1999 7.3 Crank - No Start - Ford Powerstroke Diesel Forum
 
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post #1 of 8 Old 09-05-2019, 12:56 PM Thread Starter
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1999 7.3 Crank - No Start

Currently stuck in Rockford, Illinois - 500 miles from my usual service guy with Forscan.

Scenario:

Was running fine, then sudden loss of power, some bucking, then full power restored for another 3-4 miles - then back to no power but still running. Managed to limp it into a motel, but now it won't start at all.

Have checked fuses, replaced IPR and ICP, replaced CPS, verified fuel pressure is making it to bowl, verified some CPS signal making it to Tach during crank, verified Low Oil Pressure Sensor signalling (dash gauge comes to life during crank). During crank, some white smoke with some smell of unburnt fuel.

Also checked wiring harness around vulnerable locations, such as over Valve Cover, main PCM connections and such.

Desperately searching for someone in Rockford area that can hook up to verify that HPOP is building pressure and IPR/ICP/CPS are giving clear signal to start.

Thanks!

Last edited by thecarnie; 09-05-2019 at 02:22 PM. Reason: fix title
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post #2 of 8 Old 09-05-2019, 01:09 PM
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check the fuel bowl heater i.e. pull the connector off the back of the fuel bowl and replace the fuse anyways. Also did you check the wires for the ICP and IPR? most shops replace thw wire connectors with those sensors because they are so bad And did you replace with parts house brands or motorcraft?

You can also unplug the ICP and if it starts its a bad ICP (bad units out of the box happen)

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post #3 of 8 Old 09-05-2019, 02:28 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks for the quick answer-back!

Quote:
Originally Posted by JustinOOO9 View Post
check the fuel bowl heater i.e. pull the connector off the back of the fuel bowl and replace the fuse anyways. Also did you check the wires for the ICP and IPR? most shops replace thw wire connectors with those sensors because they are so bad And did you replace with parts house brands or motorcraft?

You can also unplug the ICP and if it starts its a bad ICP (bad units out of the box happen)
Fuel Bowl heater was previously disconnected as it has been bad for some time. Outer Fuse box when originally checked had one "bad" but not "blown" fuse -- has a hairline crack in it - but it wasn't "burnt".

ICP and IPR were both tested with "known goods" as well as actually replacing them out of desperation due to circumstances of being stuck broke down. ICP "unplugged" test still fails to start engine.

ICP/IPR harnesses are clean - as is CPS harness down. Much of this engine has been gone thru over the last two years and is generally well maintained - including a full set of injectors this last spring, HPOP and LPOP two years ago, new turbo two years ago, and other misc. stuff. It has a tendency to go through boost sensors for some reason though - but never had one create a no-start condition...

My main issue is I need to see the datastream and make sure the IPR and ICP are seeing proper pressures out of the HPOP and that the circuits are responding, etc. I'm just stuck away from a laptop and the adapter my guy has back home.

Have also checked for good fuel pressure at bowl - "loose cap during a key-off-key-on" cycling yields enough "spit and pressure spray" to be enough to "start" this thing... it's acting like either I had an injector get stuck somehow where it's not building oil pressure in the heads, or the PCM/IDM are not firing the injectors either due to a not-ready-to-start condition (IPR/ICP/CPS/whatever) and so on

Last edited by thecarnie; 09-05-2019 at 02:31 PM.
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post #4 of 8 Old 09-05-2019, 03:52 PM
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But, you have ForScan with you?

You should be able to read the ICP (HPOP) pressure with that.

Remember, the PCM needs to "see" these 3 important things to trigger he IDM to fire the engine;

1)RPM over 100
2)ICP over 500
3)CRANKING Voltage over 9.5 (in a '99)

And, as stupid as it sounds,,,, make sure you have plenty of engine oil and you're not low on fuel (at 1/4 tank we can run dry with a cracked pick-up)

Finally, just for S&G's, my "Usual" No Start List for review;

WTS Light? - do you get it when you first roll-on the key? (shows the computer is running)

Do you see cranking rpm on the Tach? Do you have a spare CPS to try?

Is there fuel in the fuel bowl now? Does it refill after cranking? (open the drain lever to check) Look above the pass ft tire, you'll see a 3/8" metal tube, against the motor that ends there, it's the drain for the bowl (yellow lever you slide to the side). Get a cup, open the lever, drain the fuel bowl, look at the fuel, close the lever. Then, turn the key to the ON position (should hear the pump) for 15 secs. Drain the fuel bowl again, whaddya got?

Can you hear/feel the pump running (below the dr seat, against the framerail)

Could the fuel gauge be giving a bad reading? (Below 1/4 tank?)

Is it cranking fast enough? - it won't even TRY to start if cranking too slowly.

Is your truck "chipped"? If so, remove it as a Test.

You can unplug the ICP sensor, as a Test, so the PCM sets a default value for the IPR to run on (expect this to set a new "Low ICP" code, don't let that misdirect you after a scan).

Did you check the plug and sheet metal nut going to the IPR? That nut can vibrate off and allow the solenoid going over the valve to slide around. The wires going to the IPR can get brittle, crack, and short together. Make sure the plug & wires look in good shape.
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post #5 of 8 Old 09-05-2019, 04:32 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NoRalPh View Post
But, you have ForScan with you?

You should be able to read the ICP (HPOP) pressure with that.

Remember, the PCM needs to "see" these 3 important things to trigger he IDM to fire the engine;

1)RPM over 100
2)ICP over 500
3)CRANKING Voltage over 9.5 (in a '99)

And, as stupid as it sounds,,,, make sure you have plenty of engine oil and you're not low on fuel (at 1/4 tank we can run dry with a cracked pick-up)
Got a good pair of hot batteries in it -- voltage check is holding at 11.8+ while cranking. Unfortunately my main problem is I don't have the computer or FORScan with me - my guy who normally does the diagnosis for me is in Kentucky -- I'm stuck in Rockford, IL with the no-start condition.

Quote:
Finally, just for S&G's, my "Usual" No Start List for review;

WTS Light? - do you get it when you first roll-on the key? (shows the computer is running)

Do you see cranking rpm on the Tach? Do you have a spare CPS to try?
WTS light is working - Tach is showing RPM movement during crank - have tested with two different CPS - one "known good"

Quote:

Is there fuel in the fuel bowl now? Does it refill after cranking? (open the drain lever to check) Look above the pass ft tire, you'll see a 3/8" metal tube, against the motor that ends there, it's the drain for the bowl (yellow lever you slide to the side). Get a cup, open the lever, drain the fuel bowl, look at the fuel, close the lever. Then, turn the key to the ON position (should hear the pump) for 15 secs. Drain the fuel bowl again, whaddya got?

Can you hear/feel the pump running (below the dr seat, against the framerail)

Could the fuel gauge be giving a bad reading? (Below 1/4 tank?)
Fuel pump and system appears to be operating properly - it refills the bowl almost instantly, and with the drain closed, but lid open slightly, it will build enough pressure to make it "Spray/squirt" a little from the lid.
Quote:
Is it cranking fast enough? - it won't even TRY to start if cranking too slowly.

Is your truck "chipped"? If so, remove it as a Test.

You can unplug the ICP sensor, as a Test, so the PCM sets a default value for the IPR to run on (expect this to set a new "Low ICP" code, don't let that misdirect you after a scan).
It's cranking same as it always has - to be honest - batteries got low once in all this, but have portable gas generator and have been keeping them topped up as well as kept block warmer going.

No modified chip/tunes - most of the vehicle is completely stock other than OEM-rated replacements.

ICP plugin/unplug test was one of the initial things that's been tried, and has been re-tried a couple more times after going through other parts just to be sure. It's also been completely replaced - both IPR and ICP are now new (but neither has made difference)
Quote:
Did you check the plug and sheet metal nut going to the IPR? That nut can vibrate off and allow the solenoid going over the valve to slide around. The wires going to the IPR can get brittle, crack, and short together. Make sure the plug & wires look in good shape.
Did reinspect all wiring down there behind the bowl -- nothing is appearing damaged -- most of it was replaced two years ago during another series of repairs to the truck --

Thanks a ton for the list of checks -- I had already been through most of them but the second set of brains and "eyes" always helps like this -- unfortunately I'm not making any progress -- looking into what shops are close in the area that can come do a scan on the computer and find out what's going on...

Was just hoping maybe someone here was in that area that had an adapter and copy of FORScan or something of the likes to get a quick picture of the data-stream from it.
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post #6 of 8 Old 09-05-2019, 05:56 PM
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Sounds like you are having a **** night. Hopefully you can get it checked in the morning but it sure sounds like the IDM has given up on you. Only other thing I could possibly dream up would be the valve cover harness. That might be something you could tinker with with the 50 cent mod.
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post #7 of 8 Old 09-06-2019, 04:31 AM
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Bump for the morning shift.

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So says the internet... ...and so it shall be.
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OK, thanks for the info. To show my ignorance, what is the problem with 3 nipples...
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post #8 of 8 Old 09-06-2019, 07:37 AM Thread Starter
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Really at point of just needing a good shop reference in Rockford, IL area - unless there's a member out here who wants to make a few $$ and can swing thru and hook up and help see what I'm dealing with -- been stuck going on day 3 now...

Much thanks for all the input -- I was leaning against possible bad IDM and / or something not delivering enough HP oil to the heads. Unfortunately I think I've exhausted what I can from the site of the road without some proper diagnosis
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