Help me understand Stages and injectors - Ford Powerstroke Diesel Forum
 1Likes
  • 1 Post By trevdalocal
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 10 Old 09-11-2019, 04:55 PM Thread Starter
Powerstroke.org Fanatic
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Posts: 133
Thanks: 11
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Quoted: 19 Post(s)
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Help me understand Stages and injectors

I need some help understanding the different stages and how they relate to performance of injectors. Iíve seen stage 1 injectors and stage 2 injectors that both claim the same 180cc flow. So whatís the difference?

I understand the cc flow rate, but Iíve also heard people talk about another number after such as 30 or maybe 30degrees. What does that mean?

Can you run 160-180cc injectors off the stock HPOP or do you also have to upgrade that?

Any knowledge would be great.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
fa35jsf is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 10 Old 09-11-2019, 05:08 PM
Premium Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Southern Indiana
Posts: 1,668
Thanks: 3
Thanked 145 Times in 141 Posts
Mentioned: 49 Post(s)
Quoted: 361 Post(s)
Garage
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Sales gimmick to sell parts, and for bragging/epein rights

The specifications on the parts is what matters -- the different "stages" are only comparisons within a company/manufacturer(see statement above)

There are no standards to determine "stages"

In my defense, I was unsupervised
.
2006 F250 Lariat FX4 cclb
Torque Pro and OBDLink MX bluetooth monitor
General note:
For all those wanting a premium silicone sealer Kubota 70000-73764 is the best your gonna find. This is a hybrid gray silicone that uses solvent rather than acid to start the curing reaction, this makes it safe for aluminum and and any surface that involves coolant.
Hydro is offline  
post #3 of 10 Old 09-11-2019, 06:45 PM
Compression Ignition Addict
 
00t444e's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Southern OH
Posts: 2,337
Thanks: 41
Thanked 140 Times in 134 Posts
Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Quoted: 564 Post(s)
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
The first number is the flow rate and the second number is how much larger the nozzle is than stock. A 180/30 injector would be a 180cc injector with a 30% over stock nozzle.

00 f250 ext. cab, lb, 4x4, 158,000, zf 6 speed, South Bend 1944ofe, 4 in lift, 315/75/16 Courser MXTs, rear Detroit locker, PMF traction bars, Full Force 180/80 injectors, php hydra, Riff Raff frx, Riff Raff billet compressor wheel, Dieselsite pre pump kit, Dorman up pipes,IAH delete, ccv mod, 6637 filter, Auto Meter gauges, scan guage 2, 4 in diamod eye straight pipe 6 in tip.
00t444e is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #4 of 10 Old 09-13-2019, 09:44 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Posts: 60
Thanks: 12
Thanked 18 Times in 18 Posts
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Quoted: 11 Post(s)
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
The first number is the amount of fuel the injector will deliver in 1000(?) full capacity injection events, and the second number is the percentage LARGER THAN stock of the injector nozzle. The first number is significant because the more fuel you can deliver, the more power you can make, assuming you have enough air to keep up. The second number is important, because as engine speed increases, the window of opportunity to inject your fuel decreases, and the greater the capacity of the injector (first number), the more fuel you have to move in that window of opportunity. If you nozzle is too small, you will reach a point where it doesn't matter how big your injector is, you simply won't be able to use all of it, esp as RPM increases.

Now, you're probably wondering, why not just get a huge injector with a huge nozzle, say a 400/400? Well, as your injectors and nozzles get bigger, the more critical other aspects of your HEUI system become. To put it in very basic terms, your HPOP needs to be able to "keep up" with a big injector (first number). A 15 degree HPOP (found in OBS 7.3s) in decent condition may "run out" of oil somewhere around a 180cc injector with a reasonable tune. Beyond that, you need a bigger HPOP, more HPOPs, or hybrid injectors, which is a whole nother post in itself. The bigger injector and bigger nozzle also have an effect on how "clean" the engine will run. A 400/400 injector has a fairly low chance of running clean with a tune you just buy online. By clean, I mean no/little haze (unburnt fuel) at idle and minimal smoke throughout the RPM range with reasonable pedal application. This is because the injector is capable of dumping so much fuel in such a small time, that the even a tiny change in injector pulse results in a large change in the amount of fuel injected. The tune has to be spot on, something that can only be reasonably achieved with live tuning, typically meaning, getting the truck on a dyno in front of the tuner. This is all assuming that the rest of the truck is set up properly, properly sized turbo, etc.
trevdalocal is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to trevdalocal For This Useful Post:
fa35jsf (09-13-2019)
post #5 of 10 Old 09-14-2019, 05:56 AM

 
Corey@CNCFAB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Defiance, OH
Posts: 12,661
Thanks: 1,227
Thanked 879 Times in 811 Posts
Mentioned: 1166 Post(s)
Quoted: 1408 Post(s)
Feedback Score: 4 reviews
Quote:
Originally Posted by fa35jsf View Post
I need some help understanding the different stages and how they relate to performance of injectors. Iíve seen stage 1 injectors and stage 2 injectors that both claim the same 180cc flow. So whatís the difference?

I understand the cc flow rate, but Iíve also heard people talk about another number after such as 30 or maybe 30degrees. What does that mean?

Can you run 160-180cc injectors off the stock HPOP or do you also have to upgrade that?

Any knowledge would be great.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
What most have already said above. But take note, a stage 2 is typically a larger injector with 100% nozzle. Stay away from the non-hybrid A codes with 100% nozzles as they are a pain to tune, are oil hungry, and most tuners will steer you away from 160-180/100's. 160/30's are the max for a 94-97 truck on the stock mechanical fuel pump, and you will need to upgrade the turbo, intake, and exhaust in order to manage your EGT's. 160/30's are pushing it on a stock 94-97 HPOP as they are a 15* (lower volume output) pump. My biggest seller of larger injectors that is also very friendly on the budget and also does not require custom tuning are the 160/0's. If money is tight for a complete turbo, then we have a nice upgrade kit for your turbo.

https://cncfab.us/i-30498082-full-fo...-3-stg1-r.html

https://cncfab.us/i-30498942-kc-turb...it-300317.html

https://cncfab.us/i-30498022-power-h...php-hydra.html

[SIZE="3"]For all your ford powerstroke needs. If you dont see what you are looking for on the website, please use the contact page and shoot us a message or
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Part numbers will help alot too if they are not on our site.
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to [email protected] For This Useful Post:
fa35jsf (09-14-2019), Heavy_GD (09-17-2019), trevdalocal (09-18-2019)
post #6 of 10 Old 09-17-2019, 10:14 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Posts: 60
Thanks: 12
Thanked 18 Times in 18 Posts
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Quoted: 11 Post(s)
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Quote:
Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
What most have already said above. But take note, a stage 2 is typically a larger injector with 100% nozzle. Stay away from the non-hybrid A codes with 100% nozzles as they are a pain to tune, are oil hungry, and most tuners will steer you away from 160-180/100's. 160/30's are the max for a 94-97 truck on the stock mechanical fuel pump, and you will need to upgrade the turbo, intake, and exhaust in order to manage your EGT's. 160/30's are pushing it on a stock 94-97 HPOP as they are a 15* (lower volume output) pump. My biggest seller of larger injectors that is also very friendly on the budget and also does not require custom tuning are the 160/0's. If money is tight for a complete turbo, then we have a nice upgrade kit for your turbo.

https://cncfab.us/i-30498082-full-fo...-3-stg1-r.html

https://cncfab.us/i-30498942-kc-turb...it-300317.html

https://cncfab.us/i-30498022-power-h...php-hydra.html
Corey, what are the biggest sticks you would recommend for a OBS turbo running that kit?
trevdalocal is offline  
post #7 of 10 Old 09-17-2019, 11:12 AM
Super Moderator

 
Heavy_GD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: 804Va
Posts: 21,736
Thanks: 4,240
Thanked 2,112 Times in 2,020 Posts
Mentioned: 428 Post(s)
Quoted: 3121 Post(s)
Garage
Feedback Score: 4 reviews
Quote:
Originally Posted by trevdalocal View Post
Corey, what are the biggest sticks you would recommend for a OBS turbo running that kit?

He is usually pretty active, but since I tag him in several convos a day you can always get him here: [email protected]

GD

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


Quote:
Originally Posted by djmaguire View Post
So says the internet... ...and so it shall be.
Quote:
Originally Posted by G8orFord View Post
OK, thanks for the info. To show my ignorance, what is the problem with 3 nipples...
Heavy_GD is offline  
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Heavy_GD For This Useful Post:
trevdalocal (09-18-2019)
post #8 of 10 Old 09-17-2019, 11:20 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Posts: 60
Thanks: 12
Thanked 18 Times in 18 Posts
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Quoted: 11 Post(s)
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heavy_GD View Post
He is usually pretty active, but since I tag him in several convos a day you can always get him here: [email protected]
Thanks!
Heavy_GD likes this.
trevdalocal is offline  
post #9 of 10 Old 09-18-2019, 10:47 AM

 
Corey@CNCFAB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Defiance, OH
Posts: 12,661
Thanks: 1,227
Thanked 879 Times in 811 Posts
Mentioned: 1166 Post(s)
Quoted: 1408 Post(s)
Feedback Score: 4 reviews
Quote:
Originally Posted by trevdalocal View Post
Corey, what are the biggest sticks you would recommend for a OBS turbo running that kit?
160/0's and that kit go very well. The kit will still do ok with 160/30's but you would need custom tuning, and I recommend to go to a completely new charger, and that would be the 63/73.


I also recommend to go with the 1.0 AR exhaust housing too for better turbo spooling at lower rpm range.

https://cncfab.us/i-30497759-garrett...ng-170307.html

[SIZE="3"]For all your ford powerstroke needs. If you dont see what you are looking for on the website, please use the contact page and shoot us a message or
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Part numbers will help alot too if they are not on our site.
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to [email protected] For This Useful Post:
trevdalocal (09-18-2019)
post #10 of 10 Old 09-18-2019, 11:00 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Posts: 60
Thanks: 12
Thanked 18 Times in 18 Posts
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Quoted: 11 Post(s)
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Gotcha, good to know, thanks for the reply!
trevdalocal is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Ford Powerstroke Diesel Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome