I think I need a new injector??? - Ford Powerstroke Diesel Forum
 11Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 26 Old 11-17-2019, 09:36 AM Thread Starter
Powerstroke.org Rookie
 
NA5KAR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2019
Location: Coral Springs, Florida
Posts: 11
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
I think I need a new injector???

Hello all. I'm new to this forum. Thanks in advance for any help. I have a 2001 F250 7.3 with 380,000 miles. The truck has been converted to run on veggie. Since 2011, I have over 160,000 running successfully on Veggie. This is not a veggie post but I wanted you to have the facts in case this plays into my issue. About 2 weeks ago, I was on the highway at about 70 mph. All of a sudden, the truck started vibrating hard. I thought suspension but I was wrong. I got off an exit and stopped at a gas station. While idling, the truck continued to vibrate. I drove it home at about 45 mph. Lots of white smoke out of the tail pipe. A few days later, I opened the drivers side valve cover. Saw a severely bent pushrod on the forward most valve. Picture attached. I replaced the pushrod and put the engine back together. Now before you tell me what an idiot I am, I already know it. I arrogantly thought I solved the mystery without realizing that there is a reason for the pushrod to bend that I had not addressed. When I started the engine, it continued to run like crap and vibrate. A few days ago, I took off the (Drivers side) valve cover again expecting to see a bent pushrod. Nope, it was straight. I checked all of the other pushrods, rocker arms, and springs (as much as I could see). I started the engine and all of the rockers were moving well, all of the rods were moving well, and all of the springs looked good. The engine still ran like crap. Yesterday, I took off the passenger side valve cover. All components were as they were supposed to be and moved properly. This morning, I watched some Youtube videos. A suggestion in one of the videos was to start the engine and remove the injector plugs one by one to see if I have a bad injector. I did that test and the drivers side forward injector was the only one that didn't change the engine performance when unplugged. It is obviously no coincidence that the injector is not working properly in the same position where a rod bent. So, rough running, lots of white smoke, bent rod, non working injector. Before I do the simple (and maybe stupid) thing of simply replacing an injector, is there anything I should look at or do to follow good mechanical methodology? Should I replace the injector or have it rebuilt? Should I remove all of the injectors and have them tested and replace o rings? Thanks a million for any suggestions.

Dan
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	20191102_121616.jpg
Views:	30
Size:	2.76 MB
ID:	725301  
NA5KAR is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 26 Old 11-17-2019, 10:04 AM
Premium Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Southern Indiana
Posts: 1,911
Thanks: 3
Thanked 179 Times in 175 Posts
Mentioned: 58 Post(s)
Quoted: 416 Post(s)
Garage
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Usually, but not always -- a bent push rod is because the valve couldn't open
soo, what would hold the valve closed?

galled valve guide -- maybe
worn pushrod -- side rubbing on something? causing it to be weak
rocker arm out of position
broken valve spring -- more likely

Look closely at the valve spring to see if the coils are broken -- they will overlap each other and the valve will "bottom out" because of coil bind

A compression test would be in order at this time -- does the engine crank over evenly?
cadd and 7.3lf550 like this.

In my defense, I was unsupervised
.
2006 F250 Lariat FX4 cclb
Torque Pro and OBDLink MX bluetooth monitor
General note:
For all those wanting a premium silicone sealer Kubota 70000-73764 is the best your gonna find. This is a hybrid gray silicone that uses solvent rather than acid to start the curing reaction, this makes it safe for aluminum and and any surface that involves coolant.
Hydro is offline  
post #3 of 26 Old 11-17-2019, 11:33 AM
Compression Ignition Addict
 
7.3lf550's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 627
Thanks: 5
Thanked 65 Times in 65 Posts
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Quoted: 86 Post(s)
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
As @Hydro said, do a compression test. It would be very rare that the pushrod bent AND the injector crapped out at the same time. Something caused the pushrod to bend. And now you maw have low or no compression in that cylinder. Which is causing it not to fire. If this is the case, the injector may be working just fine.

Do a compression test. If its low on that cylinder, plan on tearing it down.
cadd likes this.

03 7.3l 550, FRx, 6637 mod, 4 inch turbo back, ccv delete, aih delete, HPx, Riffraffs OCR, Turbo-pyro-boost-coolant EV2 gauges, Bullydog GT tuner.

03 X 6.0 175/30 warren sticks, Livewire TS w/ warren tunes, Blue spring mod, atlas 40 ficm, 270amp dc power alt

Quote:
Originally Posted by Heavy_GD View Post
goats lives matter.
7.3lf550 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #4 of 26 Old 11-17-2019, 12:16 PM Thread Starter
Powerstroke.org Rookie
 
NA5KAR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2019
Location: Coral Springs, Florida
Posts: 11
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Thank you both for your response. One thing I didn't include in my post was, before I removed the valve covers yesterday, I started the engine and removed the oil fill cap. A local diesel mechanic suggested this. I didn't feel any blow by from the fill tube. I agree that I should do a compression test, but I wanted to mention that first. My first thought when I re-evaluated why the rod bent was a stuck valve. I do run veggie in the truck and I thought that a gummed up valve from that may have caused it to stick. I do start on diesel and shut down on diesel, so I am not leaning heavily on that theory. I agree that it might be a broken spring. I have the tool to remove it and I'll check that out. A friend suggested that I swap injectors to see if the 'bad' injector works in another cylinder and a good injector is dead in the 'bad' cylinder. Please let me know if this is a dumb idea. One other thing... is there any possibility that the wiring going to the injector is an issue? Thanks again.
NA5KAR is offline  
post #5 of 26 Old 11-17-2019, 12:48 PM
california deplorable


 
john galt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 10,049
Thanks: 1,048
Thanked 655 Times in 633 Posts
Mentioned: 435 Post(s)
Quoted: 3154 Post(s)
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
again i will start off with saying i am no guru nor do i pretend to be the smartest guy in the room but
veggie cleans like nothing i have ever seen if the rod bent there is a mechanical reason for it
check the spring and do a compression test first
yes the wiring could be an issue and moving the injector will identify that but that will NOT cause a rod to bend
Hydro likes this.

I like mead
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

early 04 f350 6.0 cclb lariat sr
Bulletproof oil &egr, elc, sct x3, edge CTS, afe intake, blue spring, t-500, MTW stage 2, Vivians looney, 305 x55x20 bfg at ko's, 4 inch cat back, 4"BDS fox shocks and steering stabilizer, tri pilar gauge set, coolant filter, riff raff boots, new headliner, 7 inch touch screen w/back up, new carpet, near whole new interior,

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


FederalOwnershipRespectfullyDeclined


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
john galt is online now  
post #6 of 26 Old 11-17-2019, 01:44 PM
Compression Ignition Addict
 
7.3lf550's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 627
Thanks: 5
Thanked 65 Times in 65 Posts
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Quoted: 86 Post(s)
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
The bent rod signifies a mechanical problem. This problem could be causing the cylinder not to fire. Hence why we think your injector is perfectly fine. If the cylinder is low on compression it will not fire. So unplugging the injector will make no difference as the truck is just pumping the fuel out the exhaust.

It is possible that something got into that cylinder and damaged the injector and the valve. Like the tip of the glow plug broke off.

If you wish to pull the injector, check and see if the nozzle is still in tact. If you pull the glow plug to do a compression test make sure it has the tip on it.
john galt likes this.

03 7.3l 550, FRx, 6637 mod, 4 inch turbo back, ccv delete, aih delete, HPx, Riffraffs OCR, Turbo-pyro-boost-coolant EV2 gauges, Bullydog GT tuner.

03 X 6.0 175/30 warren sticks, Livewire TS w/ warren tunes, Blue spring mod, atlas 40 ficm, 270amp dc power alt

Quote:
Originally Posted by Heavy_GD View Post
goats lives matter.
7.3lf550 is offline  
post #7 of 26 Old 11-17-2019, 03:11 PM Thread Starter
Powerstroke.org Rookie
 
NA5KAR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2019
Location: Coral Springs, Florida
Posts: 11
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Again, two great response. Thank you both. I will get the compression test kit tomorrow morning and check it. I'll especially look for damage to the glow plug. 7.3lf550, I think your explanation is right on point. When the problem first happened, I switched back to diesel and drove the truck home. There was lots of white smoke from the tail pipe. I guess that could have been unburned diesel fuel?

So hypothetically, if the glow plug or the injector tip broke off, that would mean that the head needs to come off? And if I take one off, should I take the other one off to do the same cleaning and inspection service to it?
NA5KAR is offline  
post #8 of 26 Old 11-17-2019, 04:17 PM
Premium Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Southern Indiana
Posts: 1,911
Thanks: 3
Thanked 179 Times in 175 Posts
Mentioned: 58 Post(s)
Quoted: 416 Post(s)
Garage
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
The piston to head clearance is pretty tight -- if a glow plug tip broke off, you should hear the knock

if the tip got stuck in the valve, when the piston comes to the top -- the valve will bend -- again you should hear a knock

A broken valve spring should be obvious by visual inspection -- no need to remove the spring to look

7.3 Powerstroke valve springs didn't have a high seat pressure(71-78 pounds). This can lead to valve float at high RPM's sometimes causing bent or broken pushrods
Possible I suppose, that your springs are getting "tired" and not properly returning the valves at high speed -- this would also cause the lifters to "slam" the cam lobes at high rpm
john galt likes this.

In my defense, I was unsupervised
.
2006 F250 Lariat FX4 cclb
Torque Pro and OBDLink MX bluetooth monitor
General note:
For all those wanting a premium silicone sealer Kubota 70000-73764 is the best your gonna find. This is a hybrid gray silicone that uses solvent rather than acid to start the curing reaction, this makes it safe for aluminum and and any surface that involves coolant.
Hydro is offline  
post #9 of 26 Old 11-18-2019, 02:21 PM
Compression Ignition Addict
 
7.3lf550's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 627
Thanks: 5
Thanked 65 Times in 65 Posts
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Quoted: 86 Post(s)
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hydro View Post
The piston to head clearance is pretty tight -- if a glow plug tip broke off, you should hear the knock

if the tip got stuck in the valve, when the piston comes to the top -- the valve will bend -- again you should hear a knock

A broken valve spring should be obvious by visual inspection -- no need to remove the spring to look

7.3 Powerstroke valve springs didn't have a high seat pressure(71-78 pounds). This can lead to valve float at high RPM's sometimes causing bent or broken pushrods
Possible I suppose, that your springs are getting "tired" and not properly returning the valves at high speed -- this would also cause the lifters to "slam" the cam lobes at high rpm
I agree 100%....old valve springs and high rpms can float a valve/bend a push rod

I may be wrong here, but since he has changed the pushrod the truck should run fine now if that was the problem. Unless it bent the valve? I have never seen one float enough to come into contact with the piston. But i may be wrong! Crazy stuff does happen.

03 7.3l 550, FRx, 6637 mod, 4 inch turbo back, ccv delete, aih delete, HPx, Riffraffs OCR, Turbo-pyro-boost-coolant EV2 gauges, Bullydog GT tuner.

03 X 6.0 175/30 warren sticks, Livewire TS w/ warren tunes, Blue spring mod, atlas 40 ficm, 270amp dc power alt

Quote:
Originally Posted by Heavy_GD View Post
goats lives matter.
7.3lf550 is offline  
post #10 of 26 Old 11-18-2019, 02:25 PM
Compression Ignition Addict
 
7.3lf550's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 627
Thanks: 5
Thanked 65 Times in 65 Posts
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Quoted: 86 Post(s)
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Quote:
Originally Posted by NA5KAR View Post
Again, two great response. Thank you both. I will get the compression test kit tomorrow morning and check it. I'll especially look for damage to the glow plug. 7.3lf550, I think your explanation is right on point. When the problem first happened, I switched back to diesel and drove the truck home. There was lots of white smoke from the tail pipe. I guess that could have been unburned diesel fuel?

So hypothetically, if the glow plug or the injector tip broke off, that would mean that the head needs to come off? And if I take one off, should I take the other one off to do the same cleaning and inspection service to it?
If there is something in that cylinder, yes i would take the head off. I have seen people that leave the dented up piston in the block, as long as the cylinder wall is still in good shape. That decision is up to you.

IMO i would only change the glow plugs on the otherside(only if you broke one off the bad side). Unless you tear down to change a piston.

03 7.3l 550, FRx, 6637 mod, 4 inch turbo back, ccv delete, aih delete, HPx, Riffraffs OCR, Turbo-pyro-boost-coolant EV2 gauges, Bullydog GT tuner.

03 X 6.0 175/30 warren sticks, Livewire TS w/ warren tunes, Blue spring mod, atlas 40 ficm, 270amp dc power alt

Quote:
Originally Posted by Heavy_GD View Post
goats lives matter.
7.3lf550 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Ford Powerstroke Diesel Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome