A Doozy Of A Crank No Start Challenge For You All! - Ford Powerstroke Diesel Forum
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post #1 of 109 Old 01-27-2020, 09:50 PM Thread Starter
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A Doozy Of A Crank No Start Challenge For You All!

New to the forum so I'm learning how to use this. Please forgive my mistakes on here.
I have a New FICM, New FICM Relay, Not FICM connectors, 99% sure it's not the wiring harness or injectors but I explain why I think that in more detailed below.
I have read countless threads upon threads upon threads about crank no starts across multiple forums before hoping you all will be guys who can help me find this problem. I feel like I have checked everything that has been suggested to try before bothering you all with this. I know no one with a IDS or Auto Equinity tool or anything.

My personal truck, 2005 F250 King Ranch, 6.0L w/ 105K miles, Well taken care of and not ever driven hard.

As I was saying I just installed an upgraded FICMRepair.com FICM, New FICM relay, All FICM plugs are plugged in tight. Harness and connectors have been checked thoroughly several times. The head scratcher for me is I think I only have one 1 injector clicking on precycle and that is it.
I have tried to add as many details as I could without it being ridiculously long. I think it still turned out being ridiculously long but I have been pulling my hair out on what to try next. I am starting to go crazy and I need your help!
To get started I have read all over this forum about calling Ed at FICMRepar.com so I called him and Ed answered which was awesome! I did not expect that. I decided with my voltage readings to go ahead and send my FICM to him for bench testing. He received it, tested it and called me back with the findings that although it was weak and didn't hold a steady voltage he felt I still had another problem happening regardless of the FICM. While he had the FICM I went ahead and told him to give it the ULTRA treatment and put a Atlas 40 tune in it. Before having Ed do that though he ended up spending over an hour on the phone with me trying to troubleshoot my problem unfortunately with no luck. There was only so much we could check then with the FICM with him in Iowa. I have to say though that folks, that is some awesome customer service and I totally recommend using their services! Anyway, I got another FICM from Ed back today and installed. Like he said he felt I had another problem somewhere and he was right. I still have the same problem. I turn the key on and I get 1 injector clicking on the precycle injector buzz or clicking but that is it. The click starts slow and steadily increases somewhere from the back of the motor but I can't narrow down which injector exactly. That part is only important to me because that means I am getting I signal to turn them on or at least a weak one. I want to know why I can have one injector somewhat working but not the other 7. Again, I have checked the wiring harness and connectors several times now and everything looks good. There is hardly any wear or chaffing anywhere on the harness and plugs are in tight.

I have added the history of the work I performed recently and further back along with the story leading into this problem.

I have put all of the readings for everything below to help you. I have used a Scanguage2 and a SCTx4 tuner for scanning. For some reason my Torque Pro app and the OBD2 bluetooth device will not connect to my truck since this started happening. I don't know if it is related or not but thought it might be something.

It was running great before and after I worked on it until it wasn't. This spring I plan on pulling a camper from the Tulsa area to Yosemite and up to Yellowstone before returning home so I wanted everything with the truck as right as it could be before leaving. The studs were the last item on my list of “bulletproofing” or “dealer proofing” on my truck. The other items I completed in the past.

I just installed new ARP studs, OEM Head gaskets, along with some other parts.
After getting it all back together I got it started and drove it for about 20 miles in town and on the highway before returning home. It ran perfect. No smoke, no problems. An hour later I started it again it still ran great. I drove it 4 miles to a dr. appt. and it ran great.
Here are the details of how the problem started.
I started the truck after the appt. and it took about 5 sec. cranking before it started and when it did it was only idling @ 350rpm with no throttle response. It was like it was running on half the cylinders. I shut it off and restarted it again and I noticed there was no pre-cycle injector buzz. It did start better that time but had an hesitation or a sec. delay before responding when I pushed the pedal. After that sec. It would catch and rev up and run better. Not great but better. Driving back home I noticed each time I took off from a stop sign a little bit of blue smoke would puff out of the exhaust when it would hesitate. By the time I got back home it was barely running so I backed it back into my shop where I shut it off. It hasn't started since.

I added lots of details below but I probably made it harder to understand this way. I have all this info. and didn't know how to put it in writing very well.

WORK COMPLETED WITHIN LAST MONTH, Dec. 27st.2019- 105,240miles
Probably Irelevant or Relevant...I don't know anymore.
ARP Head Studs(no problems with the engine up to this point, heads were good..
New OEM Ford head gaskets, gaskets looked good but I could see where 2 spots were getting close to having problems, I just didn't want to wait any longer or until I had problems and we all know I eventually would)
New “External” OEM injector seals and o-rings(I did not touch the internal o-rings and they looked good after inspecting them very well) I did not touch the fuel rails nipples.
I cleaned IPR screen again (the screen was a little dirty but wasn't broke and I was getting good readings. I have another IPR that I changed to test it with no luck with fixing this problem)
Re-cleaned the turbo vanes again(all looked good)
Re-cleaned the screen below the oil cooler(it was a little dirty but not bad)
New intercooler pipes and boots,(I had two boots that were starting to crack. Cheaper to buy set)
New high flow Fuel banjo bolts,

After Truck Quit Starting
And as of today a new FICM from FICMRepair.com and new FICM relay.(no change)
New OEM Exhaust Back pressure Sensor (It threw a code saying it wasn't working so I installed one. I cleaned the exh. sensor manifold tube before change with no change to code or sensor readings)
New OEM ICP Sensor(Again it threw a code saying it wasn't working so I installed one)
This was from both the SG2 and SCTx4 tuner scanning for codes. They both kept throwing the same codes below but they are the only codes.

Codes stored after problem started
P0113 IAT Sensor 1 Circuit High Input, (I've done nothing with this yet)
P0472 Exhaust Back Pressure Sensor low, (Changed OEM, explained above)
P2284 Injector Control Pressure Sensor Circuit Range/Performance, (Changed OEM, Explained above)
Neither code is showing now.

Gauge Readings
When Cranking Now, NO INJECTOR BUZZ, NO START
EOT 62F SCTx4
RPM-340 SCTx4
ICV 1.74 SCTx4
IPR 48 SCTx4
ICP 1400 SCTx4
VOLTAGE 12.3V SCTx4
EBP 48.7 SCTx4
FICM LOGIC VOLTAGE 12v SCNGAGE2
FICM MAIN POWER 49v SCNGAGE2
FICM VEHICLE POWER 12v SCNGAGE2
SYNC 1 after it reaches 150rpm, so normal.

WORK COMPLETED BEFORE THAT, Oct. 21st 2019-104,300miles
Probably Irrelevant,
New Alliant water pump
New Alliant 180 amp alternator,(Noticed lights were dimmer and voltage was reading 11.4volts on average, after the change it's been reading 12.8-13.5volts)
New batteries(they were 4 years old, figured new alternator might as well change batteries)
New HPOP SCT fitting
New OEM IPR screen, (The other had a hole in the screen but again was running fine)
New aftermarket EGR delete/ downpipe, (This and oil cooler was why I started bulletproofing)
New Ford oil cooler and screen, (eot/ect deltas were 20F apart, 3-4 after)
New Sinister coolant filter kit
New blue spring update
Turbo disassembled and cleaned(vanes were stuck closed)
New oil and fuel filters.
New S&B Air Filter system(I don't know why)
Cat. And Muffler delete
New MBRP 4” exhaust,
New 4” Rush muffler(Still loud but not in cab.)
New degas bottle cap(age)
New radiator hoses(age)
New serp. Belt(age)
New Redhead steering box(tired of driving ditch to ditch)
4 New slotted rotors and calipers(left rear brake caliper stuck on a trip. so replaced them all)
New oil and fuel filters

I've always ran Rotella T6 Full synth., never over 4500k before changes, I always use Diesel Kleen +Cetane Boost with every fill up. Sometimes every other fill-up if I was in a hurry but usually not.

FYI
All bolts were torqued to spec, studs, injectors, fuel rails, etc.
Before putting the valve covers back on I did a pressure test on both fuel rails and everything looked good.

I will try and watch this as much as possible and to answer any questions you may have. I hope you all can help me with this and my information overload I didn't send you all running for the hills. Thanks...John
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post #2 of 109 Old 01-27-2020, 10:31 PM
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What are the ICP volts when cranking?
Oil pressure gauge (on dash) coming up when cranking?
Fuel filling the secondary fuel bowl with the key on? How fast?

Get ForScan Lite on a smartphone and pull codes (or better yet get the full version on a laptop and ALSO do the uncompensated injector contribution test).

Are the injectors OEM? How old are they?

You should also get a fuel pressure test gauge.
Joshua Billman likes this.

Mark
06 F250CC SB FX4 Lariat; ARP studs; OEM gaskets; Banks exhaust; DynaTrac Ball joints; RACCCV6000; JimmiJammers; Ravelco; SynchroMax in trans case; Fumoto valves; Harpooned; Blue regulator spring; DashDAQ; PHP FICM; RiffRaff boots; DCPower 270AXP; Power Inverter; Bilstein shocks; BPD EGR cooler, radiator, water pump; SCT w/ SRL+; Rotella ELC Ultra Coolant; X2Power AGM batteries
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post #3 of 109 Old 01-27-2020, 10:41 PM
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Oh, also what is the vreference voltage - KOEO and when cranking?

Mark
06 F250CC SB FX4 Lariat; ARP studs; OEM gaskets; Banks exhaust; DynaTrac Ball joints; RACCCV6000; JimmiJammers; Ravelco; SynchroMax in trans case; Fumoto valves; Harpooned; Blue regulator spring; DashDAQ; PHP FICM; RiffRaff boots; DCPower 270AXP; Power Inverter; Bilstein shocks; BPD EGR cooler, radiator, water pump; SCT w/ SRL+; Rotella ELC Ultra Coolant; X2Power AGM batteries
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post #4 of 109 Old 01-28-2020, 08:30 AM Thread Starter
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1.74v ICPV- I think I labeled it as ICV above.

Oil pressure gauge comes up a little bit. It does move but not much. When the truck started before it quit starting the oil pressure gauge looked the same until it started. Then it would shoot up to a normal reading instantaneously as it started. Which should be correct that it won't start until it has base oil pressure.
Also I took the oil filter cap off and checked the filter bowl and hen remote starting it I had oil filling the bowl fairly quick.

On the fuel filter bowl, when I took the fuel filter cap off the fuel bowl was fuel to the top. Since I knew the fuel had to be flowing when the truck was running I suspected cranking it over for any at all with the cap off the bowl would immediately over flow the bowl so I didn't crank it.

I don't mind getting the FORSCAN but as I was saying I can't even get my BAFX Bluetooth OBD2 adapter to connect to the truck. I find this odd because it was working fine before I started the ARP studs job. Afterwards, after the truck wouldn't start, it wouldn't connect. I had BAFX send me a new OBD2 adapter thinking maybe the adapter was now bad but it didn't work either. Just the red power light comes on and stays solid. It used to cycle through and blink the red, yellow, green, and blue lights and then after 10 seconds they would come on solid with the blue "I'm assuming Bluetooth" would remain blinking and it would connect t my phone. But like I mentioned my Scangauge 2 and SCT tuner will connect without any problem and the only code they show now is the air intake sensor not working which shouldn't cause a no start no injector buzz...one for only one to click.

That being said I am not 100% it is the one injector trying to click. It just sounds like if you were to eliminate the sounds that 8 injectors make when they are clattering back to 1 injector the click itself sounds similar. I've just never heard one injector clicking before by itself to know for sure. It's like when I see Ron "RIP" doing his injector cycle test and I can hear each injector click...its like that but a click, click ,click about half a sec. apart at first and then it gradually increases to 5-6 clicks per sec. for a total of about 4-5 sec. in total length before it stops. I unplugged the loud vacuum pump and I can hear the fuel pump quietly hum from under the truck when I get down and listen but it has always been a quiet pump.

uncompensated injector contribution test? How do I do this? Is this what Ron was doing with his IDS in his video?

The injectors are OEM and are all original to the truck. I've never had a problem with them before.

I have thought about getting a fuel filter cap that I could check the fuel pressure with unless there is a test port already somewhere I can tie into with a gauge. seems like in a video somewhere I thought that there might be but I can't remember.

vreference? Would this just be the standard battery voltage or I'm I looking for something different? Battery voltage was 12.3v while cranking, 12.1v KO

I'll have to check into price of the FORSCAN for my laptop but I have spent so much money now after the ARP studs took a chunk out of my budget and now the FICM replacement it may have to be a back burner item. I know it would cost more to take to a mechanic but 2 nickels to rub together now ain't much. If I have to get another expensive item it means the truck will have to sit in my shop until I can reaccumulate my funds. Which sucks because this is my #1 daily driver.

I hope I'm answering your questions right. I'm new to this.

Oh and thanks for your reply so quickly btw.
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post #5 of 109 Old 01-28-2020, 08:48 AM Thread Starter
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Also do the injectors need oil and/or fuel pressure to do the precycle test? I was thinking they might just need voltage which is what I have been chasing but maybe I'm chasing the wrong monster.
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post #6 of 109 Old 01-28-2020, 08:54 AM
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They don't need oil or fuel to complete the test.

ForScan Lite (on a phone) will do the injector buzz test. It is just a $5 download.

I guess we need to work on the BlueTooth adapter connectivity first. I'll have to think about that (or defer to some more savvy members here).

To test the fuel pump, you need to suction out the fuel in the bowl. Then just turn the key on to get the fuel pump running - no need to crank for that.

V-reference voltage is the 5 volt reference circuit sent to most two wire connectors.

A short in the v-reference circuit can cause a no-start.

Mark
06 F250CC SB FX4 Lariat; ARP studs; OEM gaskets; Banks exhaust; DynaTrac Ball joints; RACCCV6000; JimmiJammers; Ravelco; SynchroMax in trans case; Fumoto valves; Harpooned; Blue regulator spring; DashDAQ; PHP FICM; RiffRaff boots; DCPower 270AXP; Power Inverter; Bilstein shocks; BPD EGR cooler, radiator, water pump; SCT w/ SRL+; Rotella ELC Ultra Coolant; X2Power AGM batteries
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post #7 of 109 Old 01-28-2020, 08:58 AM
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Oh - and make sure the PCM connectors are free from damage to the pins and that they are plugged in tightly.

Mark
06 F250CC SB FX4 Lariat; ARP studs; OEM gaskets; Banks exhaust; DynaTrac Ball joints; RACCCV6000; JimmiJammers; Ravelco; SynchroMax in trans case; Fumoto valves; Harpooned; Blue regulator spring; DashDAQ; PHP FICM; RiffRaff boots; DCPower 270AXP; Power Inverter; Bilstein shocks; BPD EGR cooler, radiator, water pump; SCT w/ SRL+; Rotella ELC Ultra Coolant; X2Power AGM batteries
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post #8 of 109 Old 01-28-2020, 10:41 AM Thread Starter
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I will check that thanks. I haven't touched the pcm but I'll check it to make sure.

I will check the fuel bowl and check the pump.

I need to get a little more familiar with the vref. check but I think I get what you're saying and I'm sure I can figure it out and do a test.

I will get on FORSCAN lite. I checked my obd adapter in another vehicle and it worked. I will check it again in my truck and see what happens. it would great if it is working now but i'm not getting my hopes up.

This morning I checked the ficm conectors again. Since I had one injector clicking and not 7 I unplugged one connector on the ficm and then the other and I narrowed it down to one connector. I still don't know if the clicking is on the right or left side, i'm going to try to find a injector wiring harness diagram, but I at least have narrowed down to one connector working at 25%. I just have to figure out why that one is a slow click and the other 7 won't click. I think it tells me I have a signal to and through the ficm to an injector. New FICM from Ed so I just don't know where that leads me to next.
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post #9 of 109 Old 01-28-2020, 04:32 PM Thread Starter
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I checked the pcm connectors. They were dirty like normal on the outside of the connector but clean as a whistle on the inside. I don't think they have ever been unplugged before. I unplugged and replugged them in about 10 times. All of the pins looked good. I moved around the wiring harness from the pcm back towards the engine as well. There was still no injector buzz. Well still the one clicking slow but that's it. no change.

I picked up a fuel pressure tester from Oriellys. Of course the kit didn't have the right fitting for the test port or for the banjo bolt connector. I did check for fuel delivery while I had the cap and filter off. From an empty bowl to 80% full took about a sec. and a half before having the key shut off. So I still don't have a fuel pressure reading but I know the bowl fills fast so that is a plus.

I got the Bluetooth adapter to finally connect but the Torque Pro app but it said it had a "ECU Problem, The ECU is reporting that it does not support the reading of any PIDs". My guess is I needed to reconnect my truck and reset up the PIDs using Torque Pro since it disconnect. So I will try the free Forscan app. If it works with my apapter I will download Forscan lite and continue. I didn't think there was a chance in the world an obd2 app would allow to do test like that. I figured they all just read PIDs and DTCs. That's awesome.

I haven't forgotten the vref voltage tests. I just haven't got to them yet but I will.
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post #10 of 109 Old 01-28-2020, 04:39 PM
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Mark
06 F250CC SB FX4 Lariat; ARP studs; OEM gaskets; Banks exhaust; DynaTrac Ball joints; RACCCV6000; JimmiJammers; Ravelco; SynchroMax in trans case; Fumoto valves; Harpooned; Blue regulator spring; DashDAQ; PHP FICM; RiffRaff boots; DCPower 270AXP; Power Inverter; Bilstein shocks; BPD EGR cooler, radiator, water pump; SCT w/ SRL+; Rotella ELC Ultra Coolant; X2Power AGM batteries
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