Long Cranking Everytime - Ford Powerstroke Diesel Forum
6.0L Problems Forum Having Trouble? Post here

 1Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 15 Old 08-11-2019, 10:12 PM Thread Starter
Powerstroke.org Rookie
 
Join Date: Aug 2019
Posts: 9
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Long Cranking Everytime

So I just picked up a new to me 2006 f250 with 115,000 miles on it. I drove it for a couple of weeks, drove it down too close to empty and accidentally ran it out of fuel.. Iím an idiot.. Anyway had AAA tow it to a shop fixed the no fuel issue and had the oil changed and itís like new. Except it takes longer to start in the morning now or really anytime during the day. I have plenty of power when driving on the road which leads me away from a high pressure oil leak, although Iím not sure what else it could be.. any suggestions?
zmartin22 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 15 Old 08-13-2019, 07:28 PM Thread Starter
Powerstroke.org Rookie
 
Join Date: Aug 2019
Posts: 9
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
An update on this.. I parked the truck for maybe 5 to 10 minutes when I went in the store and came out and it started right up quickly like it used to.. if I leave it for 30 minutes then itís like Iím cold starting it in the morning. Any thoughts on this? Could it be oil change related or something else? FICM is reading 48 volts consistently so I donít think itís that.. Iím just confused with whatís going on
zmartin22 is offline  
post #3 of 15 Old 08-17-2019, 11:18 AM Thread Starter
Powerstroke.org Rookie
 
Join Date: Aug 2019
Posts: 9
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Ok another update.. Took it to the dealership to take care of something else and had them run a diag on it. It came back with a high ICP pressure at idle. I don't remember the exact code of it, but he said that was their main concern. This seems like it may be leading them in the wrong direction because I have a tuner on the truck and I've read that it will spoof the electrical readout of the ICP so that it can run hotter. They were not able to find anything else wrong with it, and there were no other codes that came up. Does anyone have any thoughts or input on this? I don't want them to tear into the truck and dump a ton of money if this is just something that won't go away or is the new normal.. They are leaning towards injectors but I don't feel like that could be the case because its running well.. Really stumped.
zmartin22 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #4 of 15 Old 08-17-2019, 12:58 PM
Serving Our Country!
 
ChrisSki's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 3,314
Thanks: 122
Thanked 290 Times in 288 Posts
Mentioned: 63 Post(s)
Quoted: 551 Post(s)
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
FICM should be 48 consistent, not dipping a bit, for KOEO, starting, and KOER.

What is the ICP and IPR on the long start? Using the monitor is about all you can easily do except the bubble test.

2005 F250, 189,000 Miles
Bullet Proof HD Oil Cooler w/ Cold Weather Kit, Bullet Proof EGR, Bulletproof Water Pump, 7.3 Fan Clutch
Airlift 5k Airbags and Wireless Air
Edge CTS w/ EGT probe and Fuel Pressure Sensor.
15 MPG slick; 10 MPG towing 11k fifth wheel
Ravelco

6.0 Flush Procedure:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


Good 6.0 Reading:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
ChrisSki is offline  
post #5 of 15 Old 08-17-2019, 02:15 PM Thread Starter
Powerstroke.org Rookie
 
Join Date: Aug 2019
Posts: 9
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisSki View Post
FICM should be 48 consistent, not dipping a bit, for KOEO, starting, and KOER.

What is the ICP and IPR on the long start? Using the monitor is about all you can easily do except the bubble test.
The FICM only occasionally dips to 47.5 or 48.5 but not that often.. The ICP from what I monitor goes to 30, 60 and then cranks so I know it reaches the 500psi minimum on it. I would have to check on the IPR.. I had the oil and fuel filters changed when I had it in the shop, could that be a potential cause? If I cycle the key on multiple times before I start it and let the glowplugs run their cycle, it tends to start like it used to. I read somewhere that a bad seal on the secondary fuel filter with the o ring could lead to a low fuel pressure situation that would take it longer to start, but there are no codes for low fuel pressure.. Is that worth checking out? I will take a video tomorrow morning on the IPR and ICP to compare on starting it.

I plan on going to get new fuel filters and pulling the secondary to see if the o ring was replaced or if they decided to leave the old one on later tonight..
zmartin22 is offline  
post #6 of 15 Old 08-17-2019, 03:57 PM
Serving Our Country!
 
ChrisSki's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 3,314
Thanks: 122
Thanked 290 Times in 288 Posts
Mentioned: 63 Post(s)
Quoted: 551 Post(s)
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Ficm is fine.

What youre looking at for ICP on the no start is less than 500 psi while cranking which means a high pressure iil problem. At 85% ipr, the valve is pushing as much hpop as it can, so start should be 85%.

Fuel pressure has no sensor. You'd need to physically attach one to get a reading. As far as going straight to nrw fuel filters, that's a $50 guess, but looking at it is free.

If you're tuned, you can ask the last shop if they returned it to stock. I've had a shop flash my truck when they changed the ficm.
Hydro likes this.

2005 F250, 189,000 Miles
Bullet Proof HD Oil Cooler w/ Cold Weather Kit, Bullet Proof EGR, Bulletproof Water Pump, 7.3 Fan Clutch
Airlift 5k Airbags and Wireless Air
Edge CTS w/ EGT probe and Fuel Pressure Sensor.
15 MPG slick; 10 MPG towing 11k fifth wheel
Ravelco

6.0 Flush Procedure:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


Good 6.0 Reading:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
ChrisSki is offline  
post #7 of 15 Old 08-17-2019, 05:26 PM
Premium Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Southern Indiana
Posts: 1,569
Thanks: 3
Thanked 140 Times in 136 Posts
Mentioned: 45 Post(s)
Quoted: 339 Post(s)
Garage
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Since you say cycling the key several times seems to help, I would suggest looking at the orings on the fuel filter cap's -- be sure to grease the oring so it doesn't try to roll when tightening the cap -- air 'can' leak into the filter when the engine is off, but fuel should also leak at the threads -- that would charge a bubble of air into the system when you try to start, cycling the key would 'bleed' some of the air back to the tank thru the small bleeder in the filter base

When you remove the upper filter cap, the housing should remain a little more than half way full -- this proves the anti drainback valve
Have a helper turn the key with the upper filter cap off -- the housing should fill in 2-3 seconds -- this proves pump flow

Still need a pressure gauge as @ChrisSki mentioned -- some use a filter cap with a tapped hole, there is a factory test port in the left front corner of the filter base, you need a metric fitting

In my defense, I was unsupervised
.
2006 F250 Lariat FX4 cclb
Torque Pro and OBDLink MX bluetooth monitor
General note:
For all those wanting a premium silicone sealer Kubota 70000-73764 is the best your gonna find. This is a hybrid gray silicone that uses solvent rather than acid to start the curing reaction, this makes it safe for aluminum and and any surface that involves coolant.
Hydro is offline  
post #8 of 15 Old 08-18-2019, 09:45 AM Thread Starter
Powerstroke.org Rookie
 
Join Date: Aug 2019
Posts: 9
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hydro View Post
Since you say cycling the key several times seems to help, I would suggest looking at the orings on the fuel filter cap's -- be sure to grease the oring so it doesn't try to roll when tightening the cap -- air 'can' leak into the filter when the engine is off, but fuel should also leak at the threads -- that would charge a bubble of air into the system when you try to start, cycling the key would 'bleed' some of the air back to the tank thru the small bleeder in the filter base

When you remove the upper filter cap, the housing should remain a little more than half way full -- this proves the anti drainback valve
Have a helper turn the key with the upper filter cap off -- the housing should fill in 2-3 seconds -- this proves pump flow

Still need a pressure gauge as @ChrisSki mentioned -- some use a filter cap with a tapped hole, there is a factory test port in the left front corner of the filter base, you need a metric fitting
I picked up new filters but have not installed them yet just in case thats not the problem. I will take a look at them today in a while once it stops raining. When I am KOEO, the fuel pump stays on for what seems like 20-30 seconds before it shutsoff so I would assume that would mean that it should be the issue, but obviously checking it would confirm that. I will look into the pressure gauge, I knew that I would need to attach a gauge but the diagnosis from the shop that did the oil change stated that it was low fuel pressure so my guess is they tested it like you guys are saying..

I also took video of my tuner gauges this morning on a cold start and on the other starts so far during the day.. ICP was reading pretty high around the mid 950 mark but started to drop once it was warming up.. I am assuming this is normal with the oil warming up and the tune tricking the PCM with the pressure so it performs better? It dopped to 630 or so at idle once I drove it down the street. It was about 70 degrees this morning when I started it up. I will update once I have a chance to look at the filters.
zmartin22 is offline  
post #9 of 15 Old 08-18-2019, 10:49 AM
Serving Our Country!
 
ChrisSki's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 3,314
Thanks: 122
Thanked 290 Times in 288 Posts
Mentioned: 63 Post(s)
Quoted: 551 Post(s)
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
If the shop said fuel pressure, here's a video of full diagnosis:
About the only easy thing to do after what you and hydro mentioned is the Blue Spring upgrade for the upper fuel bowl, and that costs about $75. If it is low pressure, that can cause the injectors taking more fuel than the fuel pump can provide and ruin the injectors. If you watch the video, IMO full diagnosis may be at a point I would think about bringing it to a good diesel shop that knows 8.0s versus buying a special tool. If the shop you brought it to is a diesel shop with 6.0s parked out front and reviews are good, than that could be the place.

2005 F250, 189,000 Miles
Bullet Proof HD Oil Cooler w/ Cold Weather Kit, Bullet Proof EGR, Bulletproof Water Pump, 7.3 Fan Clutch
Airlift 5k Airbags and Wireless Air
Edge CTS w/ EGT probe and Fuel Pressure Sensor.
15 MPG slick; 10 MPG towing 11k fifth wheel
Ravelco

6.0 Flush Procedure:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


Good 6.0 Reading:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
ChrisSki is offline  
post #10 of 15 Old 08-18-2019, 10:58 AM Thread Starter
Powerstroke.org Rookie
 
Join Date: Aug 2019
Posts: 9
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisSki View Post
If the shop said fuel pressure, here's a video of full diagnosis:

About the only easy thing to do after what you and hydro mentioned is the Blue Spring upgrade for the upper fuel bowl, and that costs about $75. If it is low pressure, that can cause the injectors taking more fuel than the fuel pump can provide and ruin the injectors. If you watch the video, IMO full diagnosis may be at a point I would think about bringing it to a good diesel shop that knows 8.0s versus buying a special tool. If the shop you brought it to is a diesel shop with 6.0s parked out front and reviews are good, than that could be the place.
I apologize, I am not doing the best job of explaining things.. When I had it towed to the shop after it stalled, they said it was low fuel pressure because I had run it out of fuel with the gauge being inaccurate.. Different worry. The previous owner had the blue spring upgrade installed but there is no issue with low fuel pressure anymore since I filled up the tank again. I appreciate the suggestion and if it turns out that it is not the fuel filters causing it, then I will definitely have them run a fuel pressure test on it at the shop.
zmartin22 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Ford Powerstroke Diesel Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome