No Start when hot - Ford Powerstroke Diesel Forum
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post #1 of 17 Old 09-24-2016, 01:19 PM Thread Starter
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Exclamation No Start when hot

Ive been chasing a no start when hot for longer than id like to admit. I dont know the full history of the truck (late 2004 190K miles) as a buddy just bought it from an auction. He brought it to me with #5 and #8 needing injectors. I changed those out along with an oil cooler and a few other maintenance items. Oil cooler screen was the dirtiest ive ever seen but it wasn't broken as most are. I also pulled the IPR and the screen looked good.

I get the truck back together, cranks up sounds good...runs good...out for a test drive. Get back to the house turn the truck off and immediately try to crank it back up but it doesn't start. Gauge on the dash is moving so i know the LPO is good. AE shows 300psi ICP 85% IPR-i dont recall the voltages right now.

Now im thinking HPO leak even though new standpipes and dummy plugs were installed when i did the injectors. I proceed to do an air test using the ICP port and shortly after hear a air leak on the passenger side. Super, i know where its at quick fix....orrrr not. Pulled the valve cover off applied air, sounds like its coming from the #5 injector area. Pulled off the oil rail replaced the ball cup orings, reinstall put everything back together drive it come home turn off...wont crank again..air test again. Leak still coming from the same area pull the rail back off remove the ball cup i find a hair line crack in the ball cup area.

Ordered a reman oil rail as a new one from ford is 600ish. Reman oil rail has new orings and bostech ball cups. Installed the new rail put it all back together go test drive, come home turn it off try to crank it back up....Nope...icp 300ish IPR 85.

Air test again #5 area sealed but now i see oil coming from the injector oil exhaust ports on cyl 1,3,7. What the heck is this, i havnt seen this before and have a pretty decent number of 6.0s under my belt. I pulled the oil rail and use a rubber tip air blower into the injector and sure enough 1,3,7 air is coming out of the inj exhaust ports. #5 new injector no leak.

Did some reading, could be spool valves, FICM, injector harness. I Ohm out the injector harness all the pins on each plug read the same so i feel the harness is OK.FICM is a solid 48V. That leaves the injector spool valves. I ohm out each injector and they all check out comparing the results to a new ford injector. I took the spool valve assembly apart per youtube video and cleaned it with the suggested 600grit sand paper. Before i assembled the injector i installed the spool valve, applied air to the oil inlet and manually cycled the spool valve using my fingers it seems to work as it should. Coils installed and injectors installed back in the truck.

Truck again cranks up as it should runs great on the test drive no miss or hickup....back home turn it off and try to start back up....uh uh not gonna happen. Grrrr what the heck? I havnt done an air test after the test drive as i needed to step away but im still seeing 300ish psi and 85% ipr.

In any of the cases if i let the truck sit for 30 minutes it will crank back up but still not as it should. Each test drive was 15-20 miles so i know most of the air was bled out of the system.

What to do next?? I have a spare IPR im going to try even though the current one checks out ok. Maybe i just need to replace all of the injectors?
Ive read that the FICM should keep the spool valve closed when the truck isnt running. This doesnt seem to be the case but only on these 3 injectors. Heck the other side may be the same way.

If you made it this far thanks for reading! Ideas or experiences welcomed! Thanks!
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post #2 of 17 Old 09-25-2016, 09:08 AM Thread Starter
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Back together this morning, changed the IPR to my spare...test drive went smooth as normal.
Turn off and attempt to crank back up AE shows 350-360psi (voltage .63) desired 650psi 85% ipr valve.

Is there a sure fire way to test the HPOP?
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post #3 of 17 Old 09-26-2016, 04:56 AM
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Check the stand pipe on passenger side. Also, I've seen the branch tube loosen before, down where the torx fastener is. You sure it's not coming from either of those? They're pretty close to 5 injector. When you crank during no start, does the dash gauge come up?
Don't chase the injector exhaust ports. It is normal sometimes for them to be open when testing. If you cycle the key they will likely close.

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post #4 of 17 Old 09-26-2016, 10:14 AM
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Are you energizing the IPR when doing the air test?-mine kept showing leaks until I did- drove me crazy for days
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post #5 of 17 Old 09-26-2016, 04:47 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kaya View Post
Check the stand pipe on passenger side. Also, I've seen the branch tube loosen before, down where the torx fastener is. You sure it's not coming from either of those? They're pretty close to 5 injector. When you crank during no start, does the dash gauge come up?
Don't chase the injector exhaust ports. It is normal sometimes for them to be open when testing. If you cycle the key they will likely close.
I actually removed the stand pipe and plugged the port with a extra dummy plug i have. Once i replaced the oil rail i dont hear a leak so much around #5 area. More so around 1,3,7. I went so far as to cycle the key with air on the rail to get the spool valves to move. After a few off/on with the key i was able to get all but #7 to seal. I think i may test drive again and pressure test on the drivers side. Its more of a PITA but maybe theres a bigger leak over there that im not able to hear since the passenger side is leaking so much before the air is able to push it out the drivers side. I really hope its not a branch tube.
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post #6 of 17 Old 09-26-2016, 04:49 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by derrickhand300 View Post
Are you energizing the IPR when doing the air test?-mine kept showing leaks until I did- drove me crazy for days
Yes i did energize the IPR. I normally apply the air until i hear the air leaking at the IPR then activate it so i can hear the noise difference.
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post #7 of 17 Old 09-26-2016, 07:19 PM
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When you crank during no start, does oil gauge rise eventually?

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post #8 of 17 Old 09-27-2016, 04:40 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kaya View Post
When you crank during no start, does oil gauge rise eventually?
Sorry i overlooked this question the first time. Yes the low pressure gauge comes up almost immediately when i start cranking.
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post #9 of 17 Old 09-27-2016, 05:17 PM
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Ohhhh. Well. When you drive, at operating temp, monitor your icp desired, icp actual, and ipr command while wot up an incline, preferably for at least 100 yards. Does icp actual meet desired? Does ipr hit 85%?

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post #10 of 17 Old 09-28-2016, 04:39 PM Thread Starter
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So apparently my AE has quit. I was monitering a few PID's and then they started dropping off 1 at a time until they all quit. I tried reconnecting and rebooting the computer multiple times but no good. I keep getting a communication error. Contacted AE and find out "Were chasing that issue and dont yet have a fix". Great now my diag equipment is crap.

I crank up the truck to get it warm, fires right up cold. I drove it until the oil temp got to 180*. Since the AE quit i had to use the torque app, unfortunantly the torque app doesn't show desired IPR. I was able to get one wide open run in, obviously i dont know what the desired was but the ICP peaked just below 3900psi at 85% ipr. The truck is strong and keeps pulling.

Get back home turn the truck off and try to crank- of course it didn't start. I pulled the drivers side valve cover and started the air test there. I have a pigtail that i use for IPR energizing. Turn the air on and probably 1-2 minutes the first leak comes from injector 4. I waited another minute didnt hear anything then turned it off and pulled the rail. If i apply air to the top of the #4 injector air comes out of the exhaust ports. This injector has unknown mileage along with #6. #2 and 8 are new. Injectors 2,6,and 8 did not leak air when i applied it.

I picked up a few used injectors from a buddy of mine to try out before i buy new ones. I found 1 that didnt leak and put it in the #4 hole then installed the oil rail back. Applied air again and left it on for a good 2 minutes then the passenger side started gurgling again. I called it for tonight it was getting dark. Now that ive done this i feel ok about the stand pipes and hpop area. It seems the leak is still only coming from the injector exhausts.
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