2002 Crank-no start after timing timing cover reseal and new oil pan - Ford Powerstroke Diesel Forum
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 15 Old 11-22-2019, 04:57 AM Thread Starter
Powerstroke.org Rookie
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 20
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
2002 Crank-no start after timing timing cover reseal and new oil pan

So this saga started last Sunday, with the help of my neighbor who is a mechanic, when we replaced the oil pan and resealed the timing cover because both were showing oil leaks. The truck ran fine before the tear down for 230,xxx miles. The pan was probably not the culprit as much as the timing cover was, but since it had plenty of heavy rust I decided to replace it anyways. Before everyone jumps on me for not pulling the motor to do the pan, I used the moroso gasket with Ford RTV in the corners as per the install directions and I’m confident that these are not causing my issues below.

I got everything put back together on Tuesday after work and in my hastiness I did not put the gerotor for the LPOP back in the correct orientation so as of last night I now have the Melling LPOP.

Got everything put back together again and filled the HPOP reservoir and got her to crank and she started and stalled after about 5 seconds. Repeated the cycle same thing. Note that the Reservoir did not fill after cranking the engine again. I did replace the ICP with an updated style with the larger inch and 1-1/16” base Because I noticed the connection was oily on the top of the sensor and I figured might as well rule that out with a new sensor.

Given that the truck has over 230,000 miles on it, most of the wiring harness in the center of the valley seems to have brittle wires. One thing I did notice is that the one of wires on IPR connector stripped back and showing the bare wire leading me to believe that this wire is broken. I’m waiting on Amazon to deliver a new connector pigtail because at this point that is the only thing that I can think would be the issue. The tinnerman nut is tight as well and I took the solenoid off the and cleaned it with contact cleaner and made sure that there was no gunk on the IPR stem itself.

I know have fuel because the fuel pump is running on the rail every time that I go to crank the motor.

I’ve read similar posts where are the IPR Could be stuck open and allowing the reservoir to drain out and not refill when cranking.

I pulled the HPOP Wednesday night and checked everything and everything is sealed up with no issues or signs of oil leaking. Reinstalled it with the drive gear firmly seated to the H pop and torqued to the spec 95 foot pounds as well as the mounting bolts for the H pop to the reservoir at 18 foot pounds. High pressure lines show no signs of leaking nor does the non-serviceable plug on the bottom.

I know this is quite the story to lead off, but I wanted to make sure that I provide as much information on my situation as possible to help with informed responses. Greatly appreciate everybody’s advice and help in advance.

EDIT- the oil cooler was also removed and refurbed with new gaskets and seals.

Last edited by snyda88; 11-22-2019 at 08:57 AM.
snyda88 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 15 Old 11-22-2019, 09:27 AM
Compression Ignition Addict
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 8,110
Thanks: 9
Thanked 429 Times in 416 Posts
Mentioned: 39 Post(s)
Quoted: 461 Post(s)
Feedback Score: 3 reviews
I would next put a gauge to measure EOP (produced by your new LPOP) to confirm you have engine oil pressure. If there's no delivery to the HPOP it would act much as you describe I think...
NoRalPh is offline  
post #3 of 15 Old 11-23-2019, 05:05 AM
Compression Ignition Addict
 
greenskeeper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,589
Thanks: 0
Thanked 82 Times in 81 Posts
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Quoted: 296 Post(s)
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
IPR full cycle won't prevent the HPOP from refiling.

Are you sure the pickup tube is still attached and in the correct orientation when you put the pan back on? Anything left in the pan that could block the pickup tube?

LPOP oriented the correct way?

Gunga galunga...gunga -- gunga galunga.

97 F-250 CC 4x4 7.3L PSD E4OD 203K all original
99 F-250 CC 4x4 7.3L PSD ZF6 253K all original
greenskeeper is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #4 of 15 Old 11-23-2019, 09:29 AM Thread Starter
Powerstroke.org Rookie
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 20
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Quote:
Originally Posted by greenskeeper View Post
IPR full cycle won't prevent the HPOP from refiling.

Are you sure the pickup tube is still attached and in the correct orientation when you put the pan back on? Anything left in the pan that could block the pickup tube?

LPOP oriented the correct way?
I picked up an oil pressure gauge for HF this morning and put it on the port on the oil filter housing. Cranked and got nothing. So decided to check the LPOP again. When I pulled off the melling pump cover to inspect things I noticed that the seal was damaged from when I put the HMB back on using a dead and a block of wood. Done with that, waiting on a buddy to drop off longer m16200 bolts to pull it back on. Going to get things put back together and try to crank it again to see if this is the issue if not then it’s time to drop the pan and inspect the pick up tube flange and gasket. Fingers crossed it’s just the seal around the HMB.

I have not messed with swapping the IPR given that it worked fine previously.

Hell, the whole truck ran fine before I decided to undertake this project....
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	6617B991-D1AA-4922-9A34-00759A2CBB49_1574530145137.jpeg
Views:	9
Size:	332.7 KB
ID:	725443  
snyda88 is offline  
post #5 of 15 Old 11-24-2019, 06:13 AM
Compression Ignition Addict
 
greenskeeper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,589
Thanks: 0
Thanked 82 Times in 81 Posts
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Quoted: 296 Post(s)
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Quote:
Originally Posted by snyda88 View Post
I picked up an oil pressure gauge for HF this morning and put it on the port on the oil filter housing. Cranked and got nothing. So decided to check the LPOP again. When I pulled off the melling pump cover to inspect things I noticed that the seal was damaged from when I put the HMB back on using a dead and a block of wood. Done with that, waiting on a buddy to drop off longer m16200 bolts to pull it back on. Going to get things put back together and try to crank it again to see if this is the issue if not then itís time to drop the pan and inspect the pick up tube flange and gasket. Fingers crossed itís just the seal around the HMB.

I have not messed with swapping the IPR given that it worked fine previously.

Hell, the whole truck ran fine before I decided to undertake this project....
It's the installation of the LPOP. Don't throw parts at a perfectly running truck. The two variables as to why it's now not starting is the LPOP or the oil pickup tube when you did the pan (which is the least likely of the two). Good luck.

Gunga galunga...gunga -- gunga galunga.

97 F-250 CC 4x4 7.3L PSD E4OD 203K all original
99 F-250 CC 4x4 7.3L PSD ZF6 253K all original
greenskeeper is offline  
post #6 of 15 Old 11-24-2019, 07:03 AM Thread Starter
Powerstroke.org Rookie
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 20
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Quote:
Originally Posted by greenskeeper View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by snyda88 View Post
I picked up an oil pressure gauge for HF this morning and put it on the port on the oil filter housing. Cranked and got nothing. So decided to check the LPOP again. When I pulled off the melling pump cover to inspect things I noticed that the seal was damaged from when I put the HMB back on using a dead and a block of wood. Done with that, waiting on a buddy to drop off longerm16200 bolts to pull it back on. Going to get things put back together and try to crank it again to see if this is the issue if not then it’s time to drop the pan and inspect the pick up tube flange and gasket. Fingers crossed it’s just the seal around the HMB.

I have not messed with swapping the IPR given that it worked fine previously.

Hell, the whole truck ran fine before I decided to undertake this project....
It's the installation of the LPOP. Don't throw parts at a perfectly running truck. The two variables as to why it's now not starting is the LPOP or the oil pickup tube when you did the pan (which is the least likely of the two). Good luck.
I packed the LPOP with Vaseline this time around and she finally got a prime and came to life. EOP on the mechanical gauge on the filter housing read 9-10psi at that point. I did prime the HPOP reservoir too. Had the scanner on it and I was getting good injector pressure at idle. But my IPR duty cycle was high around 65% and up.

I took it for a road test and it seemed just fine. Came home and parked it in the driveway and went about cleaning things up. When I went to fire it back up after sitting for about 20-30 minutes I went to back up and the oil pressure dropped out and I had to prime the reservoir again. Move it shut it off and then started it again and it fired up again.

Went to start it this morning and the reservoir had drained down overnight. Primed the reservoir again and then started it and runs fine.

So I’m getting oil to the reservoir from the LPOP after I prime the reservoir but I don’t know how the reservoir is draining down over night.

Perhaps the bottom reservoir gasket didn’t seat right when I put the reservoir back on after resealing they timing cover???

I have a hard time believing it’s the low pressure oil system. But who knows.

Last edited by snyda88; 11-24-2019 at 07:06 AM.
snyda88 is offline  
post #7 of 15 Old 11-24-2019, 10:16 AM Thread Starter
Powerstroke.org Rookie
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 20
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
So I’ve pulled the reservoir and found that the oil has drained down to this port on the bottom of the reservoir/top of timing cover. Could the HPOP mounting gasket be to blame here? I’m at a loss of how it’s draining out.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	0B7671C4-035B-4E98-9452-D57EB966906C_1574618349518.jpeg
Views:	8
Size:	755.8 KB
ID:	725483  
snyda88 is offline  
post #8 of 15 Old 11-24-2019, 03:41 PM Thread Starter
Powerstroke.org Rookie
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 20
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Well, pulled the HPOP and checked the mating gasket, cleaned it and put it back together. Along with making sure the HPOP reservoir gasket properly seated and primed it and fired it up and let her run for about 20 minutes. Shut it off let it sit for 10 minutes and checked to find the reservoir was still sitting at the same level (3/4” below port). It’s now been over 2 hours since I started the truck and the reservoir is still right where it was after I shut the truck off. Fingers crossed it’s still there in the AM. I did have a long crank the last two times I started it but I attribute that to me pulling the HPOP off along with the oil lines and there being air in the system still.
snyda88 is offline  
post #9 of 15 Old 11-24-2019, 05:24 PM
Compression Ignition Addict
 
greenskeeper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,589
Thanks: 0
Thanked 82 Times in 81 Posts
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Quoted: 296 Post(s)
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
It can take a while to bleed the air from the HPO when opening things up

Gunga galunga...gunga -- gunga galunga.

97 F-250 CC 4x4 7.3L PSD E4OD 203K all original
99 F-250 CC 4x4 7.3L PSD ZF6 253K all original
greenskeeper is offline  
post #10 of 15 Old 11-24-2019, 05:32 PM
Premium Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Southern Indiana
Posts: 1,914
Thanks: 3
Thanked 181 Times in 177 Posts
Mentioned: 58 Post(s)
Quoted: 416 Post(s)
Garage
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Quote:
Originally Posted by snyda88 View Post
So Iíve pulled the reservoir and found that the oil has drained down to this port on the bottom of the reservoir/top of timing cover. Could the HPOP mounting gasket be to blame here? Iím at a loss of how itís draining out.
Yes. oil that low in the reservoir is the HPOP mounting gasket or shaft seal -- there is a stand pipe in the reservoir that keeps oil from draining back down the low pressure system

could also have a leaking injector -- easy way to test that , is remove the oil hoses and place the ends higher than the reservoir -- then fill the reservoir and check the next day -- if the reservoir is still full("3/4" down) -- then reconnect one hose and re-check, then the other hose

In my defense, I was unsupervised
.
2006 F250 Lariat FX4 cclb
Torque Pro and OBDLink MX bluetooth monitor
General note:
For all those wanting a premium silicone sealer Kubota 70000-73764 is the best your gonna find. This is a hybrid gray silicone that uses solvent rather than acid to start the curing reaction, this makes it safe for aluminum and and any surface that involves coolant.
Hydro is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Ford Powerstroke Diesel Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome