What Will Labor Do.......

[scotty2280]

Originally Posted by Marc

I would disagree......unions USED TO set the wages for non union poeple....in the modern world in MOST (notice i said most) industries......non union wages are no longer modled after union ones...

its called prevailing wages

[silverF250]

Originally Posted by Marc

I would disagree......unions USED TO set the wages for non union poeple....in the modern world in MOST (notice i said most) industries......non union wages are no longer modled after union ones...

In a right to work state you are probably correct, but in a union state like Missouri that is exactly how it works. 95%+ of our labor force in commercial, residential, industrial and even remodeling are union. If you were the one negotiating your own pay raises than that is a union shop. Unions are all about collective bargaining that is one of our core beliefs. Even as a union roofer tenure means nothing.
How long did you work at your union jobs? What level of apprentice were you and what hall (union specifially) were the roofers affiliated with? Here the roofers are under the carpenter's jurisdiction. Sorry you didn't get treated the way you feel like you should have.

[silverF250]

Originally Posted by vitalidle

I agree there is a stigma associated with unions and thats where we union members need to educate the rest of the population. Union work isn't for everyone and thats what makes america great we have that choice to not be in a union shop. I will say the best thing about unions is you can only be fired for just cause. Now the lazy worker can be fired but the employer has to go through the right avenues of documenting those actions, but most choose not too because its easier not too. Anyway I probobly should stay out of this discussion and I will..... just keep it civil so all of us can be educated about these issues

Vital what union do you belong too? Around here it is extremely easy to let go of any worker all they do is give them their christmas bonus and tell them there is no work. They don't have to tell anyone that they are fired just that work has slowed and they no longer need their serivces.

[Dirk]

After seeing GM and Southwestern bell union people strike. I don't have any sympathy for them. The last time SBC went on strike, they had the nerve to get on TV and complain about having to NOW pay partial insurance costs and how it was so unfair, so they went on strike. BOO F'N HOO. Wake up to the real world and get back to work.

If you feel that your job is so bad. Get another one. IF you feel that you can't, buckle down and learn a new trade. I did.. my father did.. and my grand father did twice.

[mschn99]

Originally Posted by DustyDiesel83

Illegals are driving up the cost of health care because our hospitals can't turn them away, they have to treat there injuries and delivery there babies. If you want to do something about this write your senator or start a petition, but don't bash the union.

i never made a statement as far as complaining about the price of healthcare.... and i can go on and on about illegals all day long!!! Dont even get me going on that!

by the way....i average 2-5 letters a week and 5-10 emails a week to people in office....so dont worry....they know how i feel!!!

as far as the unions go......as i have said in my comments....MOST doesnt encompass all of them....just MOST of them. It appears that in the midwest carpenters unions are alright based on peoples statements here...but i know the one i belonged to in montana wasnt!!!

Lets look at the writers guild in LA.....all of the auto manufacterers......the dealers around here that are union......actually that gives me an idea...let me break that one down.....

the average Union mechanic in this area makes about $32 an hour.....

Minus the $5 an hour they lose in the union contract....
They lose the ability to negotiate thier own wage......
MOST importantly as a mechanic is they HAVE to be hourly. A good flat rate tech makes way more than 40 hours in a workweek yet works no more than 40.....thats money out of my pocket right there...

Now look at me....i make $28 an hour....
i can negotiate my own wage.....
i AM flat rate....

thats just a simple example. Poeple who come from a fair union (although i will still say i dont think there are a very high % of them that are) could come up with the same example for the union.....but the bottom line is i think by % of worker we could come up with more negative examples than positive ones IMO....

[mschn99]

Originally Posted by silverF250

In a right to work state you are probably correct, but in a union state like Missouri that is exactly how it works. 95%+ of our labor force in commercial, residential, industrial and even remodeling are union. If you were the one negotiating your own pay raises than that is a union shop. Unions are all about collective bargaining that is one of our core beliefs. Even as a union roofer tenure means nothing.
How long did you work at your union jobs? What level of apprentice were you and what hall (union specifially) were the roofers affiliated with? Here the roofers are under the carpenter's jurisdiction. Sorry you didn't get treated the way you feel like you should have.

the majority of states (36 if i remember right) are right to work though....

To be honest i dont even remember what union it was.....i was at the one for about a year....the other for about 11 months of the three years i worked there when we got the option to opt out....those of us that opted out made about 20% more than those that didnt....

[mschn99]

Originally Posted by vitalidle

I know nobody has broken the rules here, but lets keep this a civil debate amongst ourselves

WHAT IF I DONT WANT TO!!!

I wont get heated with anyone Sean....and ill bow out before anyone does...its not like im gonna change anyone else's opinions in the union debate and its not like they are gonna change mine...its fun to discuss as long as nobody gets pissy though!!

[silverF250]

Marc I will agree that not all unions are run the way they should be. Like I said earlier I am sorry you didn't get treated fairly. Around here the construction unions get the lazy tag because we can't keep up with the illegals. Working 20 hour days for minimum wage with no insurance makes it hard for us to compete. So out of necessity to survive we have to get rid of the lazy ones or the ones who don't get up to speed in the first week or so of working. The illegals have to double there man power and work days just to surpass our daily goals. We are the best trained and fastest work force in the area.

I know in your op you didn't say all are lazy and worthless, but your wording to us in the midwest construction trades will almost always get you into a fight. I know you didn't mean for any harm it just hits a nerve with us that strikes deep.

[mschn99]

Originally Posted by silverF250

Marc I will agree that not all unions are run the way they should be. Like I said earlier I am sorry you didn't get treated fairly. Around here the construction unions get the lazy tag because we can't keep up with the illegals. Working 20 hour days for minimum wage with no insurance makes it hard for us to compete. So out of necessity to survive we have to get rid of the lazy ones or the ones who don't get up to speed in the first week or so of working. The illegals have to double there man power and work days just to surpass our daily goals. We are the best trained and fastest work force in the area.

I know in your op you didn't say all are lazy and worthless, but your wording to us in the midwest construction trades will almost always get you into a fight. I know you didn't mean for any harm it just hits a nerve with us that strikes deep.

I understand.....and hey....bring it on anytime on any one of my opinion based comments!!!...i always enjoy a civil debate....even if there is no ONE right answer!! (not that anybody has noticed!!!)

[silverF250]

Will do.