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-   -   PHP tunes, towing with a 6.0? (https://www.powerstroke.org/forum/6-0l-performance-parts-discussion/1156322-php-tunes-towing-6-0-a.html)

Gaius 08-14-2016 01:08 PM

PHP tunes, towing with a 6.0?
 
On my 7.3 my favorite tunes were the PHP tunes. The smoothest power application, least smoke, and all of the tunes drove the same, just with different top end power levels. WHiler towing a pass or big hill, I could just dial back the tune to suit the hill so I didn;t have to drive by EGT. I could click it down to Daily or Tow, and hold it floored, and EGTs wouldn't get past 1200. I would always forget and be hitting 1300+ if I forgot to dial the tune back.

With my 6.0 now (stock except cat delete), I'm going to try PHP again. However, without being able to change tunes on the fly, I'm just going to have the PCM flashed.

For those running PHP tunes, what tunes have you found that are right at max EGT while pulling full throttle? I dont need race or anything, just a nice daily tune that doesn't put so much fuel down.

I'm thinking 20hp to be safe, but maybe 40hp tune. Any experiences? Thanks!

junior125 08-14-2016 01:12 PM

how much weight are you going to be pulling?

Gaius 08-14-2016 01:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by junior125 (Post 13967146)
how much weight are you going to be pulling?

With the camper and Jeep on a trailer, I weigh almost 19k combined.

junior125 08-14-2016 01:24 PM

you could probably get away with 40hp but to be safe I would do 20hp

@Chatham036 that a reasonable recommendation?

ZMANN 08-14-2016 01:27 PM

that's a lot of weight for added fuel if your hitting hills

any tow tune I have can spike EGT's on hills so I have to back off. stock i am fine but lack the tune benefits like jake brake and egr off ETC

i am about ready to order from PHP
i was going to get a heavy Tow and medium tow plus a street tune

Gaius 08-14-2016 01:32 PM

Does the mild tunes wake up the 6.0 like the 7.3? Even the mildest tunes wake up the pedal response on the 7.3, but I know the 6.0 is already 325 HP and has pretty great response already in comparison.



ZMANN, interesting you can hit high EGTs with tow tunes. On my old truck, PHP, TW, DP, and Powerstruck's tow tunes never broke 1200. The 6.0 must be more "on the edge" of power from the factory, huh?

ZMANN 08-14-2016 01:38 PM

you may want to look into PHP FICM tunes http://store.gopowerhungry.com/en/pe...rogrammer.html

then you can pick a safe Tow tune and adjust the FICM tune HP

this also has the benefit of not clearing the adaptive tables in the tranny like switching a PCM tune does

Gaius 08-14-2016 01:55 PM

I was talking to them about the FICM tuning. I was planning on trying that later. I hear the 40 is a good FOCM tune, but I also hear that any of the FICM tunes tend to run higher EGTs. Be nice to have the 80 for daily driving though.

Does the "Econ" FICM tune run similar to stock? How long does it take to change FICM tunes?

ZMANN 08-14-2016 02:01 PM

the good thing is FICM tunes takes less than 4 minutes ( if i had to guess )

and the fuel MPG increase will pay for itself in my case (if i paid for fuel )

Gadgetguru 08-14-2016 02:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaius (Post 13967162)
With the camper and Jeep on a trailer, I weigh almost 19k combined.

19k total including the truck I'm assuming? Really not that heavy considering my loaded 5er is 14 - 15k and the truck is 8500+ pounds. There are guys pulling much more than that. I use PHPs 65 tow tune with my setup and EGTs max in the 1100's.

But you are stock so...

Nexus 6P with Android N via Tapatalk

Gaius 08-14-2016 03:43 PM

I didn't say it was all that heavy. Or light. I just want the most fuel that'l allow me to get right against the EGT max.




Zmann, would you get a PCM tune first, or the FICM tune first? I deleted my EGR, but have no light on, so I'm not sure I need to turn off the EGR if the FICM will be more beneficial.

ZMANN 08-14-2016 03:55 PM

probably do the PCM tuner and tunes first the FICM tuner is just gravy IMO and will let you fine tune quick for varied loads

but the base PCM tune can help with shifting / converter / braking just tell PHP you are planing to get a FICM tuner when you order your tunes

but like I said the FICM tuner seems to net everyone better MPG i am about 2-4 depending on what FICM level and tune I use

plus I idle a lot while on the phone so exact gains are hard to calculate

michaelaiman 08-16-2016 04:33 AM

Am I missing something? I didn't think PHP was doing custom SCT tunes anymore? I was gonna order some to compliment the PHP FICM tuner (a while back now) but then their website stated they were no longer offering it. I'm still rockin canned tunes

Master_Chase 08-16-2016 06:19 AM

Yes they are they even had a really good sale a while back and created a thread on here to mention it.

Heavy_GD 08-16-2016 06:24 AM

488 Attachment(s)

Chatham036 08-16-2016 09:54 AM

I love my PHP tunes for towing as well as performance and extreme settings.

For some weird reason, PHP tunes make my truck drive exactly the way I feel it should with plenty of power at my disposal :P

Master_Chase 08-16-2016 11:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chatham036 (Post 13977153)
I love my PHP tunes for towing as well as performance and extreme settings.

For some weird reason, PHP tunes make my truck drive exactly the way I feel it should with plenty of power at my disposal :P

For some reason, I think you may be biased. >:)

michaelaiman 08-16-2016 05:10 PM

Do the PHP tunes compliment the PHP FICM tunes in any way over any of the other tuners out there?

Gaius 08-16-2016 07:58 PM

k
Quote:

Originally Posted by Chatham036 (Post 13977153)
I love my PHP tunes for towing as well as performance and extreme settings.

For some weird reason, PHP tunes make my truck drive exactly the way I feel it should with plenty of power at my disposal :P


If you could only pick one tune to daily and tow with (I'm at 19k lbs combined), which tune would you recommend? Auto trans.

Thanks!

Chatham036 08-17-2016 06:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaius (Post 13981121)
k


If you could only pick one tune to daily and tow with (I'm at 19k lbs combined), which tune would you recommend? Auto trans.

Thanks!

My personal opinion, I would go with the 140x for daily and 25 tow when you are hooked to the trailer.

If you feel the 140 might be a little much for you, a lot of people really enjoy our 100 hp performance tune. It is a little more tame than the 140 while still giving you a good step up in power.

Chatham036 08-17-2016 06:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by michaelaiman (Post 13979561)
Do the PHP tunes compliment the PHP FICM tunes in any way over any of the other tuners out there?

It varies per tuner. I have heard feedback from customers that Gearhead's PCM tunes can develop drivability issues when paired with FICM tunes.

Other tuners like Innovative, TSD, vivian, wildman, Windrunner, etc. have no issues with the combination.

G8orFord 08-17-2016 06:39 AM

I really wish I'd have gotten the 140x instead of the 100hp Performance when I got my 3 pack. It's a little too tame for me. LOL

Gaius 08-17-2016 07:09 AM

I guess I may be wholly underwhelmed if I just get a PCM flash with a 25 hp tune. Maybe I should skip the FICM tune and just get the SCT.

So 25 tow with camper and trailer
140x unloaded.

What about a third one for just the camper? I weigh 11.5k total with it, same as towing about 3000-4000k lbs. Maybe a 65 hp tune?


Thanks all for the info. Money is tight, and on the last 7.3 I went through 3 chips, and 4 brands of tuners.... :)

G8orFord 08-17-2016 07:28 AM

I towed 6-7k with four adults in the truck and another 5-6 hundred pounds in the back in the hills of North Alabama on the 65hp tow with no real issue. EGTs stayed fine as long as I didn't push it too much on grades in O/D. This was in 100+ degree heat and humidity.

hansel 08-17-2016 08:45 AM

I have a 7.3 and what helps keep the EGT's down is dropping down in gear's

ZMANN 08-17-2016 09:01 AM

Less go pedal helps lower EGT
@Chatham036 what issues have been reported with Gearhead and PHP FICM tunes ?
I have both buy have not loaded them simultaneously

And the real question. When is the next 6.0 tune sale i still want a 4 pack and a side of fries ;-)

6.0vanman 08-17-2016 04:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chatham036 (Post 13982593)
It varies per tuner. I have heard feedback from customers that Gearhead's PCM tunes can develop drivability issues when paired with FICM tunes.

Other tuners like Innovative, TSD, vivian, wildman, Windrunner, etc. have no issues with the combination.

What does that mean? I presume tranny shift points but I'm having some issues with a Gearhead tune so am curious. That, and you probably didn't intend it that way but it comes across as a low blow given that Gearhead has been doing PCM tuning longer that about anybody other than Eric at IDP or possibly PHP? That's my understanding anyway.

I have read that Matt doesn't like FICM tuning all that much and recommends the economy PHP tune if anything and also that he uses the VXCF5 strategy whereas other tuners seem to favor the VXCF9 strategy. Anyhow, the assertion that Gearhead tunes don't pair well with FICM tuning could use some more clarification.

323flint 08-17-2016 05:03 PM

I no when I bought a ficm tuner just made my truck smoky and higher egts, so I just sold it.

junior125 08-17-2016 05:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 6.0vanman (Post 13985593)
What does that mean? I presume tranny shift points but I'm having some issues with a Gearhead tune so am curious. That, and you probably didn't intend it that way but it comes across as a low blow given that Gearhead has been doing PCM tuning longer that about anybody other than Eric at IDP or possibly PHP? That's my understanding anyway.

I have read that Matt doesn't like FICM tuning all that much and recommends the economy PHP tune if anything and also that he uses the VXCF5 strategy whereas other tuners seem to favor the VXCF9 strategy. Anyhow, the assertion that Gearhead tunes don't pair well with FICM tuning could use some more clarification.

Pretty confident Matt learned from Bill @php

323flint 08-17-2016 05:21 PM

Does anyone run elite diesel tunes any more, I bought my first tunes from them back in 2008

6.0vanman 08-17-2016 05:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by junior125 (Post 13985873)
Pretty confident Matt learned from Bill @php

And they both learned from Eric at IDP who I believe wrote the original canned tunes on the SCT?

Anyhow, besides the point. If the FICM tune causes driveability issues with a PCM tune I want to know since I'm shopping for tunes. Chathams post was the first I've read that suggests they don't play nice. But only those from one vendor.

My impression is that a FICM tune makes it harder for the writer of the PCM tune to adjust parameters. Perhaps a discussion for another thread but my understanding is a FICM tune has all the control over the fueling. With a PCM tune the writer is trying to "tune around" the FICM by fooling the ICP sensor.

Chatham036 08-23-2016 07:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 6.0vanman (Post 13985593)
What does that mean? I presume tranny shift points but I'm having some issues with a Gearhead tune so am curious. That, and you probably didn't intend it that way but it comes across as a low blow given that Gearhead has been doing PCM tuning longer that about anybody other than Eric at IDP or possibly PHP? That's my understanding anyway.

I have read that Matt doesn't like FICM tuning all that much and recommends the economy PHP tune if anything and also that he uses the VXCF5 strategy whereas other tuners seem to favor the VXCF9 strategy. Anyhow, the assertion that Gearhead tunes don't pair well with FICM tuning could use some more clarification.

It isnt a low blow. I have had this discussion with Matt a couple times. He is aware of the conflicts with his tunes and our FICM tunes.
We have a great relationship with Matt and Larz, I dont have a bad thing to say about either of them.

There is a thread on another forum where myself, Bill, Matt, and Eric(IDP) all discuss FICM tuning in the relation to PCM tuning.
I dont believe I can link the page for you to read the thread, but the thread title is under "**NEW** Power Hungry Insight PRO" on the other PowerStroke forum. The discussion really kicks up on page 2.

Quote:

Originally Posted by junior125 (Post 13985873)
Pretty confident Matt learned from Bill @php

:haha:

I cant definitively say whether this is true or not because I do not know. We do work together frequently on a few different projects. Both giving and receiving of information.
Bill has been doing this much longer for what ever that is worth.

Quote:

Originally Posted by 6.0vanman (Post 13985993)
And they both learned from Eric at IDP who I believe wrote the original canned tunes on the SCT?

This is completely false. Bill was tuning powerstrokes before the 6.0 powerstroke was even a wet dream in the ford engineer's head. Considerably before the SCT you are referring to was even a company.

There is a reason many refer to Bill as the "Godfather of PowerStroke Tuning"

ASEMechanic 08-23-2016 11:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 6.0vanman (Post 13985993)
And they both learned from Eric at IDP who I believe wrote the original canned tunes on the SCT?

That is wholly, completely, and absolutely incorrect. :doh: Eric does his own tuning. I do my own tuning. And this is no disrespect to Eric. He's a good guy and I have nothing bad to say about him or his work. And this is also not jumping on you. This is simply a clarification.

For further clarification, I've been tuning the Ford Powerstroke for almost 20 years, starting with Superchips back in 1997 with the 7.3L. Nearly every 7.3L tune on the market (regardless of the vendor) is based on the tunes created while I worked at Superchips. In fact, many of the binaries STILL have the Superchips copyright in them, which I put there.

As for the 6.0L - In 2004 when I when to work for Edge, we started development on the 6.0L tuning. At this time, the ONLY company doing FICM tuning was Diablo. Everyone else was doing ECM tuning. For whatever reason, Diablo dropped the FICM tuning from their programmers and then nobody was offering FICM tuning for quite some time. In 2007, Edge and Superchips were working together on some different things and I was working with Mike Mikos and some projects. One of the things we discovered was that putting the early AKZ2AH10 FICM programs in the later trucks made them haul *** and dramatically increased the throttle response. We initially started offering FICM "rollbacks" as an immediate solution to 1) resolve the poor drivability of the later FICM strategies and 2) get rid of the Inductive Heating that was killing the FICMs. We've been doing this since 2007 and were the first to offer this type of tuning anywhere... Even before IDP was set up to offer FICM tuning.

Because many tuners spoof the ICP reading to artificially raise the pulsewidth in the FICM, some ECM tunes may see some incompatibility or drivability issues when running our FICM tunes. This is because the FICM generates a pulsewidth value based on the ICP pressure received from the ECM. If the ICP value is already artificially low and then is run through a FICM tune where the pulsewidth tables are modified, unpredictable results can occur. This is a common conflict with our FICM tunes and Eric's ECM tunes. Again, this is not to say that there is anything wrong with Eric's tunes... Many folks are very happy with how his tunes run. It's also not to say that there is a fault our FICM tunes. Many folks are happy with those as well. It's just two tuning styles that simply are not compatible together.

All of this has eventually lead to the creation of Hybrid FICM tunes that maintain inductive heating (the mild, low-current version) and have the operational functions of the early FICM strategies. This provides the drivability and performance of the early strategies while alleviating the cold-start issues seen when using the stock early FICM strategies. We are even able to combine these with up to 100 HP power levels as well as custom modifications for modified injectors. Power Hungry is the only company that does this, and we certainly did not learn this from anyone else. We are not just "tuners", we are engineers. We don't copy, we create. We can accomplish things that very few other companies can offer. Even Ford...

This may seem like a stupid thing to argue about, but it's a matter of principle to me that people understand that we develop our own stuff... Hardware, software, tuning, all of it. We've worked hard to build our reputation, and I just like to see people get the facts straight.

Take care.

Bill

G8orFord 08-23-2016 12:02 PM

I think it's awesome that you took time out of your day to clarify this and "speak to the people".
Big fan of you, Jay and PHP in general.

:clap::clap::clap:
:yourock:

Chatham036 08-23-2016 12:41 PM


G8orFord 08-23-2016 12:43 PM

^^^:hehe: Perfect.

6.0vanman 08-23-2016 01:23 PM

Wow, thanks guys. That's good beta and thanks for setting the record straight. The tuning end of things has always been a bit of a mystery to me and tuners in general are guarded about what's in their magic sauce. I've googled and read a gazillion tuning threads.

I've got the Atlas40 that Ed loaded when he rebuilt my FICM. I don't notice much except extra heat across the board when stacked with a PCM tune. I've now tried tunes on my van from three of the major players:
IDP: economy, tow, and Xtreme Street
TSD: SPD with modified fueling
Gearhead: SRL

I'm waiting on a revision from Gearhead but the shifting is screwy. I raised the RPM limiter to 4500 but that didn't make a difference so wasn't sure if that was the drivability issue that Chatham was referring to. Chris couldn't get his SPD tune to work with my van. Either the odom and speedo wouldn't work or the cruise control was off. Eric's tunes run great and I really have no complaints except the power comes on super quick in the Xstreet tune and it's a bit smokey unless I really ease into it gently. Oddly, the IDP economy tune runs hotter than the Xstreet and the mileage isn't as good. The shifting is firm and crisp.

So, still searching for the cat's meaow for a studded van with a 6.0 given the smaller intercooler and heat limitations. I don't need gobs of power but the KCturbo is a bit laggy getting a 10,000lb 4x4 van moving from a dead start. Or, when off-road and I need to goose it over an obstacle. I hope I haven't hijacked the thread with my own problems but hopefully this info is of informative to all those interested in the quirks of tuning.

Perhaps it's time to try PHP!

G8orFord 08-23-2016 06:03 PM

Quote:

Perhaps it's time to try PHP!
Perhaps it is...
I can all but guarantee you won't be disappointed.

Matt's SRL has always shifted a little funny on my truck. Most of the time it would be spot on, but occasionally it would just freak out and stack or fall out of gear altogether. I rarely run it anymore for this reason. I don't have SPD, but MPD from TSD runs very well with my Atlas 40, 80 and Hercules FICM tunes. The only complaint I have with MPD is the light switch coming off cruise control and that is something I can live with.

PHPs 100hp Performance tune ran flawlessly and shifted great, but didn't quite have the oommph of MPD or SRL so I'm getting their 140x to give it a try. I'm betting it will be my goto tune now.

I haven't had any heat issues with any of these combinations or the tow tunes I have from Gearhead and PHP, but I'm in a truck. I know the vans have there own problems too.

ZMANN 08-23-2016 06:10 PM

I demand another PHP tune sale









please ;-)

j.flow 08-23-2016 06:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZMANN (Post 14010177)
I demand another PHP tune sale









please ;-)

I second this notion


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