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any h&s pukers ouy there

4K views 36 replies 10 participants last post by  superdutydixie 
#1 ·
i have spartan tunes and run the 275 and 210 tunes,i have puked a handful of times with the 275 never with the 210 .i can beat the hell out of it on the 210 and never puke ,sometimes i will puke on 275 while driving rather calmly,with boost levels and egt's lower than what i see with 210,i am beginning to believe it may be a problem with the tune.my question is has anyone had puking issues with the h&s big tunes.i have not seen any posts about h&s puking anywhere,and there tuning is just as radical as spartan.if the h&s has not puked then why?could it be the harsh converter lockuo i seem to have with the 275,it sounds like my intake is gasping for air when converter locks up,i love the 275 as a daily driver but am getting tired of cleaning my engine.
 
#2 ·
If your puking all the time, your Head Gaskets are probably shot. Have you checked the Degas bottle cap to make sure it is the latest one? The newest one is all black with some writing, and the old one has a white sticker on it. The newer one clicks down much tighter.
 
#5 ·
Puking is caused from pressure in the cooling system pushing the coolant within the degas bottle out of the top around the cap. The cause of this is usually blown head gaskets, but in some cases its the EGR cooler flash boiling.
 
#9 ·
i have a job 3 08 harley i ran the 275 for about two or three months before the first puke and have puked a total of about 6 times,none being that bad(just a little spray around the cap)i purchased the block off plates but never put them in because i heard they might not be good.i cant understand why i would puke on 275 when i am not beating on it and can romp on it with 210 and nothing.anyone puke with the 250?i just got my liscence for the 250 and am thinking of running that,but i love the 275
 
#10 ·
Drive pressure is really high with these tunes. If your gaskets were weak from the get go, there is potential for puking. I see 71 psi drive (back pressure) max with the 275 tune. That is also what I see with the 310 and 350 tune as well. I puked before I got updated gaskets on my truck 11,600 miles ago. I have beat on my truck with the 275 (daily driver) and the 350 tune, and I don't even have pressure in the cooling system with the new gasket design.....also on stock head bolts.
 
#13 ·
Its going to happpen on any of them. The reason you hear about more Spartan tuned trucks puking is because there are a lot more Spartan tuned trucks and Spartan has been around longer. It is pretty hard to keep drive pressure below 70 psi on these bigger tunes that shut off the EGR valve. Tunes that have the EGR valve cycling normally will have lower drive pressure, almost a 1:1 ratio boost to drive. Some trucks are somehow holding up better than others.....its basically hit and miss with these trucks on head gasket issues.
 
#14 ·
Thanks for reply! I understand what your saying about hearing more about the spartan guys puking since there is way more of them. Are the 2010 head gaskets any better than say a 2008? Or is it still in the same category of hit and miss.

The drive pressure refers to back pressure on the turbo right? basically the amount of pressure that is being forced from spinning the turbo? Sorry for my ignorance on this topic, I have read it a lot in multiple threads but it was never clearly explained.
 
#15 ·
I have 11,600 miles on new gaskets and I have had no pressure in my cooling system daily driving the 275 tune, and some pretty hard runs with the 350 tune as well. I have hit 71 psi drive quite a few times and no puking, no coolant level movement, and no pressure. I think there have been like 6 or 7 revisions to the gasket design since the first build date trucks.

As for drive pressure, it is exhaust back pressure, and it puts pressure on the motor. There is a difference between the pressure applied on the turbo's and drive pressure. The pressure on the turbo's when you let off the throttle is called compressor surge. Drive pressure is created while your in the throttle increasing boost. The pressure doesn't have a place to release itself (EGR disabled and no wastegate) so it builds up in the motor and can lift the heads off the block....which will blow head gaskets quickly. :nod:
 
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#16 ·
Is there a way to give rep on this forum? That post was rep worthy.

I understand compressor surge, but thanks for explaining the drive pressure and turbo pressure difference I believe I understand what your saying now. That is so crazy to think that the heads will actually lift from the block. That has to be an insane amount of pressure. I noticed you said you have gotten 71 psi drive pressure before, I'm going to assume this is at the absolute upermost limit of what the motor can handle before catastrophic failure? Thanks again for explaining that.
 
#17 ·
71 psi isn't a limit, its just all I can get. I think others have seen more than that with EGR blocker plates. But yes, 71 psi drive at 45 psi of boost isn't good at all. Boost and drive pressur need to be as close to a 1:1 ratio as possible. This is only achievable on the 6.4 with the use of a wastegate to control drive pressure. And yes, it is crazy to think that there can be enough pressure to lift the heads, but it can happen. It may not happen the first couple of times extreme drive pressure is experienced, but after awhile the head will eventually lift. With the Spartan tuner, the EGR is enabled on the 175 and under tunes. The EGR actually was designed to act like a wastegate on these trucks, but on the higher tunes the EGR is disabled to prevent the internals from getting gummed up from all of the soot recirculation going on with the EGR. Therefore that wastegate like option is no longer there. This is where the need for an external wastegate comes in. :thumb:
 
#18 ·
Great info, so even the Spartan 210 tune runs risk of excessive drive pressure? The fact that the egr is acting like a waste gate at lower levels would make me want to run a smaller tune in order to keep from lifting the heads. So a wastegate set up will almost eliminate any worry about excessive drive pressure?
 
#19 ·
It is doubtful that anyone would lift the head with the 210, or the 250 for that matter. The 275 tune is where you start seeing a few more trucks with head gasket issues, and then the 310 its pretty common. The biggest issues is part throttle pressure on the low end, basically higher RPM's at lower speeds while going through the gears. Top end seems to be fine (less than 2:1 ratio drive to boost....typically), but bottom end you will see 70+ psi of drive at only 25-30 psi of boost. A wastegate setup will lower drive pressure enough to prevent excess pressure build up in your motor.
 
#20 ·
So even towing something heavy with the 210 there isnt much concern for lifting the heads or puking? Also is drive pressure monitored via the dashdaq or do you need a separate gauge for that. I have read that it is pretty easy to "bark" these turbos, have you seen any of them come apart from getting compressor stall? I only have 290 miles on the truck now and I am pretty sure I got them to "bark" which was surprising coming from a stock truck, but I had the music up so it was a little difficult to tell.
 
#21 ·
Yes, drive pressure can be monitored with the DashDAQ. It is labeled I believe EBP Absolute. I wouldn't worry about it with the 210 tune. There have been guys towing and daily driving the 210 tune for 3 years now with no problems. Compressor surge is bad, but to be honest I have barked my turbo's no telling how many times in 50,000 miles and I have never had turbo troubles since I have my Spartan tuner. These turbo's are STOUT :nod:

If your worried about compressor surge, you could always install a blow off valve. It releases the pressure applied on the turbo's and it sounds cool while its doing it lol.

Forgot to mention, when monitoring the exhaust back pressure, you have to subtract barometric pressure from the number you get. You can go in the DashDAQ and look at what barometric pressure is where you are and then use that number to subtract from your pressure reading. Barometric pressure here where I am in 14, so when I hit 85.6 psi of EBP, it is really 71.6 psi of EBP.
 
#22 ·
Good to hear these turbo's can take a beating :) who manufactures them? A blow off valve would be great for its purpose but I feel the sound is better suited for a subby STi haha.

I will have to keep the barometric pressure subtraction in mind. What is your elevation?
 
#28 ·
ok , ive heard that H&S is coming out with there own egr delete. Is spartan? Also would getting new turbos eliminate the puking issue. I mean a dirty diesel kit is up there and might just be the same price as some new turbos.. My buddy has the H&S tuner.. runs the old hot damn tune.. He hasent puked but his coolant level is really low.. def going somewhere>
 
#29 ·
Spartan does not have a wastegate in the works. Tuning on the big tunes is already designed for both the Elite and Dirty Diesel EGR delete's that include the wastegate. Putting bigger aftermarket turbo's on is going to increase drive pressure even more. More boost without a wastegate is going to REALLY increase drive. You would have to install studs and a wastegate to run bigger turbo's.
 
#31 ·
well what would the cost of new turbos with a internal wasegate run? Also that might be another reason for people to get the H&S that dont want to go crazy. Cause i heard the egr delete from H&S is going to be pretty cheap.(compared to elites or dirtydiesel.)
 
#33 ·
well what would the cost of new turbos with a internal wasegate run? Also that might be another reason for people to get the H&S that dont want to go crazy. Cause i heard the egr delete from H&S is going to be pretty cheap.(compared to elites or dirtydiesel.)
Check out Elite's website. They have pricing available there :thumb:

- Elite Diesel -
 
#34 ·
do the towpower compound have a internal wasegate? As far as price goes. new turbos would be just as expensive as the dirty diesel kit. Would this solve the problem if they had a internal wastegate?
 
#36 ·
No internal wastegate on the turbo's from what I understand. That is why most people that go with them put the BD Power blow off valve on the truck to reduce compressor surge. They are just modified stock turbo's. The external wastegate is the only option out there for drive pressure relief.

Yes and no. Depends if you get correctly sized turbos. A set with the proper sized exhaust housing will lower your DP and possibly increase your boost. Right now I am running 64psi boost and only see 70 psi DP. Granted it is a completely different truck but the turbos are sized properly for what I want to do. These electronic companies keep comming out with better and better tunes and people keep slapping them on trucks without thinking if the truck can handle it. The tunes have gotten so strong the small twins are way over fueled.
There are only modified stockers on the market. And from what I hear, you better not go to them without studs and an EGR delete/wastegate setup. The fact that the EGR is disabled on the 6.4 prevents any kind of back pressure relief on the bigger tunes....and the only other way to get the relief at this point is to go with a wastegate kit or go to a big single turbo like dzchey21 did (Powerstroke Nation moderator) He sees 45 boost with 55 drive. Not a bad ratio when compared to stock turbo drive to boost ratios.
 
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