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post #1 of 11 Old 07-04-2008, 06:07 AM Thread Starter
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A Sobering Thought

My wife is a pediatric critical care nurse, and last night she admitted a gunshot victim to the PICU.

10 and 11 y/o brothers were left at home by themselves, and decided to play with dad's 12 gauge shotgun. The shotgun was left out, unloaded, by the bed. The kids found some shells and managed to load the gun. The 11 y/o then proceeded to point the gun at his brother--not hard to guess what happened next. The gun went off and the 10 y/o was shot, close range in the shoulder. He will most likely pull through ok, but he'll probably lose his arm. It could have been much worse--his comment to hospital staff was that his brother was "pointing the gun at my head, but I kept ducking."

Now surely there's a ton of details we don't know about the situation, and I certainly don't want to come across preachy. But my point is this: even the best can get complacent about gun safety. And even the most educated children can make stupid decisions--that's why they're kids.

Food for thought.

Robert Fenton

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post #2 of 11 Old 07-04-2008, 06:21 AM
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Originally Posted by mountainlander View Post
My wife is a pediatric critical care nurse, and last night she admitted a gunshot victim to the PICU.

10 and 11 y/o brothers were left at home by themselves, and decided to play with dad's 12 gauge shotgun. The shotgun was left out, unloaded, by the bed. The kids found some shells and managed to load the gun. The 11 y/o then proceeded to point the gun at his brother--not hard to guess what happened next. The gun went off and the 10 y/o was shot, close range in the shoulder. He will most likely pull through ok, but he'll probably lose his arm. It could have been much worse--his comment to hospital staff was that his brother was "pointing the gun at my head, but I kept ducking."

Now surely there's a ton of details we don't know about the situation, and I certainly don't want to come across preachy. But my point is this: even the best can get complacent about gun safety. And even the most educated children can make stupid decisions--that's why they're kids.

Food for thought.
I agree, just as even the 'Best' can get compacent about automobile safety, knife safety, hammer safety, nail gun safety, etc, ad infinitum. We don't lock up our car keys, silverware drawers, or tool boxes (in the garage).

Safety training and rules of behaviour for children are the responsibility of parents.

So really, what IS your point?

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post #3 of 11 Old 07-04-2008, 06:43 AM
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same exact situation took the life of my best friend when I was 11 years old. keep em put up.



A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.
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The People of a free country should not be scared of their government, the government should be scared of their people.


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post #4 of 11 Old 07-04-2008, 06:50 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by rdc View Post
I agree, just as even the 'Best' can get compacent about automobile safety, knife safety, hammer safety, nail gun safety, etc, ad infinitum. We don't lock up our car keys, silverware drawers, or tool boxes (in the garage).

Safety training and rules of behaviour for children are the responsibility of parents.

So really, what IS your point?
Simple. Of all the things to get complacent with, your children are about the worst.

On that note, what is YOUR point?

Robert Fenton

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Last edited by mountainlander; 07-04-2008 at 06:58 AM.
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post #5 of 11 Old 07-04-2008, 07:28 AM
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Originally Posted by mountainlander View Post
Simple. Of all the things to get complacent with, your children are about the worst.

On that note, what is YOUR point?
I inferred (perhaps incorrectly) that you were waxing liberal. I believe parents
should instruct their children such that they know what is right and wrong, and behave appropriately. My children were taught about firearms continuously, from the time they could toddle around and grab things. When they were very little, I was careful to keep harmful things out of reach. When they got old enough to understand and be taught, I taught them to never handle firearms unless an adult was present, and that every firearm was
always loaded, and to never point a firearm at anything they didn't want to destroy. Consequently, I was able to keep firearms accessible in the home, ready for immediate use if necessary.

My children have all grown up healthy and happy, without a firearms-related accident. I don't think it's luck.

You do understand, that firearms safety was never an issue 50 years ago? Farm kids knew about firearms. Accidental shootings were probably more rare amongst children than amongst adults. It's more a matter of teaching them to respect firearms than it is a matter of keeping firearms 'locked up'.

My $0.02. My sincere apologies if I have misinterpreted the meaning behind your post, but I felt there was a 'point' behind your point.

Best regards.

Russ Cook

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Last edited by rdc; 07-04-2008 at 07:57 AM. Reason: typo (spelling)
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post #6 of 11 Old 07-04-2008, 07:45 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by rdc View Post
I inferred (perhaps incorrectly) that you were waxing liberal. I believe parents
should instruct their children such that they know what is right and wrong, and behave appropriately. My children were tought about firearms continuously, from the time they could toddle around and grab things. When they were very little, I was careful to keep harmful things out of reach. When they got old enough to understand and be taught, I taught them to never handle firearms unless an adult was present, and that every firearm was
always loaded, and to never point a firearm at anything they didn't want to destroy. Consequently, I was able to keep firearms accessible in the home, ready for immediate use if necessary.

My children have all grown up healthy and happy, without a firearms-related accident. I don't think it's luck.

You do understand, that firearms safety was never an issue 50 years ago? Farm kids knew about firearms. Accidental shootings were probably more rare amongst children than amongst adults. It's more a matter of teaching them to respect firearms than it is a matter of keeping firearms 'locked up'.

My $0.02. My sincere apologies if I have misinterpreted the meaning behind your post, but I felt there was a 'point' behind your point.

Best regards.
Nope, not bleeding liberal--conservative, (and deep in the Heart of Texas, so that's saying something, especially since our liberals would be conservatives anywhere else.) Also a gun owner. And most importantly, also a parent.

However, I can guarantee political views were the last thing on anybody's mind last night, at least in that family.

I was hoping my point transcended politics as well, but maybe I was unclear.

There is absolutely no substitute for supervision when it comes to kids.

Robert Fenton

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post #7 of 11 Old 07-04-2008, 07:50 AM
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My son was shooting my 30-30 whe he was 6...under my close supervision. A 22 was his choice for shooting at that age but i wanted him to experience what real power he was holding and controling. He learned to only point it at what he intended to hit/kill. Hes 10 now and he just finished up the hunter education/safety test with a 100% - youngest in the class to score perfect - so i believe he knows how to be responsible with a firearm, although he still won't be allowed to use one unsupervised for several more years. I keep guns all over the house and he knows what they are for and they are not for him to touch.

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post #8 of 11 Old 07-04-2008, 08:09 AM
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Originally Posted by mountainlander View Post
Nope, not bleeding liberal--conservative, (and deep in the Heart of Texas, so that's saying something, especially since our liberals would be conservatives anywhere else.) Also a gun owner. And most importantly, also a parent.

However, I can guarantee political views were the last thing on anybody's mind last night, at least in that family.

I was hoping my point transcended politics as well, but maybe I was unclear.

There is absolutely no substitute for supervision when it comes to kids.
Robert, I see we actually agree. It is tragic when children are harmed. It's
inexcusable when children are harmed due to the actions or negligence of their parents. I'm just sensitive when I think others blame the object for the tragedy, rather than the actions of the person using said object.

There's no substitute for good parenting. Unfortunately, there are wildly varying definitions of what constitutes good parenting, and who should be responsible for that parenting.

Russ Cook

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post #9 of 11 Old 07-04-2008, 08:19 AM Thread Starter
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Robert, I see we actually agree. It is tragic when children are harmed. It's
inexcusable when children are harmed due to the actions or negligence of their parents. I'm just sensitive when I think others blame the object for the tragedy, rather than the actions of the person using said object.

There's no substitute for good parenting. Unfortunately, there are wildly varying definitions of what constitutes good parenting, and who should be responsible for that parenting.
It's a good point though. I thought it would obvious that my post was about personal responsibility, yet someone could easily twist the whole thing into proof that 'guns hurt people.' And that just illustrates the difference in mindset between "us" and "them."

Robert Fenton

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post #10 of 11 Old 07-04-2008, 08:26 AM
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Originally Posted by CHenry View Post
My son was shooting my 30-30 whe he was 6...under my close supervision. A 22 was his choice for shooting at that age but i wanted him to experience what real power he was holding and controling. He learned to only point it at what he intended to hit/kill. Hes 10 now and he just finished up the hunter education/safety test with a 100% - youngest in the class to score perfect - so i believe he knows how to be responsible with a firearm, although he still won't be allowed to use one unsupervised for several more years. I keep guns all over the house and he knows what they are for and they are not for him to touch.
Sounds like good, responsible parenting to me...... I can only hope and pray that when my kids are old enough to teach firearm safety to that I'm up to the task. My 5 y/o daughter has been tought they are not toys, she's always fascinated when I clean my guns. My wife and I have different opinions on this subject, she doesn't want the kids around them, so they are locked up in the house. But someday soon its going to come to a head, I'm going to take my daughter shooting and let her experience it. Same thing for my boy, but I've got a while there. He's only 10 months old.

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