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Need a lesson.....powerstroke 101

2K views 7 replies 6 participants last post by  NCHornet 
#1 ·
I'm beginning to suspect that my local diesel shop was licking its chops when I came to them with my Ex and told them it was my first Ford and my first diesel...and I was not a DIY guy when it came to cars.

You can see from my sig that I gave them pretty much carte blanche with my stock rig. I am quite naive when it comes to chips, programmers, etc. and many have said I should get rid of the Juice and put in a chip, etc. Now I don't want to to start dumping and modding again unless it is affordable

I am not interested in flaming kids at green lights. My primary goal is to enhance towing performance in the very mountainous area in which I travel and live. This is not a daily driver. I came off a '99 K2500 7.4 gasser with which I had all kinds of dinky (and costly) problems with marginal performance, and which was approaching 175K miles....getting real tired. It did the job but really labored on some of the mountain passes I tackled. I hope to cure these problems with the Ex.

I don't know what I am supposed to expect with the Juice, especially since I have never towed without the Juice. I put it in the tow mode (position 2) and it handles the climbs with no downshifting and seeming little effort, so it seems that I am getting what I paid for. I have added a tranny gauge and the temps are quite acceptable on the climbs. I just returned from a 300 mile test run , combination of freeway 6% grades to 7K' and two lane sustained climb to 10,750'. I was quite pleased with the performance. The tranny did get to 210 momentarily at the summit of the big one, but stayed below 190 otherwise....acceptable to me.

I probably did not need any mods from the outset, but here I am. Maybe someone can tell me the basic difference between a chip and a programmer and which, if any, would be best in my situation. Can the Juice be easily removed? Is there a market for used Juice? Should it be replaced with a chip? Or should I just leave it in.

This is an interesting and certainly informative forum, but not always geared to the novice, albeit a 71 year old novice. You guys use too many acronyms that mean little to me....until I look them up, and then they still don't mean much to me. All sage advice will be appreciated
 
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#2 · (Edited)
If its working for you, then run with it. My wife has an 01 Excursion with a 6" lift, 37's and chip-intake-exhaust-turbo...

Runs great, but if you are happy with the performance, a chip will only improve shifting and MAX hp a bit over what you have now. Try looking for a Valve body for the tranny, it will firm up the shifts and keep the temps down a bit. Also look for a TC lock up kit, eather one that is a plug and play or a DIY. Lock the TC up any time you are above 30 MPH and that will help both pulling power and tranny temps.

Where is your EGT probe? Did they install it pre turbo (in the exhaust manifold) or post turbo (in the downpipe after the turbo)? What were your MAX readings for both boost and EGT's?
 
#3 ·
Hey Mutt,

I still consider myself a diesel novice. I've only owned my rig for a little over a year. I can't offer a lot of help, but I'll try.

RE: chips vs. programmers. Chips (Tony Wildman and DP-Tuner, sorry about the acronym there, I don't know what DP stands for either) are generally considered to be the best for performance and overall health of your rig. You can get them custom tuned to just your rig and whatever your modifications are. The beauty of chips is you can change the power right now with the push of a button or a turn of a knob. It doesn't sound like that's a big to-do, but when you hook up whatever you're towing, it's nice to not have to fiddle with plugging in a reflashing your PCM (powertrain control module). Then when you arrive at your destination, unhook the trailer, push a button and you're back to econo mode or whatever with a chip. Programmers require a reflash on the PCM.

Another nice thing about chips is that you can select MANY different tunes to choose from . I'm obviously a DP fan since I bought one. I suggest checking out their website and looking at all of the options for programs you can buy. Your Prowler weighs in at 7,500. You can get a program just for that. Oh, I also forgot a major point of the chips: They are usually considered better at keeping your egt's (exhaust gas temperature, your diesel's enemy) down. Lower EGT's = more fuel = more towing power which is the whole point of this, right? Plus, you generally get better mileage with the chips vs no chip or just a programmer. Example: I just put my chip in last week. The overhead fuel computer before the chip read about 14-15. Now in the 80 horse econo mode, it reads 19 MPG. I know the overhead displays aren't totally right, but that's a big increase, and big power, and chip program adjustability on the fly.

With any chip/programmer you absolutely MUST get guages. At the very minimum an EGT guage or you'll end up cooking the engine. Don't even mess around there.

Back to chips vs programmers. I don't know exactly how they work, but chips have stored programs in them, you just select the program you want. Programmers actually change the only program your PCM. Your programmer will contain different programs in it, and you basically load that program into your PCM. It takes a few minutes. Not a big deal, but it does require an inflight shutdown and all that.

Chips with guages also will cost a little more, but just do it. The power they make is just insane. And it's good and useable power. It may not seem like it, but I researched (and saved money) for an entire year before I made my decision to by a chip. I was going to buy an Edge Evolution (which I've heard a lot of good things and some bad about) but the guages get their info from the PCM. I don't think you can trick the PCM as easily with those. They are less expensive because the guages are built in, but the power and EGT's arent' as good.

Your sig says you have the Juice w/attitude. I think those are shift on the fly, but it still is not burned to just your rig, tire size, exhaust, and towing application. I know the Juice is a good unit, but I think the general consensus is that the chips are better. I'm sure some guys with more experience will chime in soon.

You rambled, I rambled, hope this helps...

Rob
 
#4 ·
Thanks for the info, guys. I believe I was told that a Valve body is not an option for my tranny for some reason. Could this be true? Not sure what a TC lock-up kit is, but I'll look into it.

Yes, the Juice can be changed on the fly, so that is comparable to chip operation as I understand it. I have only had a couple of issues to date. When I am not towing and I shift into 5 (extreme) I have all kinds of power, or at least as much as I want or need, but it immediately shows (throws?) a code P1211 (or at least the SES light comes on...I have since learned that it's a code P1211). I understand that I can spend a lot of $$$ and fix this with a fancy oil pump. And, it seems to have put my Lie-O-Meter out of business, which is no great loss. It seems to be stuck on 11.5.

My EGT, even under the extreme towing conditions mentioned above, have never been over about 1200 and seldom that high. Don't know whether this is good or bad.

Still open to advice and ideas. Thanks much, this is a great forum.
 
#5 ·
Crawl under the truck and take a peak at the drivers side exhaust manifold. Look for something like the pic. If its not there, look at the turbo outlet pipe (down pipe).

I have a feeling your pyro probe is in the down pipe, which if it is should be moved and until then use 1050-1100 as your red line.
 

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#7 ·
I have the same truck and programmer, the SES will come on untill you have driven in each postion on your programmer, then it will go out. I have mine set on 3 and get about 18-19 mpg all of the time. Took trip from So Cal to Idaho and got 21.9 mpg average. Yes I did the real math not just the lie-o-meter. I only use th 5 extreme postion when I want to smoke somebody.
 
#8 ·
Welcome,
The 1211 code doesn't hurt a thing!!! It is simply your injectors asking for more oil pressure and fuel than what your system can deliver, when this is out of spec for more than 7 sec it triggers the 1211 code. A chip and a tuner are simply two different ways of enjoying the same tunes. I myself don't need switch on the fly as I stay in one tune 95% of the time, a chip gives you the switch on the fly capability. You also risk all the problems that occur when a chip comes loose ot the contacts don't get cleaned enough etc..... I have seen them cause some weird stuff. I myself prefer not to open the PCM, WHICH = NO SIGNS OF MORE PONIES BEING ADDED!!! My SCT X2 programmer also gave me a code reader which has come in very handy. I can store 3 programs on my programmer and the rest I keep on my laptop and swith them if needed, which isn't often. Used programmers aren't selling for much $100=$150 . A valvebody whould be a good idea, I like the FTVB by Greg Evans, just google FTVB to find it, or the BTS is also a good one. Redline for your EGT's is 1250 for sustained but short bursts to 1350-1400 is okay but not sustained. Any other ? feel free to PM me.

NCH
 
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