 60 psi. I currently use it as a boost for the mechanical pump. Is this powerful enough to be the electric fuel pump for my system? I think stock pressure is around 50, and I see many people talking about low 60's. Seems like if I ran this pump wide open, it would be enough. Thoughts?

If not, I was thinking that I would use a single electric pump (yeah, I know I don't get two separate systems then), probably the FASS 23 A version. I noticed with ITP's 99+ bowl delete kit, it mounts on the back of the HP oil resevoir. They offer a mounting bracket for an FPR. Is that solid enough that I could mount the FASS up there if I fabricated a mounting bracket?

Also, on DFA's manual, they take out the mechanical pump and put a plug in. Any reason why I can't just leave the mechanical pump in place and not use it? good question, i would imagine so if you take the acuator rod out. but you can get a 7/8" freeze plug cheap. or maybe you can just dosconnect all lines to and from the pump...??

Thanks a ton for your help! You guys have been very helpful.

my thoughts in blue, the rest ill let others chime in on. i will however throw in my two cents on the pump, you might be able to keep the raptor for veg, and just get an MSD2225 for about $100 for the D2 side. sorry if thats a repeat, i cannot recall everything we have discussed.

vegginpsd 02-01-2010 12:37 PM

1/8 NPT:nod:

CharlieC 02-01-2010 01:26 PM

Do you think it would work to leave the stock lines installed at the heads and to connect my lines to the stock lines?

The part of this that seems beyond my ability is bending new lines. Is there a fitting I could solder onto the cut stock line or even a push on fitting that I could then connect to the 3/8" common fuel line?

Thanks

EDIT: Ask and the universe gives. A friend just shared this link with me: http://97stroker.webs.com/electricfuelinstall.htm

tubular031 02-01-2010 01:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CharlieC (Post 1683068)
I am going to add a heat exchanger. FPHE is the standard, but I've also seen the Arctic Fox linehauler mentioned a few times. Does anyone have experience with these? Also, can I mount a linehauler or FPHE to my firewall in the engine compartment? I would much prefer to mount there rather than on the framewall for better efficiency.

I dont think Bruce is on this forum. Get on frybrid or wvodesigns and look up a guy named brucem. he is using a linehauler in his conversion. Or at least he was. Smart dude and will give you tons of info about that.

vegginpsd 02-01-2010 01:46 PM

Im lost.

Why tap into the stock fuel lines when you have two perfectly good points of entry unused? Is it because of the stock fuel pump? Sounds like way too much work.

Get rid of the stock pump entirely. Use a SD pump for D2. Use the raptor for VO.
Check valves in line on each side. Done.:nod:

CharlieC 02-01-2010 01:51 PM

Sorry, I must not be communicating clearly. I would like to use the stock lines from the heads back to where they connect to the stock pump because of the difficulty in fabricating new lines.

Yes, I want to ditch the mechanical pump and stock fuel bowl completely.

Just trying to figure out how to go from one 3/8" rubber fuel line to the two metal lines that feed the heads.

vegginpsd 02-01-2010 02:09 PM

If the OBS fuel lines are the same thread as a SD, I can look and check for you. If so use the hard lines for D2.

The whole OBS fuel pump/bowl/filter is just goofy. Get rid of it all Put in a SD bowl, stock regulator and pump. Use the factory steel lines to the heads. Use factory hard line for D2 return and plumb with hose to the SD regulator on the SD fuel bowl.

Create a seperate fuel circuit for VO. Use the Raptor pump and regulator for VO. Enter the fuel into the heads in the service ports. Purge time ZERO.

It really would not be that difficult in the OBS. There is PLENTY of room do whatever you need to do in there. I like the space in the OBS.

Just my :twocents:

CharlieC 02-01-2010 03:39 PM

Ahhhh.. vegginpsd, you just had to open a whole new can of worms, eh? :)

Well, since you did, I'll start barraging you with questions. Your idea is, of course, brilliant. I checked out tubular's page with his install because I think that is what he did. I suppose it's a bit different on my OBS than his '01, but I get the picture.

So, I currently use a 6 way switching valve. In the setup you suggest, that would go. I get the check valves part, but how would I manage the return? What I do right now is loop the return on veg and send it back to the d2 tank on d2. Return to veg isn't an option for me (welded that shut on the underbelly tank). I assume the engine just has one return outlet (not a second "service" one to tap into)?

So, would I need to take out the 6 way and put in different solenoids that loop the return while on veg and send it back to the tank on d2?

Thanks for the pump suggestion. A thought: fi the pump is $115.00 or so and a regulator is 100 -150, why not just buy another raptor or a fass with a built in regulator? Seems like about the same about of $$ for a better pump.

Man, it's remarkable how quickly these projects expand. :tard:

vegginpsd 02-01-2010 04:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CharlieC (Post 1683711)
Ahhhh.. vegginpsd, you just had to open a whole new can of worms, eh? :)

Well, since you did, I'll start barraging you with questions. Your idea is, of course, brilliant. I checked out tubular's page with his install because I think that is what he did. I suppose it's a bit different on my OBS than his '01, but I get the picture.

So, I currently use a 6 way switching valve. In the setup you suggest, that would go. I get the check valves part, but how would I manage the return? What I do right now is loop the return on veg and send it back to the d2 tank on d2. Return to veg isn't an option for me (welded that shut on the underbelly tank). I assume the engine just has one return outlet (not a second "service" one to tap into)?Get rid of the valves. The raptor has a built in regulator. Set it to 65. The SD fuel bowl has its regulator built in. Return the D2 if needed to the fuel line PRE_PUMP.

So, would I need to take out the 6 way and put in different solenoids that loop the return while on veg and send it back to the tank on d2? No valves needed. Fuel sustem dead headed in heads.

Thanks for the pump suggestion. A thought: fi the pump is $115.00 or so and a regulator is 100 -150, why not just buy another raptor or a fass with a built in regulator? Seems like about the same about of $$ for a better pump. THe raptor has a regulator.

Man, it's remarkable how quickly these projects expand. :tard:

Actually I am greatly more simple.

ridiculously_necessary 02-02-2010 01:31 PM

if i am understanding you correctly (Charlie)...

you dont need to worry about a return. the D2 will feed into teh abck of the heads, and the vo will feed into the front via the service ports. (jsut anohter fuel port currently blocked). no returns at all. thats what Mike is getting at i believe. this is referred to as a dead headed system. stock our OBS's have a return, after this they wont. keep your 6 port and just block off the return port.

does that clear anything up or am i misunderstanding what your saying?

BruceM 02-04-2010 06:37 PM

if you end up making some changes to your setup and go to check valve based switching a Raptor will prolly not keep up with the truck's demand for fuel when you put the pedal down, well on VO anyway.

I found this out too late after I bought a Raptor 150 and had it sitting around my house for 8 months before actually getting around to using it. Lesson learned, cause it barley made 35psi on 70F VO with a ball valve simulating 20GPH of flow. Even with the valve closed it wouldn't make more than 40PSI. Hence why I have one for sale in the part section here.

Check valves are easy to setup and do, and it would eliminate your 6-way valve, running VO in your stock filter bowl, prolly a ton of hoses, and would give you purge times of around 10-12 seconds to flush out the heads.

CharlieC 02-05-2010 05:46 AM

Thanks for the feedback, Bruce. I think what I'm going to do is run the raptor on the diesel side and get a FASS 23A to run on the veggie side. I'm not totally sure if my Raptor is the same one's sold other places. I have the one offered by Goldenfuel (0-60 psi), which Pureflow claims is designed around veg oil. Either way, I figure I need something rated for at least 75 in order to get it to actually deliver 65ish on veg.

This way, I only have to buy one more pump and I don't have to include an FPR, which will keep costs down a bit (though this is getting expensive quickly).

ridiculously_necessary 02-05-2010 06:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CharlieC (Post 1692609)
...

This way, I only have to buy one more pump and I don't have to include an FPR, which will keep costs down a bit (though this is getting expensive quickly).

i found that out as well. when i found that i needed a FASS it doubeled the cost of my DIY. but at least i can take comfort in that.

you can probably sell your mech pump for a few bucks used, as well as your bowl. iirc, they go for over $200 new. the FPR alone on the thing is over $100 i believe.

BruceM 02-05-2010 07:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CharlieC (Post 1692609)
Thanks for the feedback, Bruce. I think what I'm going to do is run the raptor on the diesel side and get a FASS 23A to run on the veggie side. I'm not totally sure if my Raptor is the same one's sold other places. I have the one offered by Goldenfuel (0-60 psi), which Pureflow claims is designed around veg oil. Either way, I figure I need something rated for at least 75 in order to get it to actually deliver 65ish on veg.

This way, I only have to buy one more pump and I don't have to include an FPR, which will keep costs down a bit (though this is getting expensive quickly).

PureFlow people are asses. I bought my Raptor 150 directly from them, after numerous disscusions with thier tech people about using it for WVO. I was assured that it would work and give me the pressures I was looking for (60-70psi). Yeah I don't even get close to that. I heard from reliable sources that the Raptor 100 will make about 50PSI, but the 7.3L's fuel demands at full application of the go pedal can suck it down to about 25psi. My invoice even says its going to be used for WVO on a Powerstroke, damn them!

Either Raptor should be fine on the diesel side, plenty good enough to eliminate the mechanical lift pump if you have one on your older powerstroke. I wish my Raptor would sell so I can put that money towards something worthwhile like an Adrenaline HPOP :-)

You can use a fixed PSI FASS pump for your vege side. I'm using a fixed PSI one. They are internally regulated so to not make more than their rated pressure, even on WVO. Just gonna make sure you get one that is setup around WVO. They have 2 different electric motor sizes, I think the latter being EM-1002 or something like that. That is the one that has the power to move even cold VO. You can see the bracket and my fas mounting here Forums - View Single Post - Couple ?'s in a DIY system, brass, and other little things. Please DIY's chime in I'm mighty proud of that fass bracket I made since their bracket is kinda odd.

CharlieC 02-05-2010 07:51 AM

That's a bummer about the raptor. There's been a lot of excitement about them because they offer a lifetime warranty running the raptor on SVO. Of course, if it's not holding rated pressures, then there's no warranty issue because it will be on the shelf. Mine has been great as a booster pump, but it's also overkill to be using a $400 pump as an aid to the mechanical pump. I'll be sucking it up for the FASS.

BruceM 02-05-2010 08:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CharlieC (Post 1692893)
That's a bummer about the raptor. There's been a lot of excitement about them because they offer a lifetime warranty running the raptor on SVO. Of course, if it's not holding rated pressures, then there's no warranty issue because it will be on the shelf. Mine has been great as a booster pump, but it's also overkill to be using a $400 pump as an aid to the mechanical pump. I'll be sucking it up for the FASS.

check with Roverhybrids.com they had the best pricing on a FASS that I could find. Also if you need a wiring harness for the Fass I have one that I bought for my Raptor. They use the same connector. I spent $30 to get it and am looking to get some of my money back out of it, if i can't sell it with the unused Raptor.

vegginpsd 02-05-2010 08:47 AM


tubular031 02-05-2010 08:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BruceM (Post 1692933)
Also if you need a wiring harness for the Fass

Why? I just cut the connector off and crimped it to my 10 gauge wire I am feeding it with from the relay.

vegginpsd 02-05-2010 08:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tubular031 (Post 1692997)
Why? I just cut the connector off and crimped it to my 10 gauge wire I am feeding it with from the relay.


:thumb:

Same thing I did. The large wire is the secret to success. Be sure your inline fuse holder is up to the task also!

tubular031 02-05-2010 09:05 AM

Yea I learned about the fuse holders already! I need to get something better someday. those little things at autozone stink!

vegginpsd 02-05-2010 09:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tubular031 (Post 1693012)
Yea I learned about the fuse holders already! I need to get something better someday. those little things at autozone stink!


I wonder if 10AWG wire with crimped and soldered joints with a circuit breaker isn't the answer.:dunno:

ridiculously_necessary 02-05-2010 11:09 AM

Mike, it was $289, looks like the price went up! crap.

BruceM 02-05-2010 11:31 AM

roveryhybrids has the pump, brackets, and Fass supplied wiring harness with inline fuse for $457 vs USDP's $474, though the bare pump price is the same. Prolly would come down to stock and shipping costs.

My Fass is wired straight to the pass side battery. A relay there controls its on/off state as my setup is 100% manual. I have a few Altronix 6062 timer cards I picked up, and I'm planning to build a Vegistrokish automatic purge/run timer card setup, but I'll still prolly end up having the Fass run thru a fuse and relay and then the other fuse (from Fass) down near the pump. I have been giving some thought to getting some 12 or 10ga wire to build a beefier harness. I'm at about 11 feet of wire so that is between 14 and 12 ga for 30 amps, even though the pump draws alot less than that.


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