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'06 no start appear to have ICP, ficm V/sync

7K views 57 replies 5 participants last post by  Danny Hendrix 
#1 ·
Hi All,

I've read though the " no start" sticky and I cannot seem to figure my no start out. 2mo's ago my wife broke my starter, literally broke the housing and the starter was dangling. My neighbor ( a mechanic) put one on in my absence. He noted the alternator did have good output. Also before I left, I was getting a cyl6 contribution code, which in the past has meant its time for another dose of revX and historically that has resolved it. I changed the oil and put in ArchOil. I ordered an alternator and the next month I was out of town working, the alternator went out, She reported that the gauges when all haywire. Obviously the battery V was low for that to happen.

And then the rough running and eventual no start began.

My first thought was the FICM, but I have removed the inspection plate and measured it (47.5-48.5V) steady during starting.
Note: during a long crank I am getting black smoke between 5-10s, none between 0-5s, and you can tell it's trying to start. Also note, I have FICM sync.

I have attached my strip chart during a crank - no start attempt. No the IPR voltage doesn't perfectly line up with the ICP, and I'm beginning to wonder if I should be looking there, or maybe the the FICM is faulting - I do notice that the injector buzzing is less loud and to my recollection less frequent, if that make sense.

As of yesterday, there are no DTC's present and I changed the lower fuel filter and pulled the top to verify fuel was being pumped into the bowl. I have not checked fuel pressure, my gauge is for carbs (10psi)

Any help is appreciated.
Regards,
Joshua
 

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#2 ·
You can have the logic side of your FICM go out and still have good FICM main voltage...especially with voltage issues like you stated. Do you have any way to read the FICM logic voltage?

-jokester
 
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#3 ·
Thanks jokester00, that is what I was afraid of.

Lets say some of the logic board were damaged and some injectors were firing, do you know if I would get that black smoke I'm experiencing? Obviously there are lots of scenarios with the injection system.

Regards,
Joshua
 
#4 ·
3.13 seconds? before much injection pressure was built -- it did regulate afterward, so may be good there

Are you getting enough RPM during cranking? -- need 150

and as @jokester00 mentioned need FICM input voltages -- greater than 10 during crank

starter bolts worked loose? -- never heard of a housing breaking otherwise
 
#5 ·
Rpm during crank is 200 and tapers off to ~190
FICM logic is 11.5V then during crank decreased to 9.5V

Thanks for the help,
Joshua
 
#7 ·
Thanks Bismic, I did a 100A load test on both,

driver side showed weak immediatly and dropped below 8V during a 5s test
Pass side I tested 3 time 10s each and still shows 800CCA
 
#8 ·
Get that drivers side battery replaced and repeat the cranking test.

Normally I like to replace batteries in pairs, but it isn't always needed.

Hard to say if the FICM was damaged w/ low voltage. If the logic side was damaged, it will need to be sent in.

See if you get a Fuel Pulse Width signal when cranking.
 
#9 ·
Agree with @bismic about replacing batteries in pairs. It's cheap insurance. Costco has Interstates for $99!

I have seen 1st hand when a weak battery(ies) caused a no start. A buddy's truck did it on a rafting trip a couple years ago. Hooked up jumpers to him and it fired right up. He replaced them both as soon as we got home.

-jokester
 
#10 ·
I already got the battery replaced. I know the other one will be needing it but with the test results, I didn't feel comfortable asking for both.

I re-installed the FICM, no change except the cranking rpm was a bit higher.
I'll put the ficm back in and see if i can get the fuel pulse width while cranking.

Update soon.
 
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#11 · (Edited)
my odbII scanner isn't sophisticated enough for the fuel pulse width

I went ahead and ordered an exchange from circuit board medic - they are in greenville SC, so I'll get it tomorrow.
 
#13 ·
Well, new ficm arrived, installed and no change?????? I ordered one of the FICM relays and installed too. I was really hoping that would resolve it.

Any ideas before I take in?
 
#14 · (Edited)
I was hoping to see a Fuel Pulse Width. Also, FICMrepair.com will test your FICM for minimal dollars. If it is OK, you avoid the expense of a new one.

If you have Fuel Pulse Width, then the issue is most likely either fuel supply or an injector or two.
 
#15 ·
Bismic - what scanner are you using?
I'm sure my neighbors scanner can do it, I just felt bad asking him again and again. I'll see if i can borrow it tomorrow.

I installed a new fuel pump (since I cannot measure fuel pressure) and both filters, seemed like cheap insurance. I tired with my ficm and the new one.
No real change - subtle change regarding it " trying" to start.
 
#16 ·
I use a DashDAQ primarily, but when it comes to troubleshooting and pulling codes, I turn to ForScan Lite downloaded to my i-phone. It is a $5 or $10 download. Then you need an ELM327 OBDII adapter (WiFi for iOS and BlueTooth for Android). I like the BAFX brand.

There is a test port for measuring fuel pressure. Injectors need 50 psi minimum (Ford says 45 psig minimum) to protect the expensive injectors. There are so many ways fuel pressure can be caused to drop too low. Eventually you might want to get a fuel pressure monitor.

At a minimum you can hook up a hose w/ a Schraeder valve on it and check it at idle w/ a tire pressure gauge. It should be around 60 psig at idle. Have you installed the fuel pressure regulator spring upgrade (blue spring)?

I know a few Techs that would recommend using brake kleen or gasoline on a rag that they put up to the air filter inlet to try to get the engine to kick. I have done it but I am uncomfortable recommending it to others (and definitely hate to see people use starting fluid), but it does provide an aspect to troubleshooting that sometimes proves helpful. Use it only if you know what you are doing.
 
#17 ·
I had the blue spring kit, but had not installed it yet. I installed it yesterday. While doing so, i found the upper fuel filter bone dry... so apparently when installing the fuel pump, I didn't press on the power connector fully, which made me feel a bit dumb....but its resolved now.

It appears to be blowing white smoke during a long crank now, and the smell is of fuel. So I measured the glow plug harness's. Driver 40A and passenger was 29A, so I think I have ruled out the GPCM or the glow plug system in general.

I hope I can borrow a scanner that can view injector info. Does the PCM enter into this equation at all?

Bismic - thanks for the info. Someone , while the truck died on my wife in a parking lot, used starting fluid while she cranked it. I believe they sprayed it in just behind the air filter, so I hope it didn't do any damage????? Could starter fluid cause such a compression loss that it wouldn't start? I will note that I have the degass bottle removed and a small plastic plug in the lower coolant hose. So I would think any compression loss into the cooling system would just blow it out.

go to love people trying to help

Will update later today.

Thanks again for all the help and suggestions!
 
#18 ·
Nothing wrong with ether, when used in the right quantity -- now determining that on a glow plug engine by the average "mechanic" -- well, that is another sack of cats

The practice is discouraged, because the average "joe mechanic" puts too much in and causes troubles

I have seen head gaskets pushed out from between the head and block
knocking that likely damaged rings
starters with the drive end snapped off

I use ether every time I start my old 656 and the temp is low
the 656 and I have come to an agreement on the quantity
and the 656 Hydro is happy with a little snort
 
#19 ·
Just wanted to again thank you all and give an update.

I took my truck to Power by Poole - in NC. Still no start

Olee was able to measure the fuel pressure - ~70psi at the upper bowl. He performed the bubble test - no bubbles. So I don't think and injector is stuck open. He pulled the EGR valve and it was not stuck open.

I have not been able to measure the injector pulse width yet. I'm working on building a gauge to measure the HP oil pressure. He is stumped as well as me?????

I sat down with a print out of the no start trouble shooting sticky. The only item I cannot check off are proving out the harness's and checking to see if the IPR is oil soaked. Which doesn't seem like a likely item since it reads ICP and the ICP voltage is varying....right?

Any further ideas before tearing open the valve covers?

Thank you and Regards,
Joshua
 
#20 ·
The Forscan app and an obd adapter would be handy in your case
 
#21 ·
Thanks Hydro. I will get that app. I have been using the one attached, since i got the truck, great for gauges and strip charting data, but cannot seem to get the injector data.
 

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#22 ·
The laptop version works the best(more powerful) - - not sure about the iOS lite version
may not be any better than what you already have
 
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#23 · (Edited)
I downloaded that app, its much better.

FYI, I think i've determined the problem. I pulled the driver's valve cover.... its coated is goooo

Looks like an oil cooler failure.... what do you think.

We did a KOEO injector test and it only sounds like 3 injectors are actuating.

Joshua


EDIT: I built a pressure testing set up for the ICP sensor. Yes it was building 2000+ psi. Would this be your assessment as well?
 

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#24 ·
That's nasty … you ever change that oil?

I assume you tee'd a gauge in the ICP hole? Did the gauge agree with the ICP?

You could have bad harness connections -- I would swap a clicking injector with one that was not to check the FICM
possible to just move the injector connector without removing the injector
could also be a bad coil or sticking control valve(that is what makes the click)

Oil cooler usually puts oil in the coolant -- high pressure to low pressure thing
 
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#25 ·
No, I didn't tee it but the ICP volt and IPR were reading and were matching up. This was the only way to really tick it off as "not the problem"

Yes, I change the oil. 4 oil changes in the 22k miles ive owned it, can't speak to how it was treated previously. It was a fleet vehicle previously, and when I got it there was obvious oil in degas bottle. I cleaned it out and haven't seen it return. I also have a mishimoto coolant filter on it, regular old wix filter...

My oil drains have not indicated any water/coolant in oil but I've sent in a few samples and both times they indicated higher than normal potassium. I have an amsoil bypass filter on it. I don't think it would remove enough water/coolant and retain it for 1 1/2 yrs, but I don't know, to have this much goo in the valve cover.

I will swap some injectors tomorrow, (I did buy a new ficm) it would be nice if it were only ficm harness but the truck did show rotation "balance/contribution" codes according to my wife. cyl6, then it went away after an oil change, a week after I went out of town for work it showed cyl5/7 and that is when it started running very rough and then "no start"

Do you think multiple coils would fail simultaneously? I mean sure, the coil's slide the spool valve back and forth. The only thing I can think of right now is multiple stuck spool valves. Corrosion or stiction are the two things that come to mind.

Thanks for the razzing and help.
J
 
#26 ·
Does your oil thicken and turn black soon after you change it?
high levels of potassium usually means coolant in the oil
here is some fun reading:
https://www.machinerylubrication.com/Read/29128/sodium-potassium-oil

I have seen heads crack in the valve seat or intake runner and leak coolant into the engine

Antifreeze in the oil will take the babbit off the engine bearings pretty quick
 
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