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Old 05-03-2012, 07:09 AM
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Why take God out of everything?

Why take god out of everything? Why must we conform to the few who get butt hurt over God or Jesus or prayers?

"Gallup found in 2011 that 92 percent of Americans said they believe in God"

If that is the case why not stand up to the few who say they don't believe in God.

Really if you don't believe in God why are you so offended? Maybe it is because of the conviction of not having that relationship with God or because you are living for your own selfish ways.






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Old 05-03-2012, 08:12 AM
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Originally Posted by jallen3521 View Post
Why take god out of everything? Why must we conform to the few who get butt hurt over God or Jesus or prayers?

"Gallup found in 2011 that 92 percent of Americans said they believe in God"

If that is the case why not stand up to the few who say they don't believe in God.

Really if you don't believe in God why are you so offended? Maybe it is because of the conviction of not having that relationship with God or because you are living for your own selfish ways.
I think you may confuse believing in a god with your God. What people get upset about, and rightfully so, is that the Judeo-Christian God seems to be what everyone centers around. Maybe those who wish to keep these Judeo-Christian references to their god instilled throughout our Government should think about what it looks like as a Muslim, Buddhist, Atheist or anyone else that does not believe in the Judeo-Christian God.

We should have a strong separation between Church and State in this country. History has shown that when the two become entwined, very bad things happen.

Prayer in schools is absolutely inappropriate when that school is government funded. If a majority of an area is Christian that does not mean that the majority get to use force to make the minority listen to or participate in their religious worship. If you want your children to have worship in school, send them to a private school.

Government is force. Religion in government is using that monopoly of force to force that religion on others.
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Old 05-03-2012, 08:19 AM
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Rashole can you point out in the Constitution where it mentions separation of church and state?
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Old 05-03-2012, 08:30 AM
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Well, we have let prayer be taken out of school, Christ out of Christmas and Easter, etc.... but when something bad happens someone always asks "Why did God let this happen?" I think it is because we, as a nation, have basically told him to stay out of our lives and leave us alone, and he listens.
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Old 05-03-2012, 08:33 AM
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ok, since you brought it up, the minority in schools that may not believe, so the others are forced to not participate in what they believe in? so whats right in that, let the others be excused to the hall then, they do not have to participate or say anything.
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Old 05-03-2012, 08:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Rashole View Post
I think you may confuse believing in a god with your God. What people get upset about, and NOT rightfully so, is that the Judeo-Christian God seems to be what everyone centers around.
I fixed it for you...

The Judeo-Christian God, the ONLY God, is what this great nation was founded under... yet we grant freedom of religion to those who believe otherwise... who take advantage of the system to ruin the country... and too many just let them.
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Old 05-03-2012, 08:49 AM
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Originally Posted by daddyusmaximus View Post
I fixed it for you...

The Judeo-Christian God, the ONLY God, is what this great nation was founded under... yet we grant freedom of religion to those who believe otherwise... who take advantage of the system to ruin the country... and too many just let them.
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Old 05-03-2012, 09:55 AM
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Originally Posted by westcoaststrokin View Post
Rashole can you point out in the Constitution where it mentions separation of church and state?

Separation of church and state is an excerpt from a letter penned by Thomas Jefferson. While there's some debate as to the origin of the separating "wall" theory, the ideological boundaries are outlined in the Bill of Rights Amendment I, not the Constitution itself. The Founding Fathers seemed to know the volatile prospects of established churches and government. The amendment outlined the Federal responsibilities, but not the States responsibilities. Subsequent rulings in all levels of court have upheld the law in both Federal and State venues. I do not have the time to provide examples, but encourage anyone to research them for reference.

I'm not a huge fan of Wikis for knowledge, but here is a link to the correspondence from 1802 between Thomas Jefferson and the Danbury Baptist Association in Connecticut.
Letter to the Danbury Baptists - January 1, 1802 - Wikisource

Pertaining to religion and education, nothing is stopping anyone from enrolling their children into religious schools, provided the family can afford the associated costs of said education. We have enough trouble with public education in this country. Letting religion dictate publicly funded educational institutions and curriculum would be an unequivocal disaster. Those who oppose this idea, I say this to you; beware the unintended consequences. My wife and all of her siblings went to a small Christian school. She has, on multiple occasions, mentioned how it had an adverse affect on the religious beliefs. While she still has core beliefs, her faith in religious establishments has been virtually severed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by daddyusmaximus View Post
I fixed it for you...

The Judeo-Christian God, the ONLY God, is what this great nation was founded under... yet we grant freedom of religion to those who believe otherwise... who take advantage of the system to ruin the country... and too many just let them.
Religious freedom was a cornerstone in the construction of our society and government. While God is referenced on money and in political speeches, secular freedom is observed and necessary. It has always been that way.

Who exactly is taking advantage of religious freedom with the goal of ruining the country? Do you have specific instances?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jallen3521 View Post
"Gallup found in 2011 that 92 percent of Americans said they believe in God"

If that is the case why not stand up to the few who say they don't believe in God.

Really if you don't believe in God why are you so offended? Maybe it is because of the conviction of not having that relationship with God or because you are living for your own selfish ways.
Religion has a place for those who choose to make room for it. Don't believe that a number like 92% is any justification to make it universally required. You may see it as selfish, I would say I'm indifferent until provoked otherwise. I don't consider myself enlightened due to my lack of religion. I do not look down on those who consider themselves enlightened due to their own religious beliefs, why should the reverse reaction be any different?

Last edited by jeffc; 05-03-2012 at 10:06 AM.
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Old 05-03-2012, 09:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffc View Post
Separation of church and state is an excerpt from a letter penned by Thomas Jefferson. While there's some debate as to the origin of the separating "wall" theory, the ideological boundaries are outlined in the Bill of Rights Amendment I, not the Constitution itself. The Founding Fathers seemed to know the volatile prospects of established churches and government. The amendment outlined the Federal responsibilities, but not the States responsibilities. Subsequent rulings in all levels of court have upheld the law in both Federal and State venues. I do not have the time to provide examples, but encourage anyone to research them for reference.

I'm not a huge fan of Wikis for knowledge, but here is a link to the correspondence from 1802 between Thomas Jefferson and the Danbury Baptist Association in Connecticut.
Letter to the Danbury Baptists - January 1, 1802 - Wikisource

Pertaining to religion and education, nothing is stopping anyone from enrolling their children into religious schools, provided the family can afford the associated costs of said education. We have enough trouble with public education in this country. Letting religion dictate publicly funded educational institutions and curriculum would be an unequivocal disaster. Those who oppose this idea, I say this to you; beware the unintended consequences. My wife and all of her siblings went to a small Christian school. She has, on multiple occasions, mentioned how it had an adverse affect on the religious beliefs. While she still has core beliefs, her faith in religious establishments has been virtually severed.



Religious freedom was a cornerstone in the construction of our society and government. While God is referenced on money and in political speeches, secular freedom is observed and necessary. It has always been that way.

Who exactly is taking advantage of religious freedom with the goal of ruining the country? Do you have specific instances?

Religion has a place for those who choose to make room for it. Don't believe that a number like 92% is any justification to make it universally required.
I know where it was from. I wanted Rashole to provide me with the knowledge that he did also.
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Old 05-03-2012, 10:04 AM
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Originally Posted by fourx4forfun View Post
ok, since you brought it up, the minority in schools that may not believe, so the others are forced to not participate in what they believe in? so whats right in that, let the others be excused to the hall then, they do not have to participate or say anything.
Why have any religious prayers or acts in school then? A public school is not the place for these things, private schools are. It is just as wrong for a Christian to have school sponsored prayers in a school as it is for a Muslim to sponsored Muslim prayers in a school.

You can have self led prayer that is not led by the school or sponsored by that school in any way. You have the right to practice your religion but you do not have the right to force other to sit through it.

No one will stop a child from praying before they eat lunch but it is 100% inappropriate for a teacher to lead a prayer for the entire lunch room.
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