Hood Cracked from Fatigue - Ford Powerstroke Diesel Forum
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post #1 of 41 Old 06-08-2019, 09:19 PM Thread Starter
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Hood Cracked from Fatigue

All,
Please check out the attached pic and let my know if anyone has seen this?
Inherited truck from former boss and thought I was going to lose the hood today on the freeway.
Opened the hood to investigate and this is what I found.
Typical aluminum fatigue cracking.

This is an obvious manufacturer defect, but I know I'm in for a battle.

I researched internet and LOTS of people have hood flexing problems and I think this will become a major issue. I think mine is pronounced because it wasn't addressed earlier, but this cannot be an isolated incident.

I have close up pics also.

Thoughts??

Thanks
Rob
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post #2 of 41 Old 06-09-2019, 03:59 AM
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I would need to see a hood in person for a better opinion. From your pics....that's not just from driving down the road. That looks like it was pushed on (from the front), in the very middle. Driving down the road at HWY speeds for LONG periods of time.....maybe. Not to mention that would nee to be speeds OVER 80+ or severe headwinds. MAYBE it was an auto style car wash that beat on the hood???


Too many variables to account for when someone is a second hand owner.


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post #3 of 41 Old 06-09-2019, 07:01 AM Thread Starter
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It is definitely from driving down the road. I have a degree in Aerospace Engineering with a lot of knowledge on Fatigue cracking. The spider pattern is a indicator. As I said the outside of the hood is perfect. I have an identical XLT right next to it and the hood profiles are exact on outside.
You can hold the center of the hood and flex each side up and down just as the hoods do in high winds and and it flexes and pops right at the cracks. It appears the inner layer and outer layer are also de-laminated. I assume they were held together with adhesive at one point.
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post #4 of 41 Old 06-09-2019, 10:29 AM
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I’ll have to take a look at mine. I drive a lot of undivided highway and I know when oncoming tractor trailer units pass me or other large trucks, there is a noticeable hood flutter from all the wind turbulence. If all that keeps the hood secured is the latch, I wouldn’t be surprised if more vehicles have this issue.

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post #5 of 41 Old 06-09-2019, 11:54 AM
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Good thread , I have seen a few like this

when u make a truck out of aluminum cans maybe you need an Aerospace engineering degree vs Automotive to avoid these issues ?
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post #6 of 41 Old 06-09-2019, 01:02 PM
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Just checked mine, 38,000km on the odometer and no signs of cracking. There’s a lot of hood lifting when I meet oncoming heavy traffic and I’ve been worried the hood was going to come off a few times. Thanks for the heads up as I never look up when I pop the hood.
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post #7 of 41 Old 06-09-2019, 04:05 PM
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Okay....let's recap:
Quote:
Inherited truck from former boss
So you can't say specifically that the damage occurred ONLY due to driving down the road. You can't even say at what speeds it happened.

Quote:
Typical aluminum fatigue cracking.
I can't argue that one (hint: the hood IS made of aluminum.....NO wonder) but I can't be in person to inspect it myself since it's painted also.
Quote:
This is an obvious manufacturer defect
OH.....cause your an engineer.....right. So no one could suggest the hood latch is loose or the hood not properly supported when shut.
Quote:
I think this will become a major issue
...BUT you said it IS a obvious defect......why are you second guessing your degree field???
Quote:
It is definitely from driving down the road.
Didn't you say ....
Quote:
Inherited truck from former boss
...Yes...yes you did...



Quote:
You can hold the center of the hood and flex each side up and down just as the hoods do in high winds and and it flexes and pops right at the cracks
Sort of in the same way and in the area a mechanic or tech would shut the hood?? OR when someone shuts the hood but it doesn't latch and they try to push down on it to catch the latch???? That sort of thing couldn't possibly cause a stress to that area of the hood.......right??? NO WAY.....Cause an Aerospace engineer would have thought of that one.....or thought of at least 20 other possibilities, conducted proper analysis to determine they can't be part of the problem.....which wasn't stated by yourself nor evidence presented to show that it had been completed.



I'll trade you arguments all day along as my Failure Mode and Effects Analysis training has solved more "engineering" problems/manufacturing defects then most engineers have solved.


Listen...it's all good...You only disagree since you think your degree has solved your problem. Now here's the catch.....go find more trucks JUST like that and post the VINs with pics of the damage for all that you PERSONALLY see and inspect. When you find 1,000 or more I'll personally give you a Gold Star sticker for the effort. We can then write up a white paper and send it to Ford. That way you get the credit for the discovery and solution.


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post #8 of 41 Old 06-09-2019, 05:19 PM
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Who hurt you HeavyAssault?

Lol.
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post #9 of 41 Old 06-10-2019, 03:31 AM
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I'm not hurt in any way, shape, or form. LMAO..


When people choose vanity by stating their "educational standing" someone needs to show them their lacking common sense and logical thinking.


Consider this: Ford produced around 896k F-series trucks in 2017. That's not SD, but all F-series. Now lets say they have done that for 2018-2019. Cool....Lets make the math a tad easy...Round up to 900k trucks per year....For three years...That's 2.7 million F-series.....AWESOME.



Now say (since I can't find decent info) ...say 1/3 of those are SD trucks....Roughly 800k trucks are Super Duty trucks. Now we want to figure out how many have a "defective" hood. Using 1% we would need to find 8,000 trucks AND determine that they were damaged ONLY due to the stress induced by frontal load on that section of the hood. This frontal load cannot be anything BUT from driving the truck on the road (as indicated by our "Aerospace Engineer"). Now his task to gather evidence is to find 1,000 trucks.....a mere 12.5% of the 1% total....which ends up as .125% of the roughly 800k trucks.


SO.....IF he even finds 1,000 trucks with the "defect" it's likely to be .125% of the total production number of Super Duty trucks on the road.



If I'm wrong with anything I said before this post, show me where I'm wrong...I'll gladly love to learn more than I already know....and give you credit for teaching me a thing or two.


After this I expect some sort of aggravating retort...he will try to argue something....then throw in his "work experience"...blah blah blah.....Yet he will never accept ANY other opinion other than his own.


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post #10 of 41 Old 06-10-2019, 03:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TeddyD View Post
Who hurt you HeavyAssault?

Lol.

As a lifelong aviation mechanic, and no doubt mechanics in general, I get irritated whenever someone uses their education to speak in absolutes.



Education is almost always trumped by experience. Also, he didn't mention what branch or field his education is in nor how long he has experience in putting his education to work.



There are WAY too many variables in this situation to say there is a design defect process going on here. There are lots of guys with well over a hundred thousand miles on their trucks who do hotshot hauling. None of them have posted something like this to my knowledge.



This could be early material failure, no doubt. However, is it a systemic problem? If it WERE systemic, we would see people posting pictures and complaints of cracks like these at various attachment and hold down points from all over the truck. More than likely, it's isolated and likely caused by either rough handling or the hood not being properly adjusted. If the latter, then the owner SHOULD have noticed excessive hood flutter and had the issue addressed.



Since the OP is an aerospace engineer, perhaps he has forgotten that sample size with recurring failures of the exact same nature are required before even forming a hypothesis that one would publish. Then, testing is required of a diverse sample batch straight off the assembly line under the suspected conditions and/or conditions observed from hoods that have been installed on trucks which would then be compared to a sample batch from trucks that have seen road duty of the nature, time and closely matching conditions as the single example pictured here to get to the point of saying "manufacturing defect". Having said that, no company in their right minds would initiate such a discovery process based on this one example.



I'm going to say that more than likely, this isn't a manufacturing defect but a failure of the end user to notice something isn't right with the way the hood flexes during use and thus, over time, as ANY metal would when subjected to flexing and vibration conditions such as what a hood goes through, saw these cracks form. So yes, the OP is going to have a battle on his hands if he thinks this will be fully repaired by Ford on Fords dime.



I am not willing to say it's only from an improperly adjusted hood. Since I don't know if the layers of the hood in this area are stamp welded, glued or some other forming process, I refuse to speculate on that aspect. I also don't know if the original owner ever drove down the highway with the hood latched, but not fully closed. As I mentioned, too many variables. That is my personal suspicion based on over 20 years of maintaining U.S. Army Blackhawk helicopters under the worst conditions you can imagine.

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