Hello, I’m fairly new to this forum. I’ve done a lot of reading, but not a lot of posting. There is ton of great info here, so “thanks” to everyone who has contributed.
I picked up my first 6.0 about two months ago with the intention of pulling a 5th wheel camper with it. It’s a 2006 F350 CC dually. It looked and ran good. The OASIS report that I got from this site checked out. No major issues. My question is about upgrades though. I haven’t done anything to the truck yet other than add an Edge Insight so I can monitor what is going on. So far EOT and ECT have stayed around 7-9 degrees difference. There was one time when the difference got to 15 degrees while towing my 5th wheel, but it was just for a few seconds going up a hill. Not sure if that is anything to be concerned about though. I’m planning on installing a coolant filter, bypass oil filter, egt probe, fuel pressure gauge, and Magnaflow exhaust, along with doing the Zoodad mod. I just want to keep eye on everything and keep it clean and cool. Does anyone see anything out of line with that combo? I would also like to put a mild tune to it, but I’m unsure if it’s a good idea. I’ve seen some folks say that you want to stud the engine before tuning, but is that really necessary? I don’t abuse my trucks and I don’t want a hot rod. I’m looking for a good, reliable towing vehicle. I thought about getting an SCT with a towing tune. What do you guys think?
The 15* delta concerns me a bit. Since it was during a climb, it might be explained away, but during normal driving it is still 7-9* off. It should be closer than that - more like 3-5*. At any rate, you bought your truck for the exact same reason that I did. I wanted it to be a reliable tow vehicle for pulling my 5th wheel trailer. Your ideas sound really good for improving reliability in your tow vehicle. Depending on how heavy your trailer is and since you don't have head studs, I would consider a stock replacement tune that turns off your EGR valve. You might consider talking to Matt@Gearhead Automotive about tunes. (I have a stock replacement-called Unlimited Tow-that I use during the summer months when I tow here in the desert of AZ). Also be aware that an oil bypass filtration system will not allow you to increase your oil change intervals since the injectors shear the oil down too quickly. I change my oil at 5k intervals religiously. I just don't want to risk damaging injectors or engine components because I wanted to run the oil for just a little bit longer.
The momentary delta like that is nothing to be too concerned with, as long as you're normally operating below a 15* spread.
Welcome to the ORG, by the way.
That Insight is the first big step in towing with the 6.0L confidently. The short list you have planned will work for towing, you won't need a seperate gauge for fuel pressure though. Edge has their expansion system out now, make you get the expandable EGT probe, and get the fuel pressure form Edge. It will make for a cleaner install to your Insight.
Wanting a little more peice of mind, get a flush and swap over to a silicate-free ELC. Rebuild your oil cooler (ensures all silicate build up is out of your system) and solve the EGR cooler issue with either a deletion, or the BPD upgraded cooler.
I really like my SCT tuner, had it for about two weeks now. There are tunes that are safer (not bullet-proof, but relatively safe) for stock bolt trucks. Make sure who ever does your tuning knows your mods and running stock bolts.
I ran IDP's Street tune up till now and saw a 10% increase in mileage my first tank. I don't recommend the economy tunes for mileage, go with a good street tune and keep your foot off it. As for towing, I found the tuned shifted and exhaust brake is much better and firmer than stock. Can't wait to pull something with it.
Let us know how you decide to proceed, and if you have any questions, just ask.
Since you have a 2006 I wouldn't worry about it to much. It sounds like you want what I wanted just alittle more umph for towing. I haven't towed my camper yet with my tune. I have mine on the tow tune and notice a gain in HP, but I doubt it would be that much of a difference to damage the headgaskets. I think headgaskets get done more often than needed. Its a good preventative if yours have failed, but I believe the temperature differential coupled with egr cooler failure allowing coolant in caused by the blocked oil cooler is more to blame than the stock headgaskets and studs. Many run high hp tunes with stock headgaskets without problems. If your not going to run high horsepower ones I wouldnt worry. An extra 60hp isn't going to do it in my opinion unless you just beat the crap out of it. As long as your monitoring stuff and keep an eye on it while your towing you should be fine. Just my opinion.
Oh yeah and the spike in delta not a huge deal under load. Just as long as it comes down. if its not moving neither is your coolant. The only thing that would concern me is if you still have Ford Gold in there. If not then I wouldnt worry.
You guys are right. I’m looking for a little more power, hopefully some efficiency, and something reliable. I don’t want to be constantly stuck on the side of the road. My 5’er weighs in the ballpark of 11,500lbs also. By the looks of the replies, I don’t think I’m going too crazy with anything. I didn’t think about injectors shearing the oil down, so maybe an oil bypass wouldn’t be worth the money. I use synthetic oil if that makes any difference. I did plan on buying the add on from Edge to monitor fuel pressure and I already have the expandable EGT probe, just haven’t installed it yet. I still have the Ford Gold coolant in the truck. I’ve read a lot about changing to ELC. I figured I might do that in July after my 5yr/100K warranty is up. Would it be critical to change to ELC immediately? Does it make that much of a difference? The upgraded EGR cooler or a delete would definitely be considered in conjunction with a tune that turns the EGR off like Evil Eye mentioned. All good suggestions, so thank you guys. I have about a month until we take a long trip from Central TX to East TN, so I want to make sure my rig is in top shape. This info will definitely help in upgrading in a logical sequence.
Also something to consider.. When I was looking for ELC for my truck at the international dealer. I asked about the Ford Gold coolant silicates he said "All I can tell you is that we run Fleetrite ELC in it and thats all we recommend I cant say anything else"
And the last time I was at the Ford dealer and was discussing this with them they said well the Ford Gold coolant is now only rated for 50k and you need an additive after that.. All the ford dealer kept saying was you need to change the coolant at 50k anything beyond and it needs a an additive. I asked about the silicates clogging the cooler. He avoided that as well kept saying all I can say is that we recommend Ford Gold for 50k. mmmm why the change to 50k from 100k.. So I would get it out immediately. My truck at 62k had a plugged oil cooler I have cut it open and plan on sending the goo to get tested.
I Believe both Ford and International know that this is the problem now. I believe because international didn't specifically tell them that the Ford Gold wouldnt work in fact I bet they said its ratings are ok was the reason for the lawsuit.. I bet in the test engines it was ELC not Ford Gold. That is all speculation, but its funny how both my local dealers avoided the question when I asked about the silicates.
Just FYI. I know others say nothing wrong with the Ford Gold, but I disagree 100%.
The mangaflow exhasut is an expensive exhasut. There are many chaper exhaust systems that will perform the same with out consern. You can get a 4" turbo back for $250-$300. I have links if you want them.
Tuning is a good idea but not a MAJOR deal.
Cleaning the cooling system by doing a flush procedure will be a very good idea.
Keep the oil changes under 6,000miles with stadard oil. under 7,500miles with syn.
Egr delete would be best.
I am currently doing an 8,000mile sample of mobil 1 5w-40 diesel engine oil with my bypass filter. I will be posting the results in a month or so.
I tow my 10,000lb 5th wheel with innovative "Street" tune with out any issues. I am very happy with that tune towing and as a DD.
How many miles are on your truck? You may want to clean the intake manifold from the EGR build up.
Trans fluid chagne????? If you need to do it, look at my sig.
The mangaflow exhasut is an expensive exhasut. There are many chaper exhaust systems that will perform the same with out consern. You can get a 4" turbo back for $250-$300. I have links if you want them.
Tuning is a good idea but not a MAJOR deal.
Cleaning the cooling system by doing a flush procedure will be a very good idea.
Keep the oil changes under 6,000miles with stadard oil. under 7,500miles with syn.
Egr delete would be best.
I am currently doing an 8,000mile sample of mobil 1 5w-40 diesel engine oil with my bypass filter. I will be posting the results in a month or so.
I tow my 10,000lb 5th wheel with innovative "Street" tune with out any issues. I am very happy with that tune towing and as a DD.
How many miles are on your truck? You may want to clean the intake manifold from the EGR build up.
Trans fluid chagne????? If you need to do it, look at my sig.
Have you datalogged EOT while towing your 5th wheel using the Street tune? I would imagine that your oil temps are quite hot, especially towing during summertime pulling a grade. Just because you can doesn't mean that you should AND just because you haven't seen an issue doesn't mean that you don't have issues.
FordWake the first link didn’t reference the Ford Gold issue and the second link didn’t work at all. I’ve read a good bit about the issue. It just seems like there hasn’t been a definitive answer as to which is better even though the guys running ELC seem to be much happier with their systems. I’ll look into this topic more and see what I can find. Ironically enough, I had a very similar conversation with my local Ford dealership. The tech kept talking about testing strips and making sure the silicate level was correct and using additives if needed. It sounds like a good course of action over the next couple of weeks would be to flush the coolant system and then do something about the EGR cooler. Seems like it would probably be worthwhile to rebuild the oil cooler while I have it apart??? Make sense to anyone? Cleaning the intake makes sense too. I just rolled over 61K the other day, so I would imagine it is probably due for it. Tranny fluid will be done shortly also. Good write-up on that SmokerSteve.
If you guys have some good links for exhausts, please post them. I’m all about saving a few dollars. Anyone know a good place to pick up an oil cooler rebuild kit cheap?
Its your truck so if you choose to run Ford Gold I am not going to flog you for it or anything. I do however think it is part if not most of the problem. All the evidence suggests that too. The international parts guy said thats all they put in them is Fleetrite ELC and the Ford Service manager said that you have to add additive. So I switched not to have to mess with additive or flushing as often.
I also would upgrade turbo infeed, turbo drain, Fuel pressure spring, and check to make sure you don't have an STC fitting since yours is an 06. If it does then I would change that as well. update the HPOP screen if you do the oil cooler.. mmm thats about it.
If your temps aren't bad its up to you whether to not to rebuild your cooler.. I would and I also wouldn't do it if I was going to put Ford Gold Back either.. so up to you.
Good to hear. Like you, I always datalog when I'm towing (using AutoEnginuity) and I've seen some serious EOT's even just using my tow tune, but it gets REALLY hot here in summertime.
I have seen 235* at times with my extreme tow tune at the end of a long steep grade with outside temps about 110*. Usually, the more powerful your tunes (more fuel), the higher your EOT's, particularly if you aren't going very fast to offload that heat into the coolant and into the outside air via the radiator. You need to be cruising pretty good to offload that amount of heat into the atmosphere.
So now that the temp topic has been brought up, I'll throw my numbers out there to see how they compare. Normal highway speed driving sees EOT at around 210 and ECT between 200-205. It increased a good bit when I started towing the 5th wheel. EOT around 220 and ECT was around 210. Does this look like it might be a problem in conjunction with with the 15 degree difference I mentioned earlier? I read before that my temps were a little outside of what is considered normal. Any thoughts?
SmokerSteve, do you have those exhaust links handy?
Extreme tow is more aggressive fueling and is usually for towing light trailers, about 60-80hp increase from stock. Matt's 8k tow tune would be an example. Vivian calls hers Aggressive Tow.
The big thing with aggressive tuning while towing is the slipping of the torque converter in city traffic. It increases the tranny temps considerably. Once up to speed, it's probably just fine. I have A LOT of city traffic to get through before I get out of town and my trailer is about 2k lbs heavier so I definitely wouldn't do it.
If slipping was the issue then wouldn't the fix be to increase the TC pressure on the clutches?
Or is it the intense strain on the TC that decreases the longevity.
From my experienc with the ELC Flush I would put in ELC Coolant and see if it don't solve your Delta temperature at the oil cooler.
I am doing 2 of my friends soon and that is what I want to do, after the garbage I flushed out of mine that plugged the cooler.
I have been programed for the last 4 years and realy would not tow my 15K RV without it. Even on level 1 it gives the truck enough boost to feel comfortable pulling.
I tried stock for a small trip and I could not finish it, I got so fedup that I reprogramed it for comfort in the hills. Also looking at the gas gauge dropping much faster then I was accustomed to. I just returned from Florida last week, a 2200 mile trip and did it on level 3 and 2 and on cruise all the time.
Just installed the Edge Insight and a coolant filter system. Found out that my FICM is shot, volts only 24V - 27V when cold then jumps around until the motor is fully warmed up. Truck is running fine and starts without problems, but I did order a FICM from Swamps which should be here later this week. My ECT/EOT temps look very good, but 2006 F250 only has less than 43,000 miles on it and the coolant has been changed at 21,000 and 40,000 due to the motor being pulled twice to fix oil leaks. (under warranty fortunately!) I will be pulling my 10,000lb 5th wheel this weekend and will be keeping a close eye on the temps. Should I be in a big hurry to change to ELC coolant? I have a hypertech max econ programmer that I want to install, but have had to wait since I have the P0611 code that won't clear until I change the FICM. There are two levels of tune. Does anybody have any experience using this tuner while pulling a trailer? Could I use the "B" tune which is 88 hp increase?
Level A and B while towing is great and possibly equal. The difference is with no load on mine its much better on B for higher RPM's
I have upgraded to Level 3 and found it realy rocks and even spins the rear wheel with the trailer hooked up on take off.
While towing in cruise the levels A and B work great to stay on in the hills and it takes a long hill at 6% before it looses enough speed to kick off. But on Level 3 the cruise will kick off even it never looses speed in the hill. I feel it is the high EGT's that causes the cruise to kick off. So I prefer level 2 for towing comfortably.
I had to stop for fuel at exit one on 84 north bound at Port Jarvis NY last week and after fueling I had to merge on the Intersate 84 at about 20MPH. Well I merged just in front of a Ram with a similar Heartland trailer as mine (15K weight). By the time I crested the hill the ram was real small in my mirrors and I was going 55MPH on 4th gear, or high gear. I figured the ram was having a hard time doing the hill and loosing speed while I was gaining all along, and the truck Coolant never got high enough to kick the fan on.
Dan, no need to rush and change the coolant. Your system is most likely better then many out there for it was changed tweice with in 40,000miles.
Definietly keep an eye on the difference between ect and eot. I would say if you get pas 15 for a -long period- of time, there may be an issue.
I have a 2006 F350 6.0 and tow a 13500 lb 5th wheel trailer. I just made a trip from northern Virginia to Orlando Fl and was getting 8-9 mpg. I-95 for most of the trip, no big hills and doing the speed limit (70 mph) most of the time. The only mod I have done to my truck is a 4inch turbo back exhaust, no cat and a Edge insight cs. My temps and everything are fine and no problems with my truck. I am thinking of running innovative diesel tunes and do not plan on adding head studs anytime soon. The truck only has 38000 miles on it and I only use it for towing this camper. Would this help my MPG or is it too great a risk of blowing up my truck?
Driving a 6.0L with gold coolant is like driving with low pressure in your tires.
It only gets worrst over time. And never know when it will need repairs.
zoodad mod was very easy and very affective. It just like having a cold air intake on your truck. You can buy aftermarkert air filter and use the same housing but change the filter. Sounds good
I've been busy the past few days, but I have read all the posts. A lot of good info contributed by you guys, so thanks. Based on the reading I've done, I ordered a Diamond Eye 4" turbo back exhaust, a Sinister basic solution kit (egr delete, oil cooler rebuild kit, and gaskets), and an SCT tuner to make the egr delete work out a little better. I'll be working on putting that stuff on when I get it. I'm hoping this will help with temps. I pulled my 5th wheel out to a campground (where I am currently) and the temps on the highway seemed high to me. EOT maxed at 229 (220 was about average) and ECT maxed at 218 (213 was about average). Isaw the most extreme spread on the highway seeing 15-16 deg deltas for a few seconds from time to time. I think my oil cooler could use some work, but I'm not positive. Funny thing is that the slower driving pulling short steep highs resulted in low oil and coolant temps. Seems odd to me. Is that normal?
You need to replace your oil cooler. Once you do, the difference in oil temp and coolant temp will be much closer and your running temps will run a bit cooler.
Dave, I think you might be responding to a quote directed at someone else. My truck is bone stock. I'm not running a tune at all yet. I got an SCT tuner to see how things go, but it was more to turn off the egr valve function.
I have noted a 2 deg differencial at startup on my gauges. They should both read the same so I concluded that the reading might be off on one of them. But is off at higher temperature, well I just concluded it is.
So your readings might just be off a bit making the EOT higher then normal.
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