Tow/Haul compression Brake Problem - Ford Powerstroke Diesel Forum
6.0L Problems Forum Having Trouble? Post here

 2Likes
  • 2 Post By Heater Guy
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 10 Old 12-28-2019, 03:16 PM Thread Starter
Powerstroke.org Rookie
 
Join Date: Dec 2019
Posts: 7
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Tow/Haul compression Brake Problem

I have owned my 2004 F250 4WD since new. I tow a 5th wheel and a bumper hanger 18 ft 5,000 lb race trailer.
While in Haul/Tow, the transmission has always down shifted under breaking. When I brake, the transmission would downshift. When I applied more pedal pressure the transmission would downshift even more. The transmission would stay in that lower gear until I accelerated again.

At 71,000 miles the original transmission failed. A new Ford rebuilt transmission was installed by a Ford dealer which has a 3 year warranty. The rebuilt transmission worked identically as the original transmission, including the compression braking. After 1,000 miles that transmission failed. I wouldn't have power to go uphill, it would go into neutral unexpectedly then back into drive, the tow/haul light would blink on and off, the transmission temperature went up to high and the check engine light came on.
I took it to my local Ford dealership (Future Ford, Concord, CA) for repair. They did the repair, under warranty. Which consisted mainly of replacing clutch packs. they said the transmission fluid was burned.
When I got the truck back, the transmission seemed to work ok, but the downshifting under braking in tow/haul was gone.
I have taken it back to the dealer two times. Of course they told me the transmission is working properly and this transmission never had compression breaking. They even said their transmission mechanic has a 2004 F250 and his doesn't have compression braking while in tow/haul. Either I have had smoke blown up my *** or his transmission isn't working properly.

Yesterday I drove my truck with a 5,000 pound trailer for the first time since the transmission repair. Coming off the freeway and on the brakes, there was no compression breaking. In fact, it took significant amount of additional distance with only the brakes than with both brakes and compression braking.
I would consider the compression breaking a safety factor as it significantly reduces braking distance to slow the truck under control than with only the truck and trailer brakes. My niece is getting this truck & because she will be hauling horses with it, I want the truck to be as safe as possible for her.

According to the Ford information for the 5R110W Tow/Haul function:
"Another feature of the 5R110W TorqueShift transmission is the switch for the tow//haul function, activated by a switch on the shift lever. The purpose of this switch is to make it more energy-efficient to tow heavy loads.
When you activate this switch, it turns on the torque converter lock while in lower gears. This is an important safety feature when going down long hills to control the vehicle's speed. When the gyroscope detects your truck moving down a decline, it automatically downshifts the engine to reduce speed and provides extra ability to brake."

Question,
How can get the dealer to repair the transmission to get the compression braking back when they refuse to acknowledge that it ever had compression braking?

Mark, I need your help to convince them.
Heater Guy is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 10 Old 12-28-2019, 04:09 PM
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

 
ZMANN's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 28,689
Thanks: 2,238
Thanked 1,855 Times in 1,798 Posts
Mentioned: 728 Post(s)
Quoted: 4033 Post(s)
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Mark Kovalaski over at the Powerstroke Nation ( sister site to this one ) can tell you exactly what the 5r does in TH since he was part of the team that wrote the software

I am surprised they did clutches on a OEM Alma Rebuilt unit and did not just replace the unit

something is definitely up with the strategy or actual unit

and why did it smoke the original friction disc ?

6.0 flush pdf
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
ZMANN is offline  
post #3 of 10 Old 12-28-2019, 04:12 PM
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

 
ZMANN's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 28,689
Thanks: 2,238
Thanked 1,855 Times in 1,798 Posts
Mentioned: 728 Post(s)
Quoted: 4033 Post(s)
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
PSMark K states the converter does not lock or unlock any differently in TH than in regular mode so not sure where your info came from ?

from the nation

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Kovalsky View Post
Tow/haul does not keep the torque converter locked any more than normal mode. Tow/haul will make the upshifts at higher speeds and will automatically downshift the transmission to help with engine braking, but it does that with the torque converter unlocked.

Tow/haul also does NOT increase line pressure.

6.0 flush pdf
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
ZMANN is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #4 of 10 Old 12-28-2019, 05:50 PM Thread Starter
Powerstroke.org Rookie
 
Join Date: Dec 2019
Posts: 7
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Tow/Haul compression Brake Problem

,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

Last edited by ZMANN; 12-29-2019 at 07:12 PM.
Heater Guy is offline  
post #5 of 10 Old 12-28-2019, 06:48 PM
Premium Member
 
rabpearson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 365
Thanks: 83
Thanked 18 Times in 15 Posts
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Quoted: 24 Post(s)
Garage
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Take it to another dealer to evaluate.
It should be shifting down with added brake pressure as you described while in tow/haul mode.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk
rabpearson is offline  
post #6 of 10 Old 12-29-2019, 09:26 AM
Member
 
Hblick48's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 63
Thanks: 16
Thanked 9 Times in 9 Posts
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Quoted: 16 Post(s)
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
In tow-haul mode, the transmission will downshift when you tap on brake pedal. Subsequent taps will downshift again so long as a safe engine rpm will result.

Living in California, we travel up and down mountains all of the time. Using this downshift feature is a must! Last year our tranny had an issue in the middle of a cross country trip. Tow-haul didn't work and light was flashing. Needless to say, I pulled a rookie move descending the Grapevine....kept on the bakes the whole way down to the valley. I smelled burned brakes...ruined the brakes on both the fifth wheel and truck. New brakes and drums on fiver, rotors, pads, and calipers on truck. When I removed calipers on truck, found that pistons got so hot that they crystalized and started to desintegrate.

I would have saved a lot of $$$ and trouble if I had just manually downshifted...senior learning moment...won't repeat.

Edit: forgot to mention that transmission needed to be rebuilt. Had them use heavy duty parts...works great now.

Retired and on the go!
'05 F250 Powerstroke
'02 Montana 3280RL 5th Wheel

Last edited by Hblick48; 12-29-2019 at 09:30 AM.
Hblick48 is offline  
post #7 of 10 Old 12-29-2019, 03:25 PM
BTL
Premium Member


 
BTL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: San Jose
Posts: 645
Thanks: 12
Thanked 43 Times in 43 Posts
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Quoted: 223 Post(s)
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
2003 trucks have it. There is a hill that I drive down (unloaded) on the way too beach that my transmission will down shift on and “chirp” my rear tires if I am not careful. Your current dealer is F O S...
BTL

2003 Lariat 4x4 CCSB 6.0
281,500mi
KC Stage 2 Turbo, KDD heads,
ARP Head studs,
175-30 injectors, Adrenalin HPOP
MBRP 4 SS Turbo back
BPD HD remote air to oil cooler
BPD water pump and EGR Cooler
Hayden mechanical fan clutch
Amsoil 2 micron bypass filter
Mishimoto Radiator, HT thermostat and hoses
Mean Green 220amp alternator
Odyssey 65-PC1750T batteries
Accurate Diesel adj. FP regulator cover
Fass Titanium 125 with 5/8 draw tube
BTL is offline  
post #8 of 10 Old 12-31-2019, 04:37 PM Thread Starter
Powerstroke.org Rookie
 
Join Date: Dec 2019
Posts: 7
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Tow/Haul

Thanks for all your help. I finally got the dealership to acknowledge that my truck should have compression braking and they will take care of it.
They will call Ford this week to get authorization for the repairs.

BIG THANKS!!!!
ZMANN and BTL like this.
Heater Guy is offline  
post #9 of 10 Old 01-17-2020, 01:53 PM Thread Starter
Powerstroke.org Rookie
 
Join Date: Dec 2019
Posts: 7
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
The dealership agreed to do a road test with computer and special software provided for Ford. They thought the problem may be in the Coast Clutch.

My conversation yesterday with your tech didn't address the problem even after a 1/4 tank of diesel to accomplish the test.
All the dealership would say is the truck has compression braking (they were non committal about if he tested it as described below). Which I asked them to do.

The following is the way the 5R110W should work in haul/tow mode. All three transmissions have worked this way. The haul/tow mode stopped working after the dealership repaired?????? it on 7 Nov 2019:

Going down a grade (loaded or unloaded) while in drive and haul/tow mode.

1. Step on brake (it down shifts into a lower gear).
Take your foot off the brake
It stays in that lower gear.

2. Step on the brake again (It down shifts into an additional lower gear).
Take your foot off the brake
It stays in that 2nd lower gear.

3. Step on the brake again (It down shifts into an additional lower gear).
Take your foot off the brake
It stays in that 3rd lower gear.

All the time the brakes are not being used, only compression braking.

Accelerate to get the transmission to shift up into drive.

I talked to the Ford Powertrain Assistance Center. They gave me a case number and suggested that the vehicle be taken to a different dealer for repair.

Any other suggestions? I sure miss the compression braking.
Heater Guy is offline  
post #10 of 10 Old 01-17-2020, 02:19 PM
Member
 
Hblick48's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 63
Thanks: 16
Thanked 9 Times in 9 Posts
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Quoted: 16 Post(s)
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heater Guy View Post
The dealership agreed to do a road test with computer and special software provided for Ford. They thought the problem may be in the Coast Clutch.

My conversation yesterday with your tech didn't address the problem even after a 1/4 tank of diesel to accomplish the test.
All the dealership would say is the truck has compression braking (they were non committal about if he tested it as described below). Which I asked them to do.

The following is the way the 5R110W should work in haul/tow mode. All three transmissions have worked this way. The haul/tow mode stopped working after the dealership repaired?????? it on 7 Nov 2019:

Going down a grade (loaded or unloaded) while in drive and haul/tow mode.

1. Step on brake (it down shifts into a lower gear).
Take your foot off the brake
It stays in that lower gear.

2. Step on the brake again (It down shifts into an additional lower gear).
Take your foot off the brake
It stays in that 2nd lower gear.

3. Step on the brake again (It down shifts into an additional lower gear).
Take your foot off the brake
It stays in that 3rd lower gear.

All the time the brakes are not being used, only compression braking.

Accelerate to get the transmission to shift up into drive.

I talked to the Ford Powertrain Assistance Center. They gave me a case number and suggested that the vehicle be taken to a different dealer for repair.

Any other suggestions? I sure miss the compression braking.
That is exactly how mine worked before the transmission rebuild, and still the way it works after the rebuild.

Couldn't drive over mountain ranges without. Doing the I -5 Grapevine on Wednesday!

Retired and on the go!
'05 F250 Powerstroke
'02 Montana 3280RL 5th Wheel
Hblick48 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Ford Powerstroke Diesel Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome