Had an interesting discussion on FB today, thought yall might be interested.
So far, under this horrifying system, 17 innocent people sentenced to death have been exonerated and released based on DNA evidence, and 112 other people based on other evidence. All but a few developed nations have abolished the death penalty. It is time Americans acknowledged that the death penalty cannot be made to comply with the Constitution and is in every way indefensible.( NY Times)
Jason S (me) - you dont believe in the death penalty? O.o
Lorna B - I used to Jason, but not anymore
Jason S - Why not?? It not perfect by any means, but its not about being perfect, its about being right most of the time.
Lorna B - and therein lies the problem Jason, its not right,never!
Jason S - ever?
Lorna B - If there is a chance one innocent man?women is put to death then no its never right,think about it, it could be you or someone u know one day
Jason S - could be, but thats the price you pay to keep psychopaths off the street and off the backs of your nation. We cant pay to keep them alive for a life sentence, and we can't risk putting them on the streets. Capital punishment for Capital crimes.
Lorna B - I dont agree, the people that deserve life in prison should stay there forever,i would rather foot that bill than having someone put to death who may or may not be guilty, Have you read up on the Troy davis execution.........total bullchit, that was an innocent man murdered by your country.
Lorna B - And this country can afford to keep people in prison for the rest of their lives, its just that people would rather see someone die, sad but true.
Lorna B - You cant just assume that someone is guilty and start crying for their blood, im f****** amazed at how many people do just that. That whole Troy Davis thing just totally f***** me up, made me think alot about things ya know and my opinion has now changed forever about the death penalty for everyone, not just Troy Davis.
Jason S - Innocent people die all the time for unjust reasons. people lying in the first place is what got davis executed. that is on their backs. and this country cant afford to feed itself without taking out a damn loan, so feeding some leech with no reciprocation is totally out of the question.
Onaliesa L - a guy just got the death sentence the other week even when someone else came forward and said he did it and 7 out of 9 jurors admitted to lying
Lorna B - Yeah Ona that was Troy Davis.....murdered
Jason S - *mistakenly executed
Lorna B - Yeah innocent people do die, lets not double the figures by killing innocent people, lets not kill anyone ITS NOT F****** RIGHT!!!!
Onaliesa L - oopsie, didn't read the comments above , Bye mommm
Lorna B - Jason u make it sound like "oh well,oops,sorry our mistake we just fried u, but never mind lets get onto the next one
Jason S - No, it's no right to make EVERYONE pay for someone elses mistakes. Make them pay and be done with it. The only way i would even consider no death penalty is putting prisoners back into a work camp type situation. Too crazy to work? execution.
Jason S - fried? its lethal injection. painless.
Lorna B - Some states still "fry" and just because its painless makes it ok? Nope!
Jason S - I guess the reason it gets to people like you. Sensationalist media. You only hear about the obviously guilty ones and the "innocent" one's that get executed. There are tons of executions that go off without a hitch or a whimper that you never hear about.
Lorna B - I agree you dont hear about them all, and u bloody well should, im not just saying this coz i feel bad for that one bloke, I truly believe there should be NO death penalty for anyone at all!
Jason S - Well it's just not the way it is or the way it will ever be. These liberal ideal's just do not work in the real world. Liberalism is just a step above socialism and communism.
Lorna B - lol, wtfe Irish,maybe thats a good thing, and I hope to hell it is abolished....soon!
Lorna B - who the hell has the right to say who lives and dies,no one should!!!!
Jason S - It will not happen. And in the USA if they start saying they wont kill anyone, people will be seeking retributiion by themselves. And it's better to be tried by twelve than carried by six.
Jason S - no one person should have the right to say who lives and who dies. that's why you are tried by a jury
Lorna B - lol, funny, thats what they said about Roe verus Wade u know....."it will never happen,not in this country" and looky now
Jason S - roe vs wade isnt even close to being a similar situation
Lorna B - Ya know id rather be tried by a Judge than 12 people who havent a f****** clue, who may have been screened by attorneys but who the hell knows what they are really thinking underneath
Lorna B - and it is the same thing, people never thought it would happen and it did, may be the same of the death penalty...im hoping so
Jason S - if you'd put your life in the hands of one person, instead of leaving it in the hands of many, where one can save it, i just do not see the point in that
Lorna B - Read that NY times article, its interesting
Lorna B - because dear Jason people are effed up
Jason S - getting rid of the death penalty will not save anything. If people wanted to, they could go kill EVERYONE they didnt like! why? because the cops will show up, arrest them, and they'll get 3 hots and a cot the rest of their life
Jason S - are judges not people too? do not think a black robe and a gavel takes away emotion and preconceptions out of the person.
Lorna B - no i dont think that, but i would much rather go that route than jury.
Lorna B - I put that link on my profile
Jason S - why? it takes one person on a jury to keep you alive. if the judge wants you dead, you can call it a night
Lorna B - I just dont tlike the thought of 12 people who like I said dont know what the hell they are doing,if i had to serve on a jury, i would be terrified! but u get some jumped up twat and god knows what could happen, amny many jurors have been swayed by others and thats bullchit.
Lorna B - I dont know the solution to the f***** up justice system, but some things gotta change and what better way to start than by abolishing the death penalty!!!!
Jason S - you obviously are afraid to play the odds. and if a juror is swayed by others, thats on them. spineless excuses for human beings are why this country is in so bad of shape to begin with.
Jason S - better way to start it? mandatory death penalty
Carlyle Legion Bar Grill - Why are people assumed guilty now in the U.S. until proven innocent?. It should be people are innocent until proven guilty the way it used to be and was one of the main principals of our Constitution! If you were ever wrongly charged with a crime ,no matter how small or know someone who was wrongly charged with a crime you would feel different.
Jason S - i know people who are wrongly charged with a crime. i also know of people who commit crimes daily and get off scot free. it does not change my mind at all. piss poor government is to blame for that. if yall cant get over the fact that the world just aint fair, and you'll have to settle with fair enough, idk what to tell you.
Paul Andrew H -
If you allow your state to play god/nature, and to execute your own people at their discretion then its not too much of a leap of faith to argue that people of other sovereign jations should be executed at their discretion too. Simly put state executions are inhumane and backward they are outdated.They placeway too kuch power in the hands of the state. A state that consistently lies to its people, falsifies information, covers up its own atrocities, invades countries at will, deposes leaders of other states, kills children in their sleep, sponsors and supports tyranny, deliberately impoverishes and imposes poverty nations who do not skip to its beat.
All the while telling you you are on the good side, you are righteous you are just. We're an empire dammit, and communism and socialism were a threat to our empire they werent wrong because they were bad but because they were competing ideologies that threatened the rich of our nations, those who sponsor our political system with the corruption that is politocal funding. Want to be president sir, bend over hun, rockerfellers gonna fill up your slot. With money comes great power without money you are powerless. You want power bubba gou gotta has money.
To question, to challenge is normal, its not Communist, it not socialist. Its human.
Laura I salute your efforts to educate I really do. Youre a top lass, who wasn't brought up in a country where accepting what you are told by the state is the norm, far from it, we come from a country where if we want change we march, we protest, we riot, we make a proper nuisance of ourselves.
State permitted execution belongs to an earlier age. It is inhumane and immoral, cheers.
PS I love America, you've done great things for this world.I truly appreciate that. I think your governments are a bit ****. I dont conflate the actions of your governments with the will of the people.
Clare Brunton R - well said paul !!!!
Lorna B - Paul, I will take you on my side in a debate everytime!! Well said!!!
Jason S -
There is a difference between a world power and a 3rd world country, or even a 2nd world country. A country like the United States did not get to where it is by not doing something right. State exectutions are not inhumane or outdated. It's not like they've stayed the way they have. I'll take you back 120 years or so and give you a clue in... in the late 1800's, if you were found guilty by the judge, or even the arresting deputy in some places, you would be hanged at first light the next day. We've come a loooong way from that. Do I think the system is still flawed? yes. Do I think it needs changed? yes. But completely done away with? not a chance. And just because I agree with this ONE thing does not mean i stand behind my government fully. I disagree with MUCH of what our government has done, hell, most of what it has done over the past 20-30 years i disagree with. but it does certain things right. or at least has the right intentions, and works towards getting them less flawed. And as far as communism and socialism goes, you should look to THEIR examples for what you had stated about what a state does.... they have taken that to the EXTREME and if anything that is way more inhumane and unjust that anything we do in the US
Jason S -
and yes, with money comes power, and without it you are powerless... you go any farther back in civilization and you will find it was either bloodshed or the threat of bloodshed that ruled. I'll take my capitalism. and yes questioning and challenging is normal, but you can do both without searching for radical change. and unlike what you may believe, we are the state that doesn't believe what we are told. If you will recall correctly, we raised the biggest hell in YOUR history and in the begining of ours when WE broke loose from YOUR tyranny. and if you think state executions are still inhumane and out-dated, open up your borders and let the kind of low life trash into YOUR country that our slack azz government is too lazy to effectively police.
Jason S - And you most definate should appreciate what we've done and continue to do. without us, you guys would still be in debt to us from WWII. we completely forgave that debt. half of europe would be 3rd world without our forgiveness. Yall outside of our nation (and even within) are so quick to judge our actions when other will not act at all, and easily forget what generosity and compassion we have shown.
editted for CoC
incase you all arnt aware, the people I'm having this debate with are from the UK. Lorna lives in the states.
the link to the times article:
whew! that was a lot of copy, paste and edit