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Opinions Gooseneck Grain Trailer with a 6.4L F250

17K views 39 replies 14 participants last post by  '01SilverBullet 
#1 ·
New to the forum and new to the Powerstroke.

My current truck 2008 Ford F250 CC SB 3.55 gear ratio 10,000LB. GVWR package so it has factory overload leaf springs and the truck also has Firestone airbags installed. Factory camper package and brake controller.

Adding to the truck in the next few weeks; DPF Delete, EGR Delete, ARP Head Studs, Coolant Filter kit, AirDog liftpump with twin filters and lastly a Spartan tuner(friend has one so I just have to buy a second vin license). Maybe do a S&B intake kit and MPRB intercooler piping, maybe.

What I am looking at purchasing is a gravity dump grain trailer 400-450 bushels with twin 16,000 pound axels and 17.5" dual wheels on them. According to illinois this type of trailer is considered "farm implement" and I can run a gross trailer weight of 36,000 pounds. Trailer will be ruffly 18' long and just under 10' high. Empty weight under 5,000 pounds

Distance of travel will be 100ish miles loaded with Popcorn on flat central Illinois roads

Background information; Yes, we have a semi truck and trailer on the farm. Why do this, I guess because I like towing stuff, it will help out my family because a second semi truck and trailer doesn't make financial sense. My father farms and I help, but have a full time job on second shift. Trailer would pull a second duty as being a seed tender in the spring for our farm and maybe rent to a seed salesman.

I have drove a neighbors 6.0L Ford CC SB truck unknown gears with his 30' gooseneck and a gravity box chained down with 18,000 pounds of potash/dap loaded in it. Truck has studs, exhaust and an unknown tuner (he told the dealer he wanted more power and he is in 50s and doesn't pay care about brand). Truck handled the load really well, even going up a large hill in town.

My question to all those who have towed heavy are:

1) How bad is it going to be with my trucks 3.55 gears? should I just accpet that I need not go into overdrive and just cruise at say 50mph? I drive over a 100 miles a day for work and hate to regear the truck to 4.10s, but would a gear vendors overdrive help with pulling?

2) Will my transmission handle the weight? I drive like an old woman, slow and steady with lots of coasting.

3) Am I going to just tear the life out of my truck pulling 36,000 pounds say 10,000 loaded miles a year?

I greatly appriate any and all input and I have attached some pictures to give an idea of the trailer. Thanks in advance
 

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#2 ·
i have never pulled with ta 6.4 but i dont see any problem towing it.
i tow over 16000 with my 250 so pull away.
 
#3 ·
Thank you forthe reply. I havent pulled the trigger on purchasing the trailer yet.
 
#5 ·
IC, yes the truck has the camper package. Thank you.
 
#7 ·
I know its a lot of weight and I am in no way agrueing that, im asking will the truck hold up or am I just going to blow out the transmission, transfer case, u-joints, axle, leafsprings?
 
#8 ·
If there is anything that will get hurt in that scenario IS your tranny.

You have to ease up on it, esp. from take off (and I know you will with your driving habits).........but, oh man.........you ARE giving your tranny a breaking point test (and thats only cause of your gear ratio).

You were talkin about some engine mods. What about a deeper trans. pan & a better cooler (w/ electric fan).
It will help......................I think.

As far as a "gear vendors" go...........You defiantly DO NOT want that.

Gear vendors will split your gears even further (except for 4th speed, in your case the 3.55). Its meant to rev your engine LESS between gears, thus making it more efficient (this works ONLY when you re empty though).
 
#10 ·
Looking at the trailer it doesn't look like there is a terrible amount of pin weight. He might still be under his gross weight. But if they load the rear end a little more i would think there wouldn't be any problems.

Brett
 
#11 ·
Max trailer weight towing is 16,900 with a gooseneck for f250/350 SRW. GCWR is is only 23,500 for a 3:73:1 axle. There is no rating for a 3:55 gear. Those numbers are for the 6.4l, also the 6.8 gasser is a bit less. So, if they pull the scales on you, you will get fined. Regardless of farm use.

Your truck is listed weighing 6523lbs. What you want to pull, your at 42,523. Even an F550 is only rated legally at 33k GCWR.

If you were only going to do this once in awhile, like couple times a year for maybe 20 miles back roads going 10mph, you may squeak by. Doing it for 10k miles a year. That's an awfully big risk to take.

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#17 ·
A CCSB is listed at weighing only 6523??? Dang I weighed my truck Saturday night with the bed empty, 3/4 tank a fuel and me sitting in it was 8720 lbs. I do have a tool box in the bed with maybe a couple hundred pounds in it and there is nothing extra in the cab.
 
#12 ·
The trailer manufactor states their 450 bushel size trailer(what im looking at) fully loaded with corn puts ruffly 4,500 pounds on the pickup truck.

Thank you Brett
 
#13 · (Edited)
Hucorey

I read that this trailer under Illinois law is considered the same as a gravity wagon. This trailer doesnt require plates or registration. Its farm use, so i cant take it down the interstate. Im not a lawyer or a cop, just my interpretation of the law. I don't see how this trailer is any less weight legal than a gravity wagon that guys bumper pull with there truck.

I agree to disagree with your statement of this not being weight legal under farm use. My truck has Bronze Star plates which according to my DMV have no weight restriction. I am legal to pull this trailer up to 36,000 pounds and without a CD, I have read what the illinois law books say. It's no different than tractors pulling gravity wagons and NH3 nurse tanks. My only requirement is a yearly physical which I know 99% of the farmers and hired harvest help that pull wagons don't have, but I will get. Heck I will prolly get my CDL for kicks too since Illinois finally started taking Army training as a road test again.

Fred
 
#16 ·
Im just letting you know so in case you were to get in an accident and hurt/kill someone, you dont go to prison for 10yrs for involuntary manslaughter. That will be on your shoulders, not ours. The trailer has a gooseneck hitch, it is not a gravity wagon. There may be a loop hole the manufacturer found to sell it as a gavity wagon. But when you tag it you may find out otherwise to be able to go over 50mph.
Farmers that use bumper pull wagons also have to maintain speed under 20mph or something because a gravity cannot be tagged as road use anyway.

Just because you see other farmers pull gravity wagons with their trucks doesn't mean they should. Tractors don't have gvwr's because the manufactures don't design them for hauling and pulling ON road at high speeds.

You are correct that you can pull that weight without a cdl farm use, but your truck is not legally rated for it. GCVW. Gross Combined Vehicle Weight. Means truck and trailer combined Weight is limited to 23,500lbs.

Do yourself a favor and call IDOT to be sure. Each state is different. You may be able to haul that weight, but you may be limited to very low speeds.

Here is a good read.
http://www.thedieselstop.com/forums/f32/truth-about-gvwr-gcwr-towing-super-duty-trucks-217305/

Here's the one you want/need to read. Bottom left especially, and chart for what is considered tandem axle vs gain cart.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...4YG4BA&usg=AFQjCNHhbMb6FSekeQxEruqogN0QlIJEjA

It does say your good at 36k for the trailer, but doesn't specify speeds or vehicle type. The f250 still isn't rated to pull it even though we all know it can.

Nobodies really arguing. Just want you to be safe. Just because you can do something doesn't mean you should.

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#14 · (Edited)
Factory weight ratings have nothing to do with the law, they arent tested by any government agency. Its a manufactures suggested rating. They tried to get the truck companies to try a uniform testing and rate them based upon that, but of course that has never happened.
 
#18 ·
Today I spoke with IDOT or Illinois Department of Transportation and here is what I was told;

SMV (Slow Moving Vehicle) triangle sign must be present on the rear of the trailer atleast 4 feet off the ground and not to exceed 20 feet. Truck must have operating flashing hazard lights and my speed will be limited to 45mph. No interstate roadway travel with farm equipment, even though some farmers get away with it.

I am legal to to pull the trailer up to 36,000 pounds and this trailer is in fact safer that pulling the old wagons that have no brakes. Is the trailer really gonna ever weight 36,000, no because 450 bushels of corn at 60 pounds per bushel equals 27,000 pounds plus the trailers empty weight of 4,500 puts me at 31,500 pounds.


My general observation of the law in regards to farmers on the roadway is, if you are being curtious to other vehicles on the road and are driving safe, then they don't have time to jack around with you. I know this because I have been moving farm equipment since I was ruffly 10 years old. Now back to my questions of will the truck handle the load, not if it is legal which I believe that I have established that it is and so has hucorey with his second attachment that explains Implements of Husbandry are allowed to weigh up to 36,000 pounds.
 
#20 ·
each state is different in AL non of the farm trailers have plates. all they look at is tires and axles if they are rated for the load.
i have CDL and under farm the ADOT said that as longs as it was not over 13.5 tail we could tow it, even if you dont have cdl you can tow over 26k. so if the state says it is ok i dont see how you could be sued for being under the law?
 
#21 ·
My thoughts exactly! Thank you sir
 
#22 ·
Never towed with 6.7. But as already said. That's a pretty penny on a 250. But I agree, weak link is the transmission. Mines had 3 rebuilds. Never by me tho.
Last time I spoke to a transmission guru ($150/hr he better be). He told me that when loaded up, lock the trans in 1st with shifter then shift up until reach drive. Apparently this engages a lower gear than using the "drive" gear. I'm not a transmission expert but I do use that trick now and it does seem to pull off the line loaded a little easier? May just be imagination.
 
#23 ·
Well assuming your going to keep it at or under the 45mph limit you quoted the only weak link will be your transmission and that's due mainly to your rear end.
IIrc in tow/haul your truck won't lock the tc in 4th until after 45mph so your transmission will stay unlocked and its gonna get warm.

Depending on the outside temp and terrain the coolant and engine oil may get a bit warm as well. (Also due largely to your rear.)

If it were me, I would upgrade the trans pan to the magtec one make sure all the fluid is in good condition and is full synthetic. Including the rear diff.
I would even regear to 3:73 or more likely 4:10's.
(My truck has 3:73's and when I pull 15k I kinda wish for 4:10's)

Other than the above your truck will be fine.


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#24 ·
Completely forgot about the torque converter, looks like i will have to drive fast enough for 5ththe gear. Gonna take some trail and error on the speed required to keep the transmission happy. Its all flat land where im at in Illinois, no big hills to make the transmission scramble.

Side note I talked to mechanic who also has a 6.4L and he recommended i purchase a wastegate. Ordered that and all the other parts listed above today.
 
#25 ·
In Texas you total weight doesn't matter as long as your under 80k with a cdl with the overweight permit exceptions or 26k without a cdl. With it being farm use only you can adhere to different weight limits. What the weights and measure guys look at is axle weights. If your not over on your drive or steer axles on the truck and good on the trailer axles than there shouldn't be any problems. Weights and measures don't pull out or ask for your owners manual to see what ford recommends. That's not the law and is more for bragging rights than anything.

To the op, I grossed over 40k every week with my dodge dually hauling a Dozer around. Drive with due regard and you'll be fine!

Brett
 
#26 ·
rustyshakelford, thank you for your input. Have you had any components on your Dodge break while towing that amount of weight?

This is to end all discussion of legality;
Spoke with the owner of a company that makes these trailer's in Iowa. He stated that he had his first Illinois customer 3 years ago and here is what happened to him when he tried to license one of their grain express trailers. The gentleman went to his local DMV and paid to get plates and registration for the trailer. The Secretary of the State sent him his check back in the mail along with a letter stating his trailer fell under the "Implement of Husbandry" catagory and required NO registation, license, or SMV sign. FYI the company gives a copy of this letter to all Illinois residents who purchase the trailer from him.

THIS TRAILER IS LEGAL IN ILLINOIS UP TO 36,000 POUNDS, END OF DEBATE!!!
 
#27 ·
I only had the dodge till 20k miles. No issues what so ever with the truck. It was a 2012 longhorn. Pulled great but the mileage was poor. It was deleted. My buddy has an 05 dodge dually he uses to pull a Dozer and logs with and has probably 80k miles out of 130k pulling heavy. Only thing he's done is u-joints and some front end work. His truck is a standard and just now replaced the factory clutch at 120k

Brett
 
#28 ·
Question: Have you weighed that trailer full? Doesn't appear to me that it will even hold 36,000 pounds, of course that is dependent on the density of the material. I don't know what your hauling but 450 bushels of wheat @ 60 pounds per bushel is only 27,000 pounds, plus the under 5000 pound estimated trailer weight your at 32,000 pounds total weight. Just my .02
 
#30 ·
I will mainly be hauling popcorn, which can weigh up to 70 pounds a bushel. 450 bushel times 70 pounds equals 31,500 lb. plus 4,500 lb. for the trailer and I am sitting right at 36,000 pounds. Popcorn doesn't always weigh that much, as us farmer's know moisture rate can effect the pounds. We try to keep the moisture between 15 and 17.5%, thats the happy range to get it to pop the way our buyer wants it to.

I am sure this trailer seems like a crazy idea to some, but it doesn't require a CDL which means my wife and two kids can take my truck and I can stay in the combine or grain cart tractor. I also work second shift in Bloomington, IL and that is where we take 70% of our soybeans to and I can take a load on my way to work to the elevator. All of out beans are Non GMO and get a premium for that.
 
#29 ·
Brett,

Thanks for the information.
 
#31 ·
Personally I would invest in a bobtail grain truck, ours will hold 30,000 pounds of corn @ 56 pound bushel weight. Wow, 15 to 17% moisture is considered still green down here, it needs to be dry for milling.

I've hauled many overweight fertilizer and seed tender trailers when I worked at Helena and have seen my fair share of accidents, would not let my wife any where near such contraptions. A CDL is not that hard to get, practice, study and take the test. Another option would be to invest in another truck and two smaller trailers. 2 more cents...
 
#32 ·
You gotta have a grain truck before you can purchase that bobtail trailer lol.

We have a 2007 International 9200i semi and a 2009 Temte 40' hopper bottom trailer. Our semi truck and trailer sits idle 6 months out of the year in the shed and I only help my father on the farm, still work a full time job on top of that.

I am in the Army National Guard and have a military license to drive semi trucks, all that I have to do is take my paperwork down to the DMV, take a written test and they will grant me my CDL, just not really interested in getting it until I have to. You see in Illinois if you have a CDL and you get a moving violation ticket then you have to retake all your written tests and pay for them. I have a motorcycle license too, so thats three tests that I don't care to take over.
 
#34 ·
Story Time~

Farmer Fred:

There have been a lot of really good responses in this thread about the legalities, and the possible problems you might have with liability, weigh stations, etc. There was also some good info straight from the book about your trucks GVWR, GCWR, etc....

The following story is not meant to disprove any of that type of good information....HERE GOES:


I bought my first diesel back in 2009. It was a 6.0L F350, SRW, CC, Lariat w/ B&W Turnover Hitch. I loved that truck,:D except for I had a ton of breakdowns and issues. Probably all related to my naive and stupid usage!

Anyway, shortly after I bought the truck I bought a 44' Gooseneck triple axle enclosed trailer. I planned on moving everything I own including my '98 Camry to Alaska. After getting everything loaded, I got my first weight ticket. My total GVW (truck + trailer) at a state certified scale was:

34,400lbs!!!!!:taze:--- way more than I should have had (see all of the good advice, tech specs, and noted legalities in other posts)

After making a few test drives before my run north I decided I better get a tuner....(remember I was a novice diesel owner)....so I bought a 450 dollar edge tuner and ran whatever the second performance tune was on that particular tuner ( I can't remember what it was called, just that it was the second step up).

With that, I was off! After the first 1,200 miles, I pulled into my home town and decided to do a few more modifications to the set-up. I had oil, filters, and coolant changed. I had my tie-rods redone on the front end. I put on 4 OEM sized Hankook AT tires. I bought a 100gal transfer tank and installed an electric pump. I put a set of "Super Springs" on the rear leaf stack and pinned them through the second set of mounting holes. I picked up about 6 spare tires for the trailer (the reputation of the ALCAN was beginning to scare me). I had the trailer axles fully serviced, and replaced the starter in the truck.

Back on the road! I was euphoric with the performance of the truck. As I crossed into Canada, I was getting pretty good with this set-up. I got a little froggy a few times as I was pushing through the mountains in Canada on what is known as the Cassier Highway. A few times I pushed the truck at 70MPH up some crazy long climbs. I was so pumped as I rolled past the "Big Guys"! At the top of one of these hills I had a blow out on the trailer....no big deal...and I was back on the road.

I knew nothing about EGT's, my OEM Garrett Turbo, the cursed EGR, weak head bolts and gaskets, or any of the other stresses I was pushing that motor through. I was an ignorant, overconfident, newbie on the road to disaster!

Somewhere in the middle of Canada, about 400 miles south of Whitehorse, I lost the EGR:eek:hnoes:. I limped to an RV park, dumped the trailer, had the truck towed to Whitehorse, and drove onto Alaska in my Camry. My adventures and ignorance had finally caught up with me.

The Ford dealership in Whitehorse was AMAZING....they did really good work and were very helpful....After four weeks and $7,600 of work (new head gasket, head bolts, EGR cooler, etc) I flew back to Whitehorse on a small twin engine plane and picked up the truck. I ran back down to the trailer which was still parked at the RV park and turned/burned back for Alaska.


------SO, WHAT DID I LEARN------

I learned a ton about diesels!

I learned that my diesel truck is amazing and so capable.

I learned that pushing my truck past the manufacturer ratings will ALWAYS be costly in the end.

I learned what an EGR was.

I learned how my EGT's, turbo pressure, etc all work together, and how it affected my engine and it's systems.


-----WHAT DOES THIS MEAN TO YOU------

I bet your truck could do what you are asking of it!:crazy:

I bet you will end up learning a ton about the different parts you will inevitably replace

I bet since you are not going to race Big Rigs up hills in canada, you will probably not experience problems as quickly as I did.

I bet if you monitor your trans temp, EGTs, and all other systems, that you can manage the wear and tear......but don't be fooled....there is still wear and tear!


Sorry for the LONG response:eek:......I hope it helped add to all the other great technical and legal responses.
 
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