The Vehicles Of Today - Ford Powerstroke Diesel Forum
Off-Topic Discussion of All Non-Related Topics

Powerstroke.org is the premier Diesel Truck Forum on the internet. Registered Users do not see the above ads.
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 06-12-2012, 05:16 AM
The Screwy HEUI
 

Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Smithfield, RI
Posts: 4,585
Thanks: 5
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
The Vehicles Of Today

I don't know why this bugs me so much, but it's funny how the cars/trucks of today are the cars/trucks we've dreamed about years ago; they're really starting to look like the futuristic sketches, drawings, & concept photos of cars we've seen in magazines, TV shows, or other types of media throughout many years. The options they're equipped with like GPS, iPod compatibility, TV monitors with DVD, memory seats for more than 1 driver(which used to be limited to only BIG luxury car names like Lincoln & Cadillac........now companies like Hyundai have them), tiptronic shifters, & more. The "c0ckpits" these car companies design- you don't know if you're going to the grocery store or if you're piloting a starship on your way to Pluto.

As far as things we CAN see, it's incredible. Most cars/trucks are just looking so technologically advanced just from their appearance alone, nevermind all the modern technology on board @ the tips of your fingers.


Now.......what happens when you turn these cars/trucks over & take a look @ what's underneath.......it's the same crap we've been using for years. Take for example something like the brand-new gas-powered Super Duty. You have this massive looking leviathan of a truck with all the modern creature comforts of a mid-range Mercedes. It's no longer the old bang-up trucks of yesteryear that look like a modernized version of those trucks of yesteryear. These new Super Duty's look like something out of the ideal truck of tomorrow.

Now, you watch one of these new Super Duty's drive by with it's double-stacked headlights, the clean lines, new-styled rims, cab, bed, etc.....& then as it's passing by you, you see this grey, partially rusted, puny turd of an exhaust pipe & muffler sticking out of it. I know we're talking about something as simple as an exhaust pipe, but it completely throws off the look of the NASA space station on wheels. These big car manufacturers are out to look the best & stuff the best technology into these vehicles, but it only stops @ what the average consumer can see.

I'm sorry, but I always thought that in the future, everything that makes it live & breath would change. You'd think they'd change the design of the exhaust systems to be more efficient & change that old mechanical-metal appearance they still have. Even the engines they install in today's vehicles are the same crap we've been dealing with for years. The only thing that they do to keep things looking new on engines is bolting a plastic engine cover(that you usually have to take off to do ANYTHING to them) & state that this new engine is the latest & greatest. & the materials that these same pieces are made out of(especially if you live in southern NE) are the same crap we've been using for years; after the 1st year you get rust & oxidation & they get worse as time goes on.

I'm probably not going to get my point fully across, as I'm not the best @ explaining things. But the bottom line is; we buy cars & trucks that are supposed to be what we consider to be our generation's future- but we're still looking @ & installing parts our grandfather's did back in their time. The only difference------is how the car itself looks.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #2  
Old 06-12-2012, 05:43 AM
Powerstroke.org Fanatic
 

Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 133
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
I would have to disagree. I see your point about the exhaust, but saying the motors are the same is crazy. Look at the hp and tq numbers the modern vehicles are putting out...heck, you can get a 300 hp Mustang and get 30 mpg, thats new technology and an entire new motor.

Also, you should be careful what you ask for. For a new Superduty cc4x4 with the diesel youre looking at 55-60k, largely in part to all the new technology inside, not to mention the 6k option for the diesel engine. If they continued to upgrade and change even more, these vehicles would be even more hard to afford than what they are now.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #3  
Old 06-12-2012, 06:01 AM
The Screwy HEUI
 

Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Smithfield, RI
Posts: 4,585
Thanks: 5
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Quote:
Originally Posted by mydirtytruck View Post
I would have to disagree. I see your point about the exhaust, but saying the motors are the same is crazy. Look at the hp and tq numbers the modern vehicles are putting out...heck, you can get a 300 hp Mustang and get 30 mpg, thats new technology and an entire new motor.

Also, you should be careful what you ask for. For a new Superduty cc4x4 with the diesel youre looking at 55-60k, largely in part to all the new technology inside, not to mention the 6k option for the diesel engine. If they continued to upgrade and change even more, these vehicles would be even more hard to afford than what they are now.
I understand what you're saying, but you're not really understanding what I'm saying(like I said; I'm terrible @ explaining things). I know about the higher HP/TQ numbers coming from these vehicles & the tech that goes into them. It's the appearance that hasn't changed. Take the Ford 3.8L for example- Ford's used it for years until it's demise sometime in the early 2000s. It started off as a dog, but as time went on, it had gotten a bump here & there with HP. Whether it was carbuerated to EFI, the advent of the T-Bird SC, etc., it had seen almost 3 decades of service. But you open the hood & sure as rain, it's appearance hadn't changed. The vehicle it was going into had by a long shot, but the engine's parts are always the same crap we see day in & day out.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #4  
Old 06-12-2012, 10:08 AM
Super Moderator

 

Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Orangevale, CA
Posts: 11,394
Thanks: 9
Thanked 89 Times in 83 Posts
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
If I am understanding correctly, some things change and some things don't. There are advances in the technology for better performing engines, transmissions, safety items and design, but it seems that much of it is the same. Some components like, Alternators, exhaust pipes, water pumps, blah blah haven't changed. Even the engine configs are the same, in-line 4s, in-line 6, V6, V8s, V10s. Same old, same old.

Here's my take. In order to keep costs down, they use what is cheap and build around it with the new stuff. Example: The Scorpion V8 Diesel. Yes the layout is the same, but they did reverse flow the heads so the intake comes in from the outer side (vs exhaust) and the exhaust is in the valley to easily feed the turbo. They use different injectors vs the older Power Stroke engines. The way to build a blocks and heads is time proven and since they can turn a lot of them out, it holds down the cost. It's the newer designs (body, interior, materials) and added technology is what adds $$ to the sticker. If everything was newly designed every time, the cost of vehicles would be climbing more and more all the time. Again, using the new Super Duties as an example...they haven't changed the cab design since the SDs came out. They have changed grills, headlights, bumpers, fenders and tailgates, but the cab itself hasn't changed. A lot of what goes IN the cab certainly has changed.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #5  
Old 06-12-2012, 12:29 PM
The Screwy HEUI
 

Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Smithfield, RI
Posts: 4,585
Thanks: 5
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperCrutyPS View Post
If I am understanding correctly, some things change and some things don't. There are advances in the technology for better performing engines, transmissions, safety items and design, but it seems that much of it is the same. Some components like, Alternators, exhaust pipes, water pumps, blah blah haven't changed. Even the engine configs are the same, in-line 4s, in-line 6, V6, V8s, V10s. Same old, same old.

Here's my take. In order to keep costs down, they use what is cheap and build around it with the new stuff. Example: The Scorpion V8 Diesel. Yes the layout is the same, but they did reverse flow the heads so the intake comes in from the outer side (vs exhaust) and the exhaust is in the valley to easily feed the turbo. They use different injectors vs the older Power Stroke engines. The way to build a blocks and heads is time proven and since they can turn a lot of them out, it holds down the cost. It's the newer designs (body, interior, materials) and added technology is what adds $$ to the sticker. If everything was newly designed every time, the cost of vehicles would be climbing more and more all the time. Again, using the new Super Duties as an example...they haven't changed the cab design since the SDs came out. They have changed grills, headlights, bumpers, fenders and tailgates, but the cab itself hasn't changed. A lot of what goes IN the cab certainly has changed.
Ah! Thank you for understanding SuperCruty! I did somewhat get my point across. But I hear what you're saying about keeping costs down. It's just too bad that there isn't any breakthrough on these older technologies like the waterpump, alt, etc. with some sort of cost-efficient alternative in manufacturing. Kind of like the advent of the alternator. Since the beginning of vehicles using electrical systems, they've used the big bulky generator until the early/mid-60s. I could only imagine how much it costed to replace a generator as opposed to an alternator. But now, with all these on board electronics they have, especially on fire trucks & ambulance packages, will the alternator's appearance change in order to keep up with these things with some sort of new technology? Or will they continue to install 2 alternators to keep costs down as opposed to finding & designing a new type of alternator that may be more expensive? I guess time will tell.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #6  
Old 06-17-2012, 11:02 AM
Compression Ignition Addict
 

Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,075
Thanks: 0
Thanked 18 Times in 18 Posts
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
what it comes down to, is that there really isn't much in the way of great leaps forward to be made.
on the other hand look at chevy, built the 350 nearly forever. instead of coming up with a fresh new design every 3rd, or fourth year like ford, just continuous fine tuning and improvements. end result #1 favorite hot rod engine, because the knowledge, and parts support is so incredible. every new ford engine or body design has been troubled by mechanics who had to learn on the fly how to troubleshoot and maintain it.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #7  
Old 06-22-2012, 02:45 AM
Compression Ignition Addict
 

Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Centreville, Alabama
Posts: 995
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Feedback Score: 1 reviews
Not apples to apples comparison, but I'll post anyway. I work for Mercedes on the production line. When I started, they had just finished up the w163. The wiring harness for the interior could be put in by hand [meaning the entire assembly weighted less than 30lbs dead lift] for the whole car. For the w164 model so much technology requiring wiring went into them that the installers needed an assist device just to get the harness into the car. We just started the w166 which is very similar in the undercarriage to the w164. I can only imagine how much more stuff they've added. The things have active roll control which is basically sensors and hydraulic shocks to counter act body roll. The old cruise control will now come to a complete stop behind the car in front of you and then accelerate back to speed or to speed of the car in front of it and maintain a safe distance. They now have active head lights, meaning they are designed to shine farther out the faster you go, literally shine around curves and turns, and even have a country road option where the passenger side tends to shine to the edge of the road more to find deer/wildlife. The suv's also have a collision sensor system, meaning in the event the vehicle senses a possible collision, the widows are rolled up completely seat belts are tightened, and sunroof shut. I know it's not exactly what you are saying, but everything the high end car makers do does trickle down to lesser brands over time. ABS and tire pressure monitors are just two examples. Direct injection is also a trickle down technology. BMW actually uses an alternator with a clutch like an ac compressor to only charge the battery when it's needed or convenient for fuel savings. Electric powersteering is another fuel saver that's being used. The tech is there, just not where your looking. Personally, some of this stuff is just more nannies to make lazy disconnected drivers worse. I'd love to disable the traction control on my new Ranger.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #8  
Old 06-22-2012, 07:31 AM
Compression Ignition Addict
 

Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,075
Thanks: 0
Thanked 18 Times in 18 Posts
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
well what changes do you want to see?
engine configuration, its already been tried, they go with the ones that work most efficiently. as far as keeping the same block why the heck change if its working. improve combustion chamber design add FI , upgrade to port FI, or DI, improve piston design, use better materials, improve precision of machining(tighter tolerances) while the parts in a 57 350 chevy will fit into a 1990 block, very few people would consider the old parts to be anything but a huge leap backwards.
what else do you want electric, hybrid yup we got those too,alternate fuels yup. all of them are fringe applications because they have huge weaknesses that limit their use. or are you hoping for a car/truck with totally new yet unheard of undreamed of technology, maybe it will run on happy thoughts and rainbow stew
an alternate to alternators? hm then probably will require a breakthrough in electrical theory at the physics level akin to nuclear theory. I have heard of a hybrid turbo that has a very powerful motor/alternator in the center section. as a motor it draws power mostly to way reduce spool up time, and then instead of opening vanes to reduce excessive boost it starts charging the battery
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Ford Powerstroke Diesel Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
If you do not want to register, fill this field only and the name will be used as user name for your post.
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 10:21 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.1
Garage Plus, Vendor Tools vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.

vB.Sponsors