What Will Labor Do.......

[scotty2280]

Originally Posted by Marc

unions are a waste of money and time in 99% of industries.....people could actually make more on the free market.

The unions, In thier day, were a necessity to keep big business from screwing workers. That day has now come and pass......there are SO many ways an individual can fight a corperation. There are labor boards...attournies....etc...etc. What the unions used to do for most poeple...they can now do for themselves.....

The unions now just do everything they can to be greedy and not go under. I grew up in a VERY pro-union town......a mining town...so its not like i dont know what they are about. My gradandpa was in a carpenters union for 40 plus years and my other grandpa was an electrition in a union for the same amount of time. The bottom line is IMO MOST (still not all....but most) american workers who are working for a union company now could do better on thier own. The only thing union jobs prevent anymore is lazy people from being fired.....

unions set the wages for non union people

[silverF250]

What you are describing Marc is a shop style union and not indicative of the contruction unions. Those shop unions are basically run as non-union factories, such as cabinet makers and printers.

In St. Louis the very first ones to get laid-off are the lazy ones. The apprentices make a little over half of what the journey-men does, therefore it is cheaper for them to keep the kids and they do. I know this from experience and have seen it done repeatedly. There is no way that any average person can get the same beneifts that I do on their own and pay anywhere near what I do. We have over 20,000 carpenters in our district and the union negotiates our raises and beneifits for us.

As in any line of work there are always going to be some lazy people and as you stated you got fired so a lazy tech could keep his job. It happens and is not limited to unions.

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Last edited by silverF250 : 02-27-2008 at 02:33 PM.

[scotty2280]

Originally Posted by silverF250

What you are describing Marc is a shop style union and not indicative of the contruction unions. Those shop unions are basically run as non-union factories, such as cabinet makers and printers.

In St. Louis the very first ones to get laid-off are the lazy ones. The apprentices make a little over half of what the journey-men does, therefore it is cheaper for them to keep the kids and they do. I know this from experience and have seen it done repeatedly. There is no way that any average person can get the same beneifts that I do on their own and pay anywhere near what I do. We have over 20,000 carpenters in our district and the union negotiates our raises and beneifits for us.

As in any line of work there are always going to be some lazy people and as you stated you got fired so a lazy tech could keep his job. It happens and is not limited to unions.

ditto we dont get fired they just tell us there is no workkeeps the slackers out

[DustyDiesel83]

Wow, what union left a bad taste in your mouth Marc. I have been in the sheet metal workers union for 3 years now and am making 3 times the money I was making working non-union..... Plus the benefits are better and i don't pay for it out of my pocket its in our total package as far as health and welfare. The union is there to protect your job and to protect you from unfair labor practices. As far as been lazy, the only lazy people I have seen are UAW workers, and some plumbers that are older. Everyone else humps it to make a living. Whats wrong with this country now a days is everyone is affraid to say something that is going to hurt somebodys feelings. Illegals are driving up the cost of health care because our hospitals can't turn them away, they have to treat there injuries and delivery there babies. If you want to do something about this write your senator or start a petition, but don't bash the union.

[vitalidle]

I know nobody has broken the rules here, but lets keep this a civil debate amongst ourselves

[silverF250]

Originally Posted by DustyDiesel83

Wow, what union left a bad taste in your mouth Marc. I have been in the sheet metal workers union for 3 years now and am making 3 times the money I was making working non-union..... Plus the benefits are better and i don't pay for it out of my pocket its in our total package as far as health and welfare. The union is there to protect your job and to protect you from unfair labor practices. As far as been lazy, the only lazy people I have seen are UAW workers, and some plumbers that are older. Everyone else humps it to make a living. Whats wrong with this country now a days is everyone is affraid to say something that is going to hurt somebodys feelings. Illegals are driving up the cost of health care because our hospitals can't turn them away, they have to treat there injuries and delivery there babies. If you want to do something about this write your senator or start a petition, but don't bash the union.

I think the significant part of Marc's posts are he works in a shop style union not what we are used too. I can see where he is coming from and understand to a certain extent his frustration. He also is in a right to work state and that obviously affects his view. I agree that there is noway you can get the benefits and the money doing this yourself. Just like he and the techs take pride in their work we union construction workers take pride in our training and our abilities. Obviously the whole bashing on the union gets me a little fired up because I know what it has taken me and my other family members to get what we have. We come from Northern Indiana and the only jobs besides union are factory work and they don't pay all that well.

[mschn99]

Originally Posted by silverF250

What you are describing Marc is a shop style union and not indicative of the contruction unions.

i never have or will work at a union shop....

1 construction (roofing) and 1 union working as a salesman at a sporting goods store

ill get back on and post more to your guy's responce in a bit.....im too busy right now to wade through all the posts and respond....

[mschn99]

Originally Posted by scotty2280

unions set the wages for non union people

I would disagree......unions USED TO set the wages for non union poeple....in the modern world in MOST (notice i said most) industries......non union wages are no longer modled after union ones...

[silverF250]

Originally Posted by vitalidle

I know nobody has broken the rules here, but lets keep this a civil debate amongst ourselves

Will do. This topic is a little touchy for all of the Union Construction Workers. It hits the same nerve with us as the S word for the techs. Obviously there are lazy people in all walks of life and we hardworking ones get lumped in with the others no matter what job we do.

[vitalidle]

Originally Posted by silverF250

Will do. This topic is a little touchy for all of the Union Construction Workers. It hits the same nerve with us as the S word for the techs. Obviously there are lazy people in all walks of life and we hardworking ones get lumped in with the others no matter what job we do.

I agree there is a stigma associated with unions and thats where we union members need to educate the rest of the population. Union work isn't for everyone and thats what makes america great we have that choice to not be in a union shop. I will say the best thing about unions is you can only be fired for just cause. Now the lazy worker can be fired but the employer has to go through the right avenues of documenting those actions, but most choose not too because its easier not too. Anyway I probobly should stay out of this discussion and I will..... just keep it civil so all of us can be educated about these issues